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Does anyone know the current statuts of the Arky State vs. The U litigation?

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Nah they are waiting for rosier to get his balance and for the receivers to slow down before they make a decision .
 
docpoco said:
Arkansas State fan here, but I have all my teeth. Interesting reading the thread here.

I'm genuinely curious and not looking to mock anyone or act like the hurricane didn't really suck for you guys - but for those of you who don't think Arkansas State has a case here... why?

We had mutual open dates sooner than 2024 & 2025 but your AD didn't want to schedule it then.

If the game isn't returned, then Miami got a home money game for 300K. Whereas, we just received 1.7 Million from Alabama, and will get 1.9 Million from Georgia.

In addition, Arkansas State lost a home game - and a game in general. The estimated economic impact was well into the millions.

And at the end of the day, it's not that Miam couldn't play the game - no one disputes that. They chose not to. I'm not arguing that decision.

I'm just making the point...

Do you guys not see this from our side a bit too?
Click to expand...



We have tried to explain this before, but your fans crap all over it. Are you going to actually listen?

First, you don't have a case because the contract SUCKED. The contract does not mandate "mutual open dates". That's some concept that you invented. Some jag-off A-State website administrator went on some crappy "future schedules" website and turned it into a thing.

Here's what you have to understand. Games are rescheduled all the time. Mizzou dropped out of a contract they had with Miami when they joined the SEC. That is "non-weather" rescheduling. If we had done that to A-State, then the "reschedule as early as possible" might be a valid issue. But it's not, due to the second issue.

So, number two, regardless of whether A-State wants to admit it, or live with it, Power Five teams that are trying to build a case for the Final Four cannot simply schedule 4 crappy OOC games. It would be easy for our AD to schedule FIU, FAU, Bethune-Cookman, and FAMU in the same year. ****, we would then have 8 home games. AWESOME, right? No. We need to schedule at least 2 of our 4 OOC games each year with a level of competition that will not be downgraded by the selection committee. UCF probably lost out on a chance to make the Final Four last year because its best Power Five game (Georgia Tech) had to be cancelled due to hurricane. The same thing might happen this year if they are unable to reschedule the North Carolina game.

In short, even though A-State would love to play "as soon as possible", it's not for you to look at our future schedule and point out a hole. Our AD is trying to balance out our home and away games, and the quality of our competition, so that if we happen to go 11-1 or 10-2 in the regular season, we have the best possible shot to make the Final Four.

As for your irrelevant points about what Alabama just paid you or what Georgia will pay you, that has no bearing on anything. The game you played in Miami was earlier. We all know that the price of one-off home games is increasing. Nobody disputes that. But you don't get to use a future contractual payout to go back and rewrite an old contract.

As for your "estimated economic impact", seriously...and I mean this seriously...go fvck yourself. If Miami had done everything A-State fans claim "they wanted", we would have flown to Arkansas mid-week, our fans would not have shown up, many of your fans would not have shown up, and all of your precious hotels and restaurants would have lost all that money ANYHOW. Seriously.

In all honesty, by the time that I got to the end of your post, I wanted to punch you in the throat, because you just keep repeating the same old tired BULLSH!TE that loser A-State fans have been repeating ever since..."waaaah, waaah, waaah, we lost millions [NOT TRUE] because Miami CHOSE not to play the game".

This is why we can't have nice conversations. This is why we can't "see this from your side a bit too".

You refuse to be intellectually honest. You refuse to confront reality. You refuse to put yourself in the shoes of ANYONE facing a Category Five hurricane.

IT'S NOT ABOUT YOU. IT'S NOT ABOUT YOUR PATHETIC HOTELS AND RESTAURANTS. IT'S NOT ABOUT YOU HAVING 11 OR 12 GAMES.

It is, quite simply, about your horrible fans and your horrible AD having the disgusting temerity to try to shame us for making a HUMAN decision to allow our students to be with their families, to protect their loved ones and their homes, to NOT CHOOSE to fly away from danger and live in your oh-so-generously-offered hotel rooms in Arkansas while the rest of their families faced God-knows-what.

Seriously, will even one A-State fan EVER SHOW UP HERE and have an honest conversation?

