Footballs decline is correlated to the decline of UM Academics

[Nopain]

Yeah I know that. I'm saying if OP's goal is to build a stronger alumni base that starts off with in-state students because those students are more than likely to stay in state rather than go back home to NY and NJ like a lot of them do now. The medical school offers an in-state tuition for students. Not sure if rules are different for undergrad but they could also implement state specific scholarship programs that in-state students could benefit from. The school's fin aid packages are lacking when compared to other private schools (not even including Ivy's).

LOL on in-state tuition. Only difference is in the 4th year and it is $4k less, a minimal amount.

Florida Residents (MS1-3) $48,663.00
Florida Residents (MS4) $44,677.00
Non-Residents $48,663.00

 

[Boarcane]

Since when did DS hire Randy Shannon? I could've sworn that was done by the AD but continue spewing inaccurate revisionist history. Your statement of her hiring Randy as a race driven political move, and not because numerous other candidates turned it down bc Miami was seen as a mess of a program, (he was like the 6th or 7th candidate interviewed) tells me all i need to know about your warped, foolish mindset. As far as the stadium deal, it is MI understanding that it was something done in the 11th hour by Miami politicians behind UM's back on some shady **** because they really wanted that for the Marlins since at the time baseball was a way bigger attraction than UM football, given the city's huge Hispanic population.

Ok I’m done. She was absolutely a huge part of the Randy hire and drove the decision. The stadium wasn’t deal a done behind UM’s back. She negotiated an exit deal for The University of Miami and here walked away very happy. Have a wonderful evening. Please continue googling, I’m going to bed.

 

[Juanka]

It isn’t a choice between giving everyone a merit scholarship and no one. My argument is that if you give day 10% of students a merit based scholarship, instead of taking cash, it will cost you in the short term but pay dividends in the long term. You’ll have kids with a better incentives to succeed to retain that merit based help, more loyalty like you yourself said, etc.

>The schools that don’t have this problem are part of the community

Again, making my point for me lol. UM makes no effort to be part of the community because they are private and blah blah blah. This program became great only because Howard didn’t give a f*ck about the Ivy League mentality and went into the worst neighborhoods in Miami to find the most driven workers and gave them an unparalleled opportunity at that time. This school has been successful when it’s embraced the community, and it hasn’t for a long time.

How about online learning at a more affordable rate? They can keep the on-campus rate as is. This way, they keep their classes small, and graduate online programs will have a national reach. We already have so many fans outside of Miami, and it's a way to connect with the local community and beyond.

Boston University made their online MBA program 24k. It's been a big hit—a nationally recognized program with AACSB accreditation.

Boston University's New $24,000 Online MBA Is A Big Hit

The new online MBA program at Boston University is a big hit, the fastest growing degree program in the business school's history

poetsandquants.com

 

[E1k]

A stronger alumni base is at the core of it yes. More broadly, local community buy in even more locally. The more positive impressions local HS kids get of the U, in both academics and athletics, prior to commuting the better our chances in every recruit battle.

Man i said something like this in another thread and people clowned me lol i keep saying we have to build a better connection to the communities we recruit. Everybody thinks im giving an excuse for kids or bashing the school when im just pointing out one of the issues and something that can help us

 

[IamaCane4Life]

This is a strange post! So what we are saying is lower the standards for a school so we can win football games! I am shaking my head! I guess we know what our priorities are!

 

[305_separatist]

How about online learning at a more affordable rate? They can keep the on-campus rate as is. This way, they keep their classes small, and graduate online programs will have a national reach. We already have so many fans outside of Miami, and it's a way to connect with the local community and beyond.

Boston University made their online MBA program 24k. It's been a big hit—a nationally recognized program with AACSB accreditation.

Boston University's New $24,000 Online MBA Is A Big Hit

The new online MBA program at Boston University is a big hit, the fastest growing degree program in the business school's history

poetsandquants.com

Yes an excellent idea too. They just need to get innovative across the board.

Man i said something like this in another thread and people clowned me lol i keep saying we have to build a better connection to the communities we recruit. Everybody thinks im giving an excuse for kids or bashing the school when im just pointing out one of the issues and something that can help us

Yeah man

This is a strange post! So what we are saying is lower the standards for a school so we can win football games! I am shaking my head! I guess we know what our priorities are!

Literally no where in this thread has that been said

 

[TheOriginalCane]

@TheOriginalCane

Over to you hoss regarding academic decline.

