Fsu recruiting

[calinative umstudent]

Maybe Players deserve to get paid at a public schools but not at any private school. I can understand saying that covering tuition at a public university that only costs about $20-30k total to go to, they might deserve to get a little something, but Definitely NOT at any private university. At Miami, they are getting like $60k a year to play football, most of whom don't even start.
However paying student athletes will end up being waaay too unfair. I mean, honestly you could say a backup, that never starts a game, isn't even worth that 60K tuition he gets at UM. And only a superstar player would be worth that much/more. But then, if you allow any school to pay their players it creates a recruiting advantage for those schools. I mean the price Miami pays for all their student athletes is probably twice as much as FSU/UF.

 

[Canes2082]

Who's to say this dude didn't just cash his paycheck and decided to try and look cool and post it ? yal gotta chill. now if they start posting pics of new cars and electronics, there might be something to b**** about

.... **** I would have love to have whatever job they have when I was in high school cause that's more than a few hundred bucks

 

[RohanMotor]

but we have Canes cookie on their OV's......

Fify

 

[kmwcane]

What is wrong with letting the market determine what their skills are worth? Why should they work for a reduced rate? I don't want to work for a reduced rate, do you?

Nice argument, totally mindless BS, but nice!

Why is it mindless BS? Please explain.

Thanks for asking, it shows a desire to discuss.

It's mindless because it's boilerplate without an ounce of originality. It's mindless because the consequences aren't considered. It's mindless because there is nothing preventing the creation of a pro league that fills the slot between HS football and the NFL. It's mindless because if the market is the determinant, the market has already determined that there is no commercial value to setting up such a league or it would be already be done (see minor league baseball). It's mindless because it assumes the infrastructure developed since Rutgers College first played the College of New Jersey should be donated for the economic benefit of such a minor league. This doesn't cover all the reasons its mindless and there may be some debatable points, but it's mindless to propose one side of an equation without fully considering all of its complications.

Anyone who has paid for their college education would be inclined to disagree that football players are taken advantage of. They are not slaves to the school, they can leave, or go pro at their hearts, ability and market opportunity presents itself.

I do have an affinity for the notion that the NCAA is a parasite on the back of the schools and the players.

Nice to have a civil discussion about a topic.

A couple of points of disagreement:

1. I disagree strongly with your point about the market having determined the economic value of an individual football player. You state that no pro-league has filled the slot between high school and the NFL and thus the market has spoken. While that might be true, that has nothing to do with the economic value of each individual football player, which is the issue I'm discussing.

The lack of a pro league at this level is a separate issue entirely. I would argue that the market has indeed spoken and the value of a college football player is quite high. Just look at how much money college football generates. Yet because of the cartel that is the NCAA, the value of a football player cannot be determined because the NCAA does not allow it to operate. You might say that the value of the scholarship is enough but how can you be sure? Why should an arbitrary decision like that be made? How do you know a scholarship is the right compensation? The market could place the value higher or lower than the scholarship for all we know. But we don't know because the NCAA does not allow the market to operate and determine a player's economic value.

2. You note that the infrastructure should not be donated for economic benefit to a minor. I don't think anyone is advocating for any donation of infrastructure when they advocate for players getting paid (again, I'm not discussing the minor league system just the value of a player). I would argue that the college football infrastructure you speak of has been paid for many times over by this point. College football has generated so much money over its time span that I'm sure it is into the trillions of dollars.

3. You state that non-student athletes would disagree that athletes are being mistreated. That is fine but I don't understand what role non-student athletes have in determining the value of a student athlete. "Student" athletes offer more economic value than a normal student. That is just part of life; some people will have more economic value than others. Those with more skills should not be prevented from making their market value just because others do not have the same skills. As for leaving a school, they certainly cannot transfer where they would like (sitting out 1 year, restrictions on where they are allowed to transfer, etc...). And they cannot go to the NFL whenever they choose, they must wait until their junior year.

4. College football players are not amateurs. CFB is a business and despite noble notions to the contrary, amateurism went out the door long ago. The Ed O'Bannon case is doing a magnificent job of exposing this.

