Does anyone know the current statuts of the Arky State vs. The U litigation?

Ok got it. Got both answers.

It’s a venue motion.

Then this case is far from over. Correct?


Uh, kinda. It is trying to effectuate forum choice (by default), but it still focuses on whether the case should be dismissed by the Dade court. Essentially, the argument is this: normally, you file suit for damages, and they are claiming they were damaged in Arkansas. Miami's lawsuit is more about declarative relief ("hey, judge, we want to be declared free of this ridiculous contract").

They have a bit of a point, but that doesn't mean they have a slam-dunk win. I know I am oversimplifying greatly, for the benefit of the non-lawyers, but yes, if they win a dismissal motion, then the only remaining lawsuit is theirs. In Mayberry.

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Does it mention anything about a forum selection clause or are you aware of any in the original agreement?


The original agreement was terrible. It was some god-awful template that the ACC provided (probably drafted by the ACC commissioner's idiot relative or something similar). Parts of the agreement were simply struck out by one or the other party. A second-year law student could draft a more inclusive, specific, and better-binding contract than that piece of garbage.

Millions of dollars at stake, and you use some 2-page boilerplate template out of a forms book.

Blake may be doing some good things at UM, but we have made plenty of mistakes too.

I think that terrible contract was written by the same City of Miami lawyers who drafted the contract with Hammes to renovate the old Orange Bowl.

Just imagine swiss cheese. A slice of that is more sturdy than the UM-ASU contract.

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Does it mention anything about a forum selection clause or are you aware of any in the original agreement?

I have a copy of the agreement, (side note (i) we paid 300k per game to play Arky State; (ii) liquidated damages clause for $650k)

I do not see a venue or forum selection provision but there was a choice of law provision (for Florida) that was crossed out and initialed by both parties. There is also a clause that says if a game is not played as scheduled it shall be rescheduled as such exigencies may dictate or permit.
 
I have a copy of the agreement, (side note (i) we paid 300k per game to play Arky State; (ii) liquidated damages clause for $650k)

I do not see a venue or forum selection provision but there was a choice of law provision (for Florida) that was crossed out and initialed by both parties. There is also a clause that says if a game is not played as scheduled it shall be rescheduled as such exigencies may dictate or permit.


Layman's take, I am not an attorney.

I think one of the earlier threads about this suit contained or linked to a copy of the contract. It was horrible practice to sign that document on our side. Terrible contract which was obviously edited by hand with no apparent legal review as to the revisions.

At the end of the day, I can't imagine either party winning summary judgment on this one, ie getting what they want without an expensive trial. It's going to be expensive to litigate and will come down to that language "as such exigencies may dictate or permit". This is, in part, why venue is so important. What kind of reference do a bunch of Arkie inbreds have for what it is like to plan for and deal with a major hurricane?

The whole thing is ridiculous, but we left ourselves open to this by utilizing a horrible contract (fault of both our horrible ACC leadership and either terrible, or desperate, or both, decision making by our AD in scheduling this series and the accompanying conditions to the agreement).

Regardless of how petty and ridiculous ASU is being, and how appropriate our actions in not playing the game and in trying to accommodate ASU in rescheduling, this is going to be costly and it is at least partially our own fault.
 
If it’s a motion to dismiss by Arkansas State, then what is it a motion to dismiss for? A counter suit by Miami? Arkansas state would not be entertaining a motion to dismiss its own case.

Or did I read that correctly? To all the lawyers on this site.

UM, as the plaintiff' sued Arkansas State in Miami state court by filing a Complaint for declaratory relief.
In response, Arkansas State filed a motion to dismiss (the Complaint for declaratory relief) essentially claiming that (1) the Miami state court lacks personal jurisdiction over Arkansas State [basically saying they don't have sufficient ties to Florida and shouldn't have been sued here], (2) the Miami state court lacks subject matter jurisdiction over this matter [basically saying declaratory relief is not appropriate here], and (3) the Miami state court should not exercise discretion over this matter based upon the anticipatory suit doctrine [basically saying UM previously knew Arkansas State would sue them in Arkansas before UM filed suit in Miami, they did sue UM in Arkansas, and Arkansas is where the matter should be resolved -- even though Miami filed its lawsuit first].