1. It wasn't a choice. The ENTIRE UNIVERSITY shut down. The ENTIRE STATE shut down.
2. Your precious community didn't lose a dime. If we played the game early, NO FANS FROM MIAMI WERE COMING. Some of your own fanbase would not have shown up for a Thursday or Friday game. If you want to support your local hotels and restaurants, feel free to do so, but stop blaming us for not coming to a mid-week game on 2 days notice.
3. If you want Miami to come to A-State so badly, then stop slandering us, stop shaming us, stop blaming us, and acknowledge that a Power Five school's scheduling is not all about "first available Saturday", and accept the timeframe that we have offered to you.

This has NOTHING to do with A-State. Miami has, and will continue to, plan for hurricane-impact situations. We will take the same exact actions in the future for non-conference games. The myth of "Miami ducked us because we ALMOST beat Nebraska or our locker rooms suck or they don't have any respect for us" is the dumbest thing we have ever heard, and we can't figure out why people who claim to be intelligent would even fall for such nonsense.

But here we are.

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docpoco said:
The hurricane sucks but I think its interesting that you still think Miami has no obligation on their end. Just a bargain home game.
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Why are you whining about a "bargain home game"? Why don't you blame your AD for negotiating such a terrible contract? Maybe instead of striking out the forum selection clause, he should have negotiated more precise terms in the event of having to reschedule due to a hurricane. After all, we are the MIAMI HURRICANES.

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There are 5 games postponed this weekend due to Hurricane Florence. Has it been announced how each game is being rescheduled? This could become helpful evidence if other schools treat it the same way UM did.
 
For the record, here is Mr. Nice Guy (docpoco) opining (and lying) on the A-State board (which will not the response I made to this particular false post):

"
docpoco
  • (1478)
  • 159 months
9 hours ago

asujohn said... (original post)
Wouldn't mediation show some leaning to State's position? It cleans up the court docket but why order mediation if you don't think damage is owed?​
We have some pretty qualified folks on here to weigh in on this, and I'm not one...

That said, the fact that he didn't hear arguments to dismiss the case doesn't mean much, since it was our motion to dismiss in attempts to bring the lawsuit back here since this is where the "damages occurred"

I would assume he knows that it's pretty clear cut for Miami - they really don't legally have any grounds for argument as their coach actually said "sure, we could have played the game" and everyone else found a way to play theirs.

Seems to me like a way to save Miami at least a little money when he knows their case is DOA.



This is yet another lie told by Arkansas State fans. No. Wrong. "Everyone else" did NOT "find a way to play theirs". This is a lying lie.

And don't even get me started on the hillbilly lawyers who started yapping AFTER docpoco's post, talking about how the payout needs to be indexed to current payouts or "inflation".

Here's the actual truth. Miami filed suit to be excused from the contract under force majeure, and we filed in Dade County. A-State filed to dismiss. Thus, the Dade court can only rule one of two ways, by either dismissing Miami's lawsuit, or allowing Miami's lawsuit to continue. If Miami's lawsuit continues, and Miami wins in Dade County (highly likely), A-State gets ZERO-POINT-ZERO. If the Dade court felt that Miami was wrong, it could have immediately dismissed UM's case and allowed the Arkansas case to proceed.

Thus, this is what is actually happening. By ordering mediation, the judge is often signalling that he/she does not want to rule in a way that is going to leave one party with absolutely nothing. By its very nature, mediation is likely to produce a settlement amount that is somewhere between the amounts offered by the two parties (A-State wants the contractual cancellation fee, Miami is offering zero). Thus, the command to mediate first indicates that the judge feels like a settlement of a couple hundred thousand is a better outcome than his/her likely ruling in favor of Miami, which leaves A-State with nothing.

Or, hey, you could believe the hicks on A-State's board who are CONVINCED that this is some sort of victory for them, that will result in a payout that is DOUBLE what the contract calls for.

Some days, you just like to go on other boards purely for the comedy.

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docpoco
  • (1478)
  • 159 months
8 hours ago

Arkstfan said... (original post)
Both judges have told the parties to try mediation.​
It blows my mind how ridiculous Miami fans are. Like, they are so unreasonable and unlikeable, that global warming and sea levels rising don't seem like such a bad thing.

How they think that we should be happy eating millions in losses, and letting them have a 300k home money game, not because they couldn't play a game, but because they chose not to.