Thanks for the discussion. Lively, civil debate is one of the best ways to learn new things and look at things from all angles.

 

[kmwcane]

What is wrong with letting the market determine what their skills are worth? Why should they work for a reduced rate? I don't want to work for a reduced rate, do you?

Nice argument, totally mindless BS, but nice!

Why is it mindless BS? Please explain.

Thanks for asking, it shows a desire to discuss.

It's mindless because it's boilerplate without an ounce of originality. It's mindless because the consequences aren't considered. It's mindless because there is nothing preventing the creation of a pro league that fills the slot between HS football and the NFL. It's mindless because if the market is the determinant, the market has already determined that there is no commercial value to setting up such a league or it would be already be done (see minor league baseball). It's mindless because it assumes the infrastructure developed since Rutgers College first played the College of New Jersey should be donated for the economic benefit of such a minor league. This doesn't cover all the reasons its mindless and there may be some debatable points, but it's mindless to propose one side of an equation without fully considering all of its complications.

Anyone who has paid for their college education would be inclined to disagree that football players are taken advantage of. They are not slaves to the school, they can leave, or go pro at their hearts, ability and market opportunity presents itself.

I do have an affinity for the notion that the NCAA is a parasite on the back of the schools and the players.

Well stated. I worked for 40hrs a weeks to pay tuition, rent and feed myself. Nothing extra left over except some debt. I have no problem feeding them 7 days a week. If a small stipend is in order for gas and maybe dating-- well maybe. But remember what they are getting and the opportunity for pro career. Just because someone makes money off you does not mean you deserve more. I work for one of biggest companies in the world. It certainly makes a lot of money from mine and other efforts, but those efforts without the company around them would have no value at all. If today's players are going to get paid, then I want money too, because without my tuition years ago, they might not be here at all. The same is true for any who paid their way with hard earned cash.

IF we are ever going to pay them it should be only when and if they obtain their four year degree in something without the word "studies" in it. Then come talk to me. Otherwise they are getting free ride for playing a game while other work to pay to support it. Personally, I love my Canes, but I would rather shut down ALL college sports completely for a couple years. Then see what VALUE these high school kids have. Also would have nice the see impact on the colleges too -- maybe reduced salaries presidents and professors. What would all these genius coaches do for a living? Oh my, what about our mentors. Slave trader would have to carry his own cotton. All those stupid useless ESPN and network announcers would have to get real jobs at Walmark-- well except the hot chicks, they could always strip for a living.

Instead of paying players, lets find a way to take a bunch of all this money and give it to the fans who break their rears working to by tickets and beer to go watch the players. ***** the universities, players, coaches and networks, GIVE us some money.

Nice points. I just want to add a few counterpoints:

1. Again, I think it is a great testament to you as a person that you paid your way through college. But I fail to see how that should have any bearing on the economic value of a football player. Why should you, or the NCAA, be able to dictate the value of a player? Athletes just have a more valuable skillset. I know I certainly do not have the skills to play at that level so I shouldn't be compensated or valued as highly as them. It sucks but that is life. Some people are just going to be more valuable.

2. As for your point about working for your company and others making money from it. That is certainly true. However, the big difference here is that your individual value has been determined by the marketplace. A college football player's value has not. The NCAA cartel has placed an arbitrary and artificial value on their services and will not allow a market determination of their value (which based on college football revenues is quite high I can imagine). All I want is to see what their actual value is, not what the NCAA cartel dictates.

3. Again, while it is true they are getting a free ride, how do we know that is enough compensation? And as for them playing a game, the amateurism of college football went out the door a long time ago. It is a job for these players. "Student athlete" is long gone when it comes to college football.

4. Why should you get money as a fan? You are not out there playing, coaching, etc... I fail to see why a fan deserves money related to college football ahead of players, coaches, etc... Just don't buy tickets to the games, problem solved, money in the fans' pockets.

If it wasn't clear, I was not trying to be a jerk or snarky, just attempting to have a nice discussion about this topic.