Hope this helps. ;)
 
I have a copy of the agreement, (side note (i) we paid 300k per game to play Arky State; (ii) liquidated damages clause for $650k)

I do not see a venue or forum selection provision but there was a choice of law provision (for Florida) that was crossed out and initialed by both parties. There is also a clause that says if a game is not played as scheduled it shall be rescheduled as such exigencies may dictate or permit.

I’m definitely not a lawyer, but I do a ton of B2B contracting, worth billions over their term, so I’ve spent the last several years closely reading contracts, I mean line by line, along with lawyers...and my company actually employs an outside firm that answers to me as well as one internal lawyer whose specifically assigned to me.

I feel like I’ve gotten a law school education in B2B contract law last few years, although they’re very specific types of contract and not general contracts, so obviously I don’t have any experience with university to university contracting as far as scheduling games and so forth....and I also say this facetiously - I know law school is a lot harder than I’m joking about since my expertise is limited to certain types of very specific contracts in a very narrow area in the business world.

Having said all that, I am aware of venue provisions and/or dispute resolutions protocols with specific language, since those have been included in literally every contract I’ve dealt with. I’m just surprised that in the ACC template they didn’t have anything specifying that? To me there are two parties to blame, the ACC more than Miami, because Miami is a member of the ACC has some obligation to follow ACC guidelines. By the same token if Miami was given any freedom in the formation and execution of the template, venue provisions should’ve been included. Am I wrong?
 
UM, as the plaintiff' sued Arkansas State in Miami state court by filing a Complaint for declaratory relief.
In response, Arkansas State filed a motion to dismiss (the Complaint for declaratory relief) essentially claiming that (1) the Miami state court lacks personal jurisdiction over Arkansas State [basically saying they don't have sufficient ties to Florida and shouldn't have been sued here], (2) the Miami state court lacks subject matter jurisdiction over this matter [basically saying declaratory relief is not appropriate here], and (3) the Miami state court should not exercise discretion over this matter based upon the anticipatory suit doctrine [basically saying UM previously knew Arkansas State would sue them in Arkansas before UM filed suit in Miami, they did sue UM in Arkansas, and Arkansas is where the matter should be resolved -- even though Miami filed its lawsuit first].

Hope this helps. ;)

So does ASU have a strong argument? Because with my layman’s eyes it sounds like #3 is a strong point for them, The first 2 sound debatable to me, but the third sounds like a strong point for them or am I reading it wrong?
 
So does ASU have a strong argument? Because with my layman’s eyes it sounds like #3 is a strong point for them, The first 2 sound debatable to me, but the third sounds like a strong point for them or am I reading it wrong?


Anticipatory suit doctrine is not applied in a uniform fashion by every court. Facts that support the application of the doctrine would include the moronic "we are going to sue you on Friday" statement. Facts that hurt their argument include the evidence that the "forum" clause was struck out of the agreement (thus UM's suit is not based solely on some effort to circumvent the bounds of the agreement).

If I were representing UM, I would emphasize the connection between all of ASU's negative statements about UM and our efforts to prepare for the hurricane, and our subsequent desire to gain clarity over the contract, particularly force majeure. I would also emphasize that the date given by ASU was not something contractual (i.e., we were not required to announce a rescheduling by that particular date) and that we viewed their "deadline" as something theatrical, and not as an absolute date by which ASU had to (or was actually going to) file a lawsuit, particularly if their threats were verbal and were never committed to a formal demand letter. Finally, I would point out that UM did not take advantage of any negotiating efforts or any other delay in order to file our lawsuit in bad faith (i.e., while the other side was "playing nice", we took advantage to file our lawsuit first).

There is enough space between their CONTRACTUAL claims (i.e., we should have to reschedule them in the next year or two) and OUR contractual claims (we should be excused under force majeure) that it is entirely possible that ASU loses on that point alone. There are legit reasons why you would bring a "hurricane allows escape under force majeure" case in Dade County, and not in Shawshank, Arkansas.