What can I say, the original porster is an unintelligent weirdo who likes to steal people's money to fund non-existent billboard trucks.

 

[Canedude08]

How about online learning at a more affordable rate? They can keep the on-campus rate as is. This way, they keep their classes small, and graduate online programs will have a national reach. We already have so many fans outside of Miami, and it's a way to connect with the local community and beyond.

Boston University made their online MBA program 24k. It's been a big hit—a nationally recognized program with AACSB accreditation.

Boston University's New $24,000 Online MBA Is A Big Hit

The new online MBA program at Boston University is a big hit, the fastest growing degree program in the business school's history

poetsandquants.com

You realize that online programs do not address the loyalty issue right? We have online education as is mostly for postgrad work. It's been proven that online education only serves as a cash grab for the school, it doesn't increase alumni giving and most people that are online only lack the ties that traditional students have. There is also the risk of institutional prestige damage, because if you go whole hog on online, you get labelled as a diploma mill. There's a reason why the schools that are really deep in that sphere are state sponsored schools with iffy prestige to begin with.

 

[305_separatist]

You realize that online programs do not address the loyalty issue right? We have online education as is mostly for postgrad work. It's been proven that online education only serves as a cash grab for the school, it doesn't increase alumni giving and most people that are online only lack the ties that traditional students have. There is also the risk of institutional prestige damage, because if you go whole hog on online, you get labelled as a diploma mill. There's a reason why the schools that are really deep in that sphere are state sponsored schools with iffy prestige to begin with.

I’m literally taking an online course from an Ivy League institution right now. They basically all do it. So I think the credibility risk you’re alluding to is very overblown, that kind of stuff is becoming very normal, and could be a cheap way to get (qualified) local kids bought into the school far beyond it’s on campus capacity. It’s not s silver bullet at all though, just one of the many things the university should be aggressively pursuing imo.

 

[Juanka]

You realize that online programs do not address the loyalty issue right? We have online education as is mostly for postgrad work. It's been proven that online education only serves as a cash grab for the school, it doesn't increase alumni giving and most people that are online only lack the ties that traditional students have. There is also the risk of institutional prestige damage, because if you go whole hog on online, you get labelled as a diploma mill. There's a reason why the schools that are really deep in that sphere are state sponsored schools with iffy prestige to begin with.

I know we offer online Grad programs now. It's the cost of it and the lack of options.
I don't get why there would be prestige damage to the school. The University of Columbia is going online for their communications program last I saw; Pennsylvania university offers online masters as well. Those two are ivy league. I am sure they don't lose any prestige. You have some very good schools like Rice, CMU, NC, Washington, Etc. Offering online MBA. We offer it too, but for like 97k, I believe.

 

[305_separatist]

I know we offer online Grad programs now. It's the cost of it and the lack of options.
I don't get why there would be prestige damage to the school. The University of Columbia is going online for their communications program last I saw; Pennsylvania university offers online masters as well. Those two are ivy league. I am sure they don't lose any prestige. You have some very good schools like Rice, CMU, NC, Washington, Etc. Offering online MBA. We offer it too, but for like 97k, I believe.

The cost is fine. Sticker price is important to keep the optics that it’s highly desirable imo. Rather than lowering the public sticker price, I think it’d be more effective to be aggressive with outreach and scholarships to reduce the amount for highly qualified individuals. That way it feels more personal, there’s gratitude and buy in, etc.

That’s my common theme in this whole thread. Out reach and relationship building, especially in the local community, and there’s so many ways to do it.

 

[Juanka]

The cost is fine. Sticker price is important to keep the optics that it’s highly desirable imo. Rather than lowering the public sticker price, I think it’d be more effective to be aggressive with outreach and scholarships to reduce the amount for highly qualified individuals. That way it feels more personal, there’s gratitude and buy in, etc.

That’s my common theme in this whole thread. Out reach and relationship building, especially in the local community, and there’s so many ways to do it.

That works too! Agreed

 

[Canedude08]

I know we offer online Grad programs now. It's the cost of it and the lack of options.
I don't get why there would be prestige damage to the school. The University of Columbia is going online for their communications program last I saw; Pennsylvania university offers online masters as well. Those two are ivy league. I am sure they don't lose any prestige. You have some very good schools like Rice, CMU, NC, Washington, Etc. Offering online MBA. We offer it too, but for like 97k, I believe.

And people still value an in residence degree more compared to an online only degree from the same institution. A lot of employers view an online degree with skepticism, especially undergrad ones. Graduate degrees are a bit different.