 

[lauderdaleballer]

Miami needs to hire private detectives to catch some of these cheating schools in the act.

If we can't cheat, neither can anyone else. That is what I would do.

No we need to win and find players just as talented... We are not losing everyone due to money... That's becoming a lame excuse... We lost Snoop Minnis and Antonio Brysnt but we reeled in Moss, Wayne, King, AJ, etc. We can't say player A got paid and we were recruiting them to the final hour... If that was the case then that means we were in a bidding war as well...

 

[lauderdaleballer]

And they are just flashing their refund checks... Is that Phillips or Lane?

 

[maurice3p]

Pay the players! Even though they are gonna spend 70% of their money on weed, tattoos, & McDonald's

 

[tyrn]

Who's to say this dude didn't just cash his paycheck and decided to try and look cool and post it ? yal gotta chill. now if they start posting pics of new cars and electronics, there might be something to b**** about

If you believe that, your an idiot.

No high school kid has that kind of cash on them, especially when they live in the situations as these two without doing something illegal.

Oh and lets not forget that they are both wearing F$U gear while flashing it, could have been wearing anything else, but no they wanted to instagram the fact that they are getting paid to play for F$U and nobody can do **** about it.

 

[lauderdaleballer]

Who's to say this dude didn't just cash his paycheck and decided to try and look cool and post it ? yal gotta chill. now if they start posting pics of new cars and electronics, there might be something to b**** about

If you believe that, your an idiot.

No high school kid has that kind of cash on them, especially when they live in the situations as these two without doing something illegal.

Oh and lets not forget that they are both wearing F$U gear while flashing it, could have been wearing anything else, but no they wanted to instagram the fact that they are getting paid to play for F$U and nobody can do **** about it.

Huh? It's not that much money and that's quite an ignorant and stereotype assessment... Considering the circumstances... Cook has been on campus since spring and now it's the summer semester... Dude probably received a full allotment of his Pell grant which is like roughly$2800 ... If he received any other grant like 1st generation or etc. it's more... He's on a full ride so he doesn't have to pay for anything... And if he wants too he can take out a loan... For these athletes it's nothing for them to have access to about 10k through federal aid... And that's the spring, he got more money for the summer... The whole "I went to bed hungry" mantra is BS... At a big time school you're taken care of...

And if that's Lane he received his refund check as well... They are just being immature flashing their money...

 

[frozencane]

Who's to say this dude didn't just cash his paycheck and decided to try and look cool and post it ? yal gotta chill. now if they start posting pics of new cars and electronics, there might be something to b**** about

If you believe that, your an idiot.

No high school kid has that kind of cash on them, especially when they live in the situations as these two without doing something illegal.

Oh and lets not forget that they are both wearing F$U gear while flashing it, could have been wearing anything else, but no they wanted to instagram the fact that they are getting paid to play for F$U and nobody can do **** about it.

Huh? It's not that much money and that's quite an ignorant and stereotype assessment... Considering the circumstances... Cook has been on campus since spring and now it's the summer semester... Dude probably received a full allotment of his Pell grant which is like roughly$2800 ... If he received any other grant like 1st generation or etc. it's more... He's on a full ride so he doesn't have to pay for anything... And if he wants too he can take out a loan... For these athletes it's nothing for them to have access to about 10k through federal aid... And that's the spring, he got more money for the summer... The whole "I went to bed hungry" mantra is BS... At a big time school you're taken care of...

And if that's Lane he received his refund check as well... They are just being immature flashing their money...

That is absolutely not Lane, it's Phillips.

 

[Consigliere]

Pay the players! Even though they are gonna spend 70% of their money on weed, tattoos, & McDonald's

What is the other 30%, roth IRAs?

 

[334]

Is it against NCAA rules to post a pic with money? Too many conclusion jumpers, but keep jumping tho.

 

[tyrn]

Who's to say this dude didn't just cash his paycheck and decided to try and look cool and post it ? yal gotta chill. now if they start posting pics of new cars and electronics, there might be something to b**** about

If you believe that, your an idiot.

