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Footballs decline is correlated to the decline of UM Academics

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Our athletic department has been such a **** show for so long. Thank god for Coach L because we got nepotism dimare destroying the once proud baseball program and 1980 pro style Columbus/UM royalty running the football program.

Id be shocked if our athletic department succeeds across all major sports in my lifetime.

Miami is a joke academically right now. Pay 80k a year for an education that is worse than UF/FSU where their tuition is penny on the dollars for any Florida resident. Brilliant business model
 
Canedude08 said:
Again, the concept of giving huge merit based financial aid packages to most of the student body, is financially irresponsible. Go look at most of our peer institutions, a lot of them don't give merit aid anymore. As a private institution, as you get more and more selective, you end up maxing out in regards to merit aid, because **** near everyone qualified.

Look at the Ivy League, you have to be POOR to get aid from the institution. There's a reason why. When you can easily admit a class full of valedictorians and kids with 1500+ SAT scores, it's insane to give everyone a full ride, even when you can afford it. Miami doesn't have a 10 billion+ endowment. Duke doesn't give the aid they once did, same with Stanford and a lot of other "Name Brand" private institutions.

College IN GENERAL has become a transaction, especially as kids have come to realize that going into debt just to say you went somewhere is a bit silly. The schools that don't have this problem are state institutions, because they are part of the community. Alabama doesn't have this problem because they represent an entire state, kids go there because it's their state school.
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It isn’t a choice between giving everyone a merit scholarship and no one. My argument is that if you give day 10% of students a merit based scholarship, instead of taking cash, it will cost you in the short term but pay dividends in the long term. You’ll have kids with a better incentives to succeed to retain that merit based help, more loyalty like you yourself said, etc.

>The schools that don’t have this problem are part of the community

Again, making my point for me lol. UM makes no effort to be part of the community because they are private and blah blah blah. This program became great only because Howard didn’t give a f*ck about the Ivy League mentality and went into the worst neighborhoods in Miami to find the most driven workers and gave them an unparalleled opportunity at that time. This school has been successful when it’s embraced the community, and it hasn’t for a long time.
 
Stupidity Are You Stupid GIF
 
Canedude08 said:
Let's be transparent here, I'm not a huge fan of Dr. Frenk. I think he's a weak leader, a weak fundraiser and the faculty has made it clear that he isn't the most relatable or likable guy out there. You don't go from Dr. Shalala, who people loved(Outside of our dumbass fanbase), to a guy that most students and stakeholders couldn't recognize in a lineup. The BOT dropped the ball on that hire, because they hired someone to run the University that was best suited to run UHealth and the med school only.
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Agree. Would like to see Miami get away from these weak leftist Presidents and to go after more of an alpha who understands both the importance of premier athletics as well as academics.

Can't remember the name, but a few years ago there was a General in the mix before Frenk was hired. Would've loved to see something like that instead of these spineless wimps.
 
ItsAUThing.com said:
Agree. Would like to see Miami get away from these weak leftist Presidents and to go after more of an alpha who understands both the importance of premier athletics as well as academics.

Can't remember the name, but a few years ago there was a General in the mix before Frenk was hired. Would've loved to see something like that instead of these spineless wimps.
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Adm. Stavridis was the guy that was in the running, and contrary to popular belief, he isn't the guy our conservative fans were hoping he was. Like most educated people, he has different political beliefs on different topics.

Dr. Shalala wasn't going to be invited to dinner at Rush Limbaugh's house, and she did a **** good job as President of the University. This isn't a political thing, this is a "Can do the job" thing. Miami will never be Alabama in any way shape or form and it's time our fanbase started to grasp that. We are a school that prides itself on being welcoming to all, we do have a diverse student body and alumni base.

Miami needs a President that can inspire and lead all stakeholders towards a shared vision. Frenk can't do that, because he's a dean masquerading as a University President.
 
Boarcane said:
Didn’t read. All you need to post is, Donna Shalala is a piece of trash. The rest is implied
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We get it, you secretly have a hard on for Shalala. You never resist a moment to bring her name up. UM athletics wouldn't have the money to invest in the football facilities and lure a "high profile" coach without Shalala. Also, Miami probably gets punished way more severely by the NCAA from the Nevin Shapiro mess if DS doesn't square up against them.
 
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305_separatist said:
It isn’t a choice between giving everyone a merit scholarship and no one. My argument is that if you give day 10% of students a merit based scholarship, instead of taking cash, it will cost you in the short term but pay dividends in the long term. You’ll have kids with a better incentives to succeed to retain that merit based help, more loyalty like you yourself said, etc.

>The schools that don’t have this problem are part of the community

Again, making my point for me lol. UM makes no effort to be part of the community because they are private and blah blah blah. This program became great only because Howard didn’t give a f*ck about the Ivy League mentality and went into the worst neighborhoods in Miami to find the most driven workers and gave them an unparalleled opportunity at that time. This school has been successful when it’s embraced the community, and it hasn’t for a long time.
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It's almost like you are running to a narrative, facts be damned.

What does Alabama, Clemson, Texas A&M, all have in common? STATE SCHOOLS. Miami, in regards to the overall student body has ALWAYS had a student body that is made up of some local kids, but the bulk are from out of state. That has NEVER CHANGED. Football recruiting and student body recruiting have been different for decades. Why? Same thing at most major private institutions. This isn't about "Investing in the local community", this is about the fact that the demographics of any private school(With some unique outliers, USC chief amongst them) WILL ALWAYS be significantly different than any state sponsored institution.