It makes me ready for this game to be rescheduled instead of payouts. It would eat them alive to have to come to Jonesboro again.



Questions for docpoco:

1. Does docpoco realize that the elevation of Jonesboro, Arkansas is 259 feet above sea level? Does he not understand what "sea levels rising" will mean? Does he think that Miami is the only place that will flood?

2. What are these "millions in losses"? And who lost it? Hotels? Restaurants? It sure as **** wasn't "Arkansas State" proper? Where is the settlement offer for UM to pay "millions" to local hotels and restaurants? Oh, wait, it's NOT about "economic impact"? Oh, right. Miami should pay a university (which has insurance) for the "lost economic impact" to local businesses. Sure. Makes sense.

3. I am confused by how the "300K home money game" keeps coming up in conversation. Why are we to be blamed for A-State's poor negotiations? What if we paid them 600K in a cancellation fee? That is still "900K for a home money game", which, last time I checked, was well below market price. Why are we to blame? Shouldn't the A-State AD be fired for negotiating such a bad deal, and not including more precise language as to hurricane cancellation?

4. How in God's name would it "eat them alive" to "come to Jonesboro again"? And when did we go to Jonesboro the first time? This sentence is so confusing. How is the (I'm just guessing here) opinion of fans "eating themselves alive" relevant to what the University of Miami should do? Is he arguing that the University itself would eat itself?

Sooooo many questions. I'm not trying to be mean-spirited or anything, but it really does call the intellectual capabilities of Arkansas State graduates and fans into question when they can't figure out these logical issues. It's all about their feelings.

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TheOriginalCane said:
We have tried to explain this before, but your fans crap all over it. Are you going to actually listen?

First, you don't have a case because the contract SUCKED. The contract does not mandate "mutual open dates". That's some concept that you invented. Some jag-off A-State website administrator went on some crappy "future schedules" website and turned it into a thing.

Here's what you have to understand. Games are rescheduled all the time. Mizzou dropped out of a contract they had with Miami when they joined the SEC. That is "non-weather" rescheduling. If we had done that to A-State, then the "reschedule as early as possible" might be a valid issue. But it's not, due to the second issue.

So, number two, regardless of whether A-State wants to admit it, or live with it, Power Five teams that are trying to build a case for the Final Four cannot simply schedule 4 crappy OOC games. It would be easy for our AD to schedule FIU, FAU, Bethune-Cookman, and FAMU in the same year. ****, we would then have 8 home games. AWESOME, right? No. We need to schedule at least 2 of our 4 OOC games each year with a level of competition that will not be downgraded by the selection committee. UCF probably lost out on a chance to make the Final Four last year because its best Power Five game (Georgia Tech) had to be cancelled due to hurricane. The same thing might happen this year if they are unable to reschedule the North Carolina game.

In short, even though A-State would love to play "as soon as possible", it's not for you to look at our future schedule and point out a hole. Our AD is trying to balance out our home and away games, and the quality of our competition, so that if we happen to go 11-1 or 10-2 in the regular season, we have the best possible shot to make the Final Four.

As for your irrelevant points about what Alabama just paid you or what Georgia will pay you, that has no bearing on anything. The game you played in Miami was earlier. We all know that the price of one-off home games is increasing. Nobody disputes that. But you don't get to use a future contractual payout to go back and rewrite an old contract.

As for your "estimated economic impact", seriously...and I mean this seriously...go fvck yourself. If Miami had done everything A-State fans claim "they wanted", we would have flown to Arkansas mid-week, our fans would not have shown up, many of your fans would not have shown up, and all of your precious hotels and restaurants would have lost all that money ANYHOW. Seriously.

In all honesty, by the time that I got to the end of your post, I wanted to punch you in the throat, because you just keep repeating the same old tired BULLSH!TE that loser A-State fans have been repeating ever since..."waaaah, waaah, waaah, we lost millions [NOT TRUE] because Miami CHOSE not to play the game".

This is why we can't have nice conversations. This is why we can't "see this from your side a bit too".

You refuse to be intellectually honest. You refuse to confront reality. You refuse to put yourself in the shoes of ANYONE facing a Category Five hurricane.