No high school kid has that kind of cash on them, especially when they live in the situations as these two without doing something illegal.

Oh and lets not forget that they are both wearing F$U gear while flashing it, could have been wearing anything else, but no they wanted to instagram the fact that they are getting paid to play for F$U and nobody can do **** about it.

Huh? It's not that much money and that's quite an ignorant and stereotype assessment... Considering the circumstances... Cook has been on campus since spring and now it's the summer semester... Dude probably received a full allotment of his Pell grant which is like roughly$2800 ... If he received any other grant like 1st generation or etc. it's more... He's on a full ride so he doesn't have to pay for anything... And if he wants too he can take out a loan... For these athletes it's nothing for them to have access to about 10k through federal aid... And that's the spring, he got more money for the summer... The whole "I went to bed hungry" mantra is BS... At a big time school you're taken care of...

And if that's Lane he received his refund check as well... They are just being immature flashing their money...

Ok. lol

Not an ignorant stereotype either.

I believe both of Cook and Phillips' home life has been posted about many times on this board and others, so try pulling you race card elsewhere.

They don't have access to that kind of cash.

And your excuse for them having it does not apply to a kid who is still in high school(Phillips)

Bro, pull your head out of your a$$, elite kids will be offered cash by most of the following teams: F$U, Bama, L$U, UF, Clem$on, Auburn, Ole Mi$$, O$U, Tenne$$ee, Arkan$a$, U$C and more.

I don't believe all elite kids are offered cash, but most are, especially these days.

That does not mean those same kids all take the cash and choose those programs either, but are for the most part(especially elite south FL players) are offered the cash.

 

[lauderdaleballer]

Who's to say this dude didn't just cash his paycheck and decided to try and look cool and post it ? yal gotta chill. now if they start posting pics of new cars and electronics, there might be something to b**** about

If you believe that, your an idiot.

No high school kid has that kind of cash on them, especially when they live in the situations as these two without doing something illegal.

Oh and lets not forget that they are both wearing F$U gear while flashing it, could have been wearing anything else, but no they wanted to instagram the fact that they are getting paid to play for F$U and nobody can do **** about it.

Huh? It's not that much money and that's quite an ignorant and stereotype assessment... Considering the circumstances... Cook has been on campus since spring and now it's the summer semester... Dude probably received a full allotment of his Pell grant which is like roughly$2800 ... If he received any other grant like 1st generation or etc. it's more... He's on a full ride so he doesn't have to pay for anything... And if he wants too he can take out a loan... For these athletes it's nothing for them to have access to about 10k through federal aid... And that's the spring, he got more money for the summer... The whole "I went to bed hungry" mantra is BS... At a big time school you're taken care of...

And if that's Lane he received his refund check as well... They are just being immature flashing their money...

Ok. lol

Not an ignorant stereotype either.

I believe both of Cook and Phillips' home life has been posted about many times on this board and others, so try pulling you race card elsewhere.

They don't have access to that kind of cash.

And your excuse for them having it does not apply to a kid who is still in high school(Phillips)

Bro, pull your head out of your a$$, elite kids will be offered cash by most of the following teams: F$U, Bama, L$U, UF, Clem$on, Auburn, Ole Mi$$, O$U, Tenne$$ee, Arkan$a$, U$C and more.

I don't believe all elite kids are offered cash, but most are, especially these days.

That does not mean those same kids all take the cash and choose those programs either, but are for the most part(especially elite south FL players) are offered the cash.

So are we offering cash? Because for some reason we are always in the final schools of interest... I know players get paid but if this is the case every time we lose a stud then what is the case when we sign a stud? We lost Cook due to cash, but we was in his top 3... Were we bidding as well? Oh how about Yearby? He decommitted from FSU; who we all believe pays. Did we outbid them for his services? I'm from down here and I'm quite privy to some of the recruiting practices... I'm extremely aware of the dark side but we are not losing all of our targets to cash... Some prospects just aren't buying what we have at the moment and some want to get away...