You can argue that the change in merit aid has removed some vitality from the student body(it has), but the school will also argue that we are fighting some of the same battles in regards to getting students to care that we fought back when we were giving out huge chunks of merit aid. Most kids, no matter where they come from don't dream of going to Miami, unless they have a direct tie, or something else happens. It's not a destination school for many, even the local kids. Keep in mind, more kids in South Florida dream of attending UF or FSU than Miami, and no amount of marketing will change that. Why? Because they have ties to UF and FSU, likely through their families, due to the sheer number of alumni that populate the area. There are more UF and FSU alumni in South Florida than Miami alumni, and it's not particularly close.
 
Gsugradcanefan said:
We get it, you secretly have a hard on for Shalala. You never resist a moment to bring her name up. UM athletics wouldn't have the money to invest in the football facilities and lure a "high profile" coach without Shalala. Also, Miami probably gets punished way more severely by the NCAA from the Nevin Shapiro mess if DS doesn't square up against them.
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Stop using logic with these people. You can tell the people that never set foot on campus, and those that have. Dr. Shalala should have not stood on the table for Randy Shannon, but overall, she did a ton for the University. Our dumbass "Fans" most of whom desperately wish for Miami to become a diploma mill because "Football", will never get it.
 
Two pages of banter back and forth and it seems that the solution to our problem is to stay in the ACC (for academic purposes) and get good enough to fight for the conference championship on a yearly basis.
 
Canedude08 said:
You really think football had something to do with it, or the fact that all state schools have directly benefited from a changing consumer culture in regards to higher education.
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The President of Alabama will tell you that the rise of the football program has greatly affected it. I live in Alabama And this is one of the reasons how they justify Saban’s salary
 
razrcane said:
The President of Alabama will tell you that the rise of the football program has greatly affected it. I live in Alabama And this is one of the reasons how they justify Saban’s salary
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They need to find a reason, ANY reason to justify why they keep jacking up tuition for instate students, while also giving a glorified gym teacher millions. The President of that school KNOWS that if he doesn't toe the line, Saban will turk him by lunch.

Let's cut the nonsense with Alabama. They are growing as a school because 1)They give out insane money to National Merit Scholars(It's a point of pride for them to have more National Merit recipients than any other school) and 2)They are HYPER aggressive in regards to recruiting OOS kids, especially kids that can qualify for aid. They want to boost their minority recruitment, so they now have satellite admissions offices in places like Chicago and throughout the midwest, to where they can try to get kids to at least consider Alabama. What's funny about Alabama is that they are gaming the USNWR rankings, while also not addressing their awful retention numbers. It's brilliant, get as many kids as you can to show up, give out insane money, knowing that a lot of kids will want out within a year or two, because Alabama as an institution hasn't changed one iota from the crapfest it was 20 years ago.
 
Canedude08 said:
You really think football had something to do with it, or the fact that all state schools have directly benefited from a changing consumer culture in regards to higher education.
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Yes football had a huge influence on it. Many out of state kids that pay full tuition (which as you pointed out allows the school to offer more aid to better students) would have never considered those schools and now Bama, Clemson, and UGA are very "hot" schools.
 
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Keep this short. If you judge academic performance by US News Ranking, than Football is correlated. The decline there is directly related to the risks Shalala took, and the money we have today is the payoff on tjat risk. If football can start to win, our US News Ranking will improve.
 
Bama with all their success on the football field is the 3rd best institution in their state. Ranked outside of the top 100 while other state schools like FSU have shot up the rankings. Also getting more applications does not necessarily mean getting better applicants.

If OP's goal is to build a better alumni base than the only thing that could help is lowering tuition for in-state students.
 
Canedude08 said:
They need to find a reason, ANY reason to justify why they keep jacking up tuition for instate students, while also giving a glorified gym teacher millions. The President of that school KNOWS that if he doesn't toe the line, Saban will turk him by lunch.

Let's cut the nonsense with Alabama. They are growing as a school because 1)They give out insane money to National Merit Scholars(It's a point of pride for them to have more National Merit recipients than any other school) and 2)They are HYPER aggressive in regards to recruiting OOS kids, especially kids that can qualify for aid. They want to boost their minority recruitment, so they now have satellite admissions offices in places like Chicago and throughout the midwest, to where they can try to get kids to at least consider Alabama. What's funny about Alabama is that they are gaming the USNWR rankings, while also not addressing their awful retention numbers. It's brilliant, get as many kids as you can to show up, give out insane money, knowing that a lot of kids will want out within a year or two, because Alabama as an institution hasn't changed one iota from the crapfest it was 20 years ago.
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Can confirm having just moved from New Orleans that the Gumps are hyper aggressive in throwing $$ money @ kids with strong ACT/grades, etc. LSU, asleep at the switch, as always, has hemorrhaged lots of strong applicants/potential students to UA (& others as a result).
 
AlexCane said:
Good post overall, but I question the bolded. I was in school during '01. IIRC, UM saw an uptick of 30% in applications during that time. That means a better pool of qualified students. So, sports does or can help academics.
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This is 100% correct. There has been a strong correlation between the number of applications received by the University and the success of the football team. I was told this by Admins when I was a member of the President's 100 in the late 80s. In years where we dominated on the field, we received a significant increase in applications from prospective students (which allows you to be more selective and should lead to a higher GPA for the incoming class etc). It is exceptionally good for the University of Miami if the football team is elite and they do it the right way (how it was under Butch & the beginning of Coker).
 
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