 

[FL Cane]

Yes an excellent idea too. They just need to get innovative across the board.

Yeah man

Literally no where in this thread has that been said

I put up a post like this recently when the new USNW rankings came out. Plainly put, Frenk's leadership has been extremely subpar and underwhelming. Even with all the issues Shalala had, she was a fundraising powerhouse. That got attention nationally, but Frenk isn't good at fundraising or much of anything.

Also, while some of our STEM programs have taken a step forward, everything else has taken a step back.

 

[hotshot]

with a much larger percentage of the student population just being rich kids who want to go to school in Miami.

As a 1966 UM grad, I think all my fellow out-of-state students I knew back then fell into your "just wanted to go to school in Miami" category. Few if any in my experience came for "academics." The exotic location of Miami was certainly my motivation, though my family was definitely not "rich."

This was at the height of the school's rep as "Sun Tan U" (as chronicled in I believe an infamous Saturday Evening Post Magazine article). The University wanted to grow -- expand the student population, build new buildings, hire more faculty, etc and admitted pretty much anyone who could pay, and had a pulse.

Our success on the football field as an Independent was respectable, nothing more. Of course, like most Southern teams, we were playing then with no Black players on the team at all.

Local South Florida High Schools were not the focus in recruiting, with the bulk of the starters coming from the fertile recruiting areas of Western PA and Northeastern Ohio. Coach Gustafson was a famous Pitt grad himself. Charlie Tate, his successor as HC, was more wired in locally, having coached at Miami High.

Attendance at the OB was about what it always had been and would continue to be -- ranging from 25,000 for an average attraction to a full house if the opponent was a draw (like a FSU, UF, ND).

 

[305_separatist]

As a 1966 UM grad, I think all my fellow out-of-state students I knew back then fell into your "just wanted to go to school in Miami" category. Few if any in my experience came for "academics." The exotic location of Miami was certainly my motivation, though my family was definitely not "rich."

This was at the height of the school's rep as "Sun Tan U" (as chronicled in I believe an infamous Saturday Evening Post Magazine article). The University wanted to grow -- expand the student population, build new buildings, hire more faculty, etc and admitted pretty much anyone who could pay, and had a pulse.

Our success on the football field as an Independent was respectable, nothing more. Of course, like most Southern teams, we were playing then with no Black players on the team at all.

Local South Florida High Schools were not the focus in recruiting, with the bulk of the starters coming from the fertile recruiting areas of Western PA and Northeastern Ohio. Coach Gustafson was a famous Pitt grad himself. Cgharlie Tate, his successor as HC, was more wired in locally, having coached at Miami High.

Attendance at the OB was about what it always had been and would continue to be -- ranging from 25,000 for an average attraction to a full house if the opponent was a draw (like a FSU, UF, ND).

My suspicion is that we’ve basically been regressing to a version of Sun Tan U again.

 

[hotshot]

My suspicion is that we’ve basically been regressing to a version of Sun Tan U again.

I don't think that's true. Too many "gains" have been made over the decades for something as extreme as that to occur. OTOH, the talk about our becoming the "Harvard of the South" probably was/is a pipe dream.

 

[Canedude08]

I don't think that's true. Too many "gains" have been made over the decades for something as extreme as that to occur. OTOH, the talk about our becoming the "Harvard of the South" probably was/is a pipe dream.

It's not even close to becoming Suntan U again, but a lot of our fans, most of whom think that USNWR rankings is some kind of accurate barometer of anything significant are desperately grasping at straws. The school has changed in ways to where it would require some kind of far reaching scandal and decades of inept leadership for us to become that school again.

The issue is that Frenk is an AWFUL fundraiser. If Frenk was raising money like Dr. Shalala, our ranking would be better, because of the fact that as a student body, they are getting more and more intelligent, especially compared to the mediocre kids from 40+ years ago. People forget that the average admitted SAT/ACT score now, is significantly higher than what it was even 10 years ago. Kids that would have been able to cruise to admission 10-15 years ago, wouldn't even get past the opening round of cuts today, because those profiles are a dime a dozen.

Miami needs a new President, period. We need someone that is active on campus, someone that can fundraise at a high level(We were promised that Frenk would be able to leverage his relationships with guys like Carlos Slim, guess what hasn't happened). Frenk is just a weak leader, and you can't follow a dynamic leader with a weak one, it makes the difference even more jarring.

 

[Canedude08]

Yup, major disadvantage that has to be addressed. Yes, that will cost money.