 

[lauderdaleballer]

Oh okay... Not saying I confine any of it... I think it's dumb all the way... I was just confused. On whether it was Lane or Phillips despite it being Phillips Instagram account...

Who's to say this dude didn't just cash his paycheck and decided to try and look cool and post it ? yal gotta chill. now if they start posting pics of new cars and electronics, there might be something to b**** about

If you believe that, your an idiot.

No high school kid has that kind of cash on them, especially when they live in the situations as these two without doing something illegal.

Oh and lets not forget that they are both wearing F$U gear while flashing it, could have been wearing anything else, but no they wanted to instagram the fact that they are getting paid to play for F$U and nobody can do **** about it.

Huh? It's not that much money and that's quite an ignorant and stereotype assessment... Considering the circumstances... Cook has been on campus since spring and now it's the summer semester... Dude probably received a full allotment of his Pell grant which is like roughly$2800 ... If he received any other grant like 1st generation or etc. it's more... He's on a full ride so he doesn't have to pay for anything... And if he wants too he can take out a loan... For these athletes it's nothing for them to have access to about 10k through federal aid... And that's the spring, he got more money for the summer... The whole "I went to bed hungry" mantra is BS... At a big time school you're taken care of...

And if that's Lane he received his refund check as well... They are just being immature flashing their money...

That is absolutely not Lane, it's Phillips.

 

[tyrn]

Who's to say this dude didn't just cash his paycheck and decided to try and look cool and post it ? yal gotta chill. now if they start posting pics of new cars and electronics, there might be something to b**** about

If you believe that, your an idiot.

No high school kid has that kind of cash on them, especially when they live in the situations as these two without doing something illegal.

Oh and lets not forget that they are both wearing F$U gear while flashing it, could have been wearing anything else, but no they wanted to instagram the fact that they are getting paid to play for F$U and nobody can do **** about it.

Huh? It's not that much money and that's quite an ignorant and stereotype assessment... Considering the circumstances... Cook has been on campus since spring and now it's the summer semester... Dude probably received a full allotment of his Pell grant which is like roughly$2800 ... If he received any other grant like 1st generation or etc. it's more... He's on a full ride so he doesn't have to pay for anything... And if he wants too he can take out a loan... For these athletes it's nothing for them to have access to about 10k through federal aid... And that's the spring, he got more money for the summer... The whole "I went to bed hungry" mantra is BS... At a big time school you're taken care of...

And if that's Lane he received his refund check as well... They are just being immature flashing their money...

Ok. lol

Not an ignorant stereotype either.

I believe both of Cook and Phillips' home life has been posted about many times on this board and others, so try pulling you race card elsewhere.

They don't have access to that kind of cash.

And your excuse for them having it does not apply to a kid who is still in high school(Phillips)

Bro, pull your head out of your a$$, elite kids will be offered cash by most of the following teams: F$U, Bama, L$U, UF, Clem$on, Auburn, Ole Mi$$, O$U, Tenne$$ee, Arkan$a$, U$C and more.

I don't believe all elite kids are offered cash, but most are, especially these days.

That does not mean those same kids all take the cash and choose those programs either, but are for the most part(especially elite south FL players) are offered the cash

.

So are we offering cash? Because for some reason we are always in the final schools of interest... I know players get paid but if this is the case every time we lose a stud then what is the case when we sign a stud? We lost Cook due to cash, but we was in his top 3... Were we bidding as well? Oh how about Yearby? He decommitted from FSU; who we all believe pays. Did we outbid them for his services? I'm from down here and I'm quite privy to some of the recruiting practices... I'm extremely aware of the dark side but we are not losing all of our targets to cash... Some prospects just aren't buying what we have at the moment and some want to get away...

This must be too hard for you to understand, it was already in my post.

I don't believe all elite kids are offered cash, but most are, especially these days.

That does not mean those same kids all take the cash and choose those programs either, but are for the most part(especially elite south FL players) are offered the cash

 

[tyrn]

http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2014/4/10/5594348/college-football-bag-man-interview