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Anticipatory suit doctrine is not applied in a uniform fashion by every court. Facts that support the application of the doctrine would include the moronic "we are going to sue you on Friday" statement. Facts that hurt their argument include the evidence that the "forum" clause was struck out of the agreement (thus UM's suit is not based solely on some effort to circumvent the bounds of the agreement).

If I were representing UM, I would emphasize the connection between all of ASU's negative statements about UM and our efforts to prepare for the hurricane, and our subsequent desire to gain clarity over the contract, particularly force majeure. I would also emphasize that the date given by ASU was not something contractual (i.e., we were not required to announce a rescheduling by that particular date) and that we viewed their "deadline" as something theatrical, and not as an absolute date by which ASU had to (or was actually going to) file a lawsuit, particularly if their threats were verbal and were never committed to a formal demand letter. Finally, I would point out that UM did not take advantage of any negotiating efforts or any other delay in order to file our lawsuit in bad faith (i.e., while the other side was "playing nice", we took advantage to file our lawsuit first).

There is enough space between their CONTRACTUAL claims (i.e., we should have to reschedule them in the next year or two) and OUR contractual claims (we should be excused under force majeure) that it is entirely possible that ASU loses on that point alone. There are legit reasons why you would bring a "hurricane allows escape under force majeure" case in Dade County, and not in Shawshank, Arkansas.

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I don't believe we are excused either way. We offered to reschedule the game in 2024 or 2025. The issue is the provision that calls for the game to be rescheduled is in the force majeure clause, but does not say when it needs to be rescheduled.
 
Anticipatory suit doctrine is not applied in a uniform fashion by every court. Facts that support the application of the doctrine would include the moronic "we are going to sue you on Friday" statement. Facts that hurt their argument include the evidence that the "forum" clause was struck out of the agreement (thus UM's suit is not based solely on some effort to circumvent the bounds of the agreement).

If I were representing UM, I would emphasize the connection between all of ASU's negative statements about UM and our efforts to prepare for the hurricane, and our subsequent desire to gain clarity over the contract, particularly force majeure. I would also emphasize that the date given by ASU was not something contractual (i.e., we were not required to announce a rescheduling by that particular date) and that we viewed their "deadline" as something theatrical, and not as an absolute date by which ASU had to (or was actually going to) file a lawsuit, particularly if their threats were verbal and were never committed to a formal demand letter. Finally, I would point out that UM did not take advantage of any negotiating efforts or any other delay in order to file our lawsuit in bad faith (i.e., while the other side was "playing nice", we took advantage to file our lawsuit first).

There is enough space between their CONTRACTUAL claims (i.e., we should have to reschedule them in the next year or two) and OUR contractual claims (we should be excused under force majeure) that it is entirely possible that ASU loses on that point alone. There are legit reasons why you would bring a "hurricane allows escape under force majeure" case in Dade County, and not in Shawshank, Arkansas.

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Whether it’s a strong point by itself or not, you have a good explanation. But my question is this, is 3) their strongest claim of those that were mentioned in that paragraph? Even if you only judge that “strength” to be a 20% chance of success,
 
Give them Feagles, Rosier, and Little Richt. Maybe throw in Milo, Martin and $1.34 and that should do it.
 
If I recall correctly, every negotiated provision that involved striking out template language was done in Arkansas State’s favor (such as striking out Florida as the governing law). That said, I’d be surprised if UM doesn’t win this in Miami-Dade circuit court. It’d be about as stunning as when Willie Falcon and Sal Magluta were originally found not guilty.
 
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So does ASU have a strong argument? Because with my layman’s eyes it sounds like #3 is a strong point for them, The first 2 sound debatable to me, but the third sounds like a strong point for them or am I reading it wrong?

You’re not reading anything wrong.
It’s more that you’re reading my 2 sentence summary of Arkansas State’s 23 page Motion (with 30 pages of attachments).
Plus, UM recently filed its Response in Opposition, which is 19 pages (with 16 pages of attachments).
Assuming the hearing does occur tomorrow, we’ll be one step closer to having a judge determine the strength of their Motion.
 
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