IT'S NOT ABOUT YOU. IT'S NOT ABOUT YOUR PATHETIC HOTELS AND RESTAURANTS. IT'S NOT ABOUT YOU HAVING 11 OR 12 GAMES.

It is, quite simply, about your horrible fans and your horrible AD having the disgusting temerity to try to shame us for making a HUMAN decision to allow our students to be with their families, to protect their loved ones and their homes, to NOT CHOOSE to fly away from danger and live in your oh-so-generously-offered hotel rooms in Arkansas while the rest of their families faced God-knows-what.

Seriously, will even one A-State fan EVER SHOW UP HERE and have an honest conversation?

1. It wasn't a choice. The ENTIRE UNIVERSITY shut down. The ENTIRE STATE shut down.
2. Your precious community didn't lose a dime. If we played the game early, NO FANS FROM MIAMI WERE COMING. Some of your own fanbase would not have shown up for a Thursday or Friday game. If you want to support your local hotels and restaurants, feel free to do so, but stop blaming us for not coming to a mid-week game on 2 days notice.
3. If you want Miami to come to A-State so badly, then stop slandering us, stop shaming us, stop blaming us, and acknowledge that a Power Five school's scheduling is not all about "first available Saturday", and accept the timeframe that we have offered to you.

This has NOTHING to do with A-State. Miami has, and will continue to, plan for hurricane-impact situations. We will take the same exact actions in the future for non-conference games. The myth of "Miami ducked us because we ALMOST beat Nebraska or our locker rooms suck or they don't have any respect for us" is the dumbest thing we have ever heard, and we can't figure out why people who claim to be intelligent would even fall for such nonsense.

But here we are.

.
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Great post!
 
So the gist of the argument is now not that we wouldn't have kicked your ***, but we need to pay more money to kick your ***.

You know, I might be wrong, but I think Arkansas is very prone to flooding conditions.

Lets say that a flood came about near your stadium, killing several people and wrecking homes, yet the stadium was ready to play football in.

...How might your fanbase feel about Miami if we said, "Ah, you're cancelling the game because you're afraid of us. ****, you can put the families of your football players in hotels. We're going to sue you if you don't play us."

Seriously, I have heard that argument from your fanbase in relation to us. And it stinks.

Seriously, **** you. *IF* you play us, we're probably going to headhunt. I wouldn't blame the players one bit for chopping knees either.
 
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docpoco said:
Arkansas State fan here, but I have all my teeth. Interesting reading the thread here.

I'm genuinely curious and not looking to mock anyone or act like the hurricane didn't really suck for you guys - but for those of you who don't think Arkansas State has a case here... why?

We had mutual open dates sooner than 2024 & 2025 but your AD didn't want to schedule it then.

If the game isn't returned, then Miami got a home money game for 300K. Whereas, we just received 1.7 Million from Alabama, and will get 1.9 Million from Georgia.

In addition, Arkansas State lost a home game - and a game in general. The estimated economic impact was well into the millions.

And at the end of the day, it's not that Miam couldn't play the game - no one disputes that. They chose not to. I'm not arguing that decision.

I'm just making the point...

Do you guys not see this from our side a bit too?
Click to expand...

That's completely fair, as far as the money goes.

But do you not remember the complete and utter callousness at the time of the hurricane in which fans and officials alike scoffed at the concern of the Miami players and coaches and said things like "but they'll be away from the hurricane for the game"? And saying so without concern for families and property who would necessarily remain in Miami? Or how said players and coaches would necessarily be distracted at the time of the game? For a hurricane which, at the time, was being touted as potentially as bad as Andrew or Katrina?

I suspect the grievous animosity you've seen and experienced directed toward you and your fellow Red Wolves is a direct consequence of this aforementioned callousness.

Miami's obligation is to reschedule the game to another date, and as soon as is feasible. Looking at already-booked non-conference schedules, it looks like earliest availability on Miami's side is perhaps 2021, although I have no idea how that lines up with the countless variables that are considered in creating future schedules (including Ark St's schedule). 2024 could very well be the earliest, and I'm not sure what information you have that would unambiguously suggest otherwise. Miami should only need to compensate Arkansas State financially for not scheduling a make-up date, or at least making a good effort in doing so. It's an either-or: money or make-up game. I don't think your complaint can be easily defended.
 
PanteraCanes said:
I believe the language for rescheduling was kind of vague correct? So what is it you guys have against waiting for the dates that were asked by Miami? I know you want the home game and money earlier, but do you think it will be in less in a couple of years?

As far as feeling that there were mutual dates earlier that worked for both I am not sure how much we can say that is true. Maybe there were no announced games on certain weeks but does that mean that Miami had not already agreed or was working with other teams on those dates previously? Maybe also would prefer to maintain a certain strength of schedule each year to help with playoff hopes and with bowl eligibility? So while there might have been open dates earlier it would hurt Miami to schedule those instead of a higher level school.

I would also believe the lack of professionalism your school showed in trying to blackmail publicly through the media does not help in wanting to be more flexible in the negotiations. I seem to remember your school demanding the game be played regardless on that date while the entire state was being put in a state of disaster.

Would you also not agree that you guys even getting a home game was an oddity that seemingly only this schools previous administration would agree to? It would seem to me that if this home game was this important to you guys and such a windfall that you would want more in the future? Do you think the best method to get Miami and other big football programs interested in this is to (A) work with the program and do what you can to accommodate for it or (B) start blasting the other program publicly through the media and try and pressure and blackmail for a game to be played during a natural disaster? It really seems like the way you and App State have handle things that this would put any progress for your schools and other of their status to have more of these games even further at zero.
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Well, the problem with the dates that Miami offered was that it would be ten years after the initial game in Miami, and our AD said that's now how home and home deals work. Ten years is too far out. Plus, there is the thought that Miami could cancel the game then and pay the $650k, which when counting inflation over that time would work out to be much less than what was stipulated. The problem wasn't Miami cancelling the game, most everyone understood why it was done. The issue was the dates the Miami AD offered. That became the big problem. Incidentally, just to clarify..someone stated that the case could be moved to federal court in an earlier post. The ASU suit was filed in Federal court in Craighead County.
 
asuato said:
Well, the problem with the dates that Miami offered was that it would be ten years after the initial game in Miami, and our AD said that's now how home and home deals work. Ten years is too far out. Plus, there is the thought that Miami could cancel the game then and pay the $650k, which when counting inflation over that time would work out to be much less than what was stipulated. The problem wasn't Miami cancelling the game, most everyone understood why it was done. The issue was the dates the Miami AD offered. That became the big problem. Incidentally, just to clarify..someone stated that the case could be moved to federal court in an earlier post. The ASU suit was filed in Federal court in Craighead County.
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I believe your AD was talking to anybody who would listen saying that they could accommodate for the game to still happen that week. At the same time was also bringing up the Miami schedule that ESPN had as trying to prove there were dates it could be rescheduled. This was all while the weather stations were talking about how it was going to be the biggest and highest wind storm in history and it had not even hit Florida yet. While a large portion of the state was evacuating your AD was trying to use the media to publicly pressure Miami to still play the game.
 
avax said:
According to the Associated Press, the judge overseeing the cases has ordered the two sides to take part in third-party mediation to settle the dispute. The judge has set a deadline of Dec. 20 to settle the dispute via mediation.

Judges sets Dec. 20 deadline for Miami, Arkansas State to settle dispute over canceled 2017 game
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See my post above from yesterday, September 13th at 10:02 am. I am glad the Associated Press agrees with me about mediation before year end, albeit their article was posted 5 hours after my post..... lol
 
PanteraCanes said:
I believe your AD was talking to anybody who would listen saying that they could accommodate for the game to still happen that week. At the same time was also bringing up the Miami schedule that ESPN had as trying to prove there were dates it could be rescheduled. This was all while the weather stations were talking about how it was going to be the biggest and highest wind storm in history and it had not even hit Florida yet. While a large portion of the state was evacuating your AD was trying to use the media to publicly pressure Miami to still play the game.
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Yup. And thats what makes this so disgusting.

"We'll put your players in hotels!"

Yeah, whatever.

If I was gifted as a 19 year old TE, and got a scholarship to play Miami, and this happened; I would be foaming at the mouth with anger. Yes, football is a way for colleges to make money.

But family is family. Period. I would be home, helping boarding up windows, getting the generator ready, getting water, etc.

As would many of our players would.
 
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Cane47 said:
See my post above from yesterday, September 13th