Here’s an idea: start an ambassador program to every school in Miami Dade. Free college prep materials and presentations or career coaching or whatever. Then, offer the top 3 students of every graduating class a full ride. Pair that with aggressive athletic workshops for every major sport as well, which coaches leverage for recruitment. Selectivity expand this to other state schools with good ROI, like IMG and other powerhouses both academic and athletic.

Now you’re building relationships across the board with every major administrative position at the school, teams, and generating tons of local goodwill that can lead to greater program buy in.

Simple ideas like this implemented correctly would signal a massive change in attitude within the admin and would start slowly reversing chronic cultural issues imo.

There are 128 public high schools in Miami-Dade county. If we were to offer the top 3 grads of every one of them a full ride, that would come out to 15% of the incoming class, that's before we include the OOS students that are coming in with full rides. It can get out to 30% of the incoming class EVERY YEAR. That's a lot of money. Even Harvard, with their gigantic endowment isn't covering the bill for that many people.

I get it, a lot of our fans want Miami to be managed like a state school, even though it isn't. I'll never get this mindset. It's like someone that moves into an HOA neighborhood, and then acts shocked when HOA stuff happens. You knew BEFORE you moved in that it was an HOA neighborhood. If you can't grasp that Miami isn't Alabama as an institution, then that's a you problem at this point. If you want a huge state school, with a huge alumni base, then go cheer for someone that offers what you are looking for.

This University spends millions on outreach, the University is one of the largest(and most generous) employers in Miami-Dade county, still doesn't change the fact that people aren't loyal and never have been. We aren't overcoming a simple fundamental truth: When it comes to colleges/universities, most people are loyal to schools that they either attended, or know someone that has. SMU, TCU, BC, Duke, all of the small to medium private schools are fighting this battle. The only two I can think of that aren't are USC and Notre Dame, and they are unique outliers. SC is unique because they are managed like a state school, they have been for decades, and they have a huge alumni base, mostly from them cranking out grads like no ones business over the last 100+ years. They crank out grads, and a lot of those grads stay in the area, which is extremely unique. Most Duke grads leave Durham, same with us. Keep in mind, So Cal is extremely affluent, so they've become the choice for any kid of means in that area, outside of the select few that end up at UCLA. Notre Dame is THE institution for an entire religious group. They are the Catholic version of BYU.

 

[305_separatist]

There are 128 public high schools in Miami-Dade county. If we were to offer the top 3 grads of every one of them a full ride, that would come out to 15% of the incoming class, that's before we include the OOS students that are coming in with full rides. It can get out to 30% of the incoming class EVERY YEAR. That's a lot of money. Even Harvard, with their gigantic endowment isn't covering the bill for that many people.

I get it, a lot of our fans want Miami to be managed like a state school, even though it isn't. I'll never get this mindset. It's like someone that moves into an HOA neighborhood, and then acts shocked when HOA stuff happens. You knew BEFORE you moved in that it was an HOA neighborhood. If you can't grasp that Miami isn't Alabama as an institution, then that's a you problem at this point. If you want a huge state school, with a huge alumni base, then go cheer for someone that offers what you are looking for.

This University spends millions on outreach, the University is one of the largest(and most generous) employers in Miami-Dade county, still doesn't change the fact that people aren't loyal and never have been. We aren't overcoming a simple fundamental truth: When it comes to colleges/universities, most people are loyal to schools that they either attended, or know someone that has. SMU, TCU, BC, Duke, all of the small to medium private schools are fighting this battle. The only two I can think of that aren't are USC and Notre Dame, and they are unique outliers. SC is unique because they are managed like a state school, they have been for decades, and they have a huge alumni base, mostly from them cranking out grads like no ones business over the last 100+ years. They crank out grads, and a lot of those grads stay in the area, which is extremely unique. Most Duke grads leave Durham, same with us. Keep in mind, So Cal is extremely affluent, so they've become the choice for any kid of means in that area, outside of the select few that end up at UCLA. Notre Dame is THE institution for an entire religious group. They are the Catholic version of BYU.

Then make it just the top kid in every school, so 157. And factor in that not every single one is gonna accept, they’ll likely have plenty of other offers. Also not sure why you make it seem like the OOS scholarships aren’t tweakable as well.

My actual point is that as one of the small/medium universities fight this battle, that we have to be aggressive in community outreach and relationship building. I’ve made several different proposals in this thread, I’m sure there’s many much better ones out there. But that’s what needs to be done as an initiative to start building what the state schools benefit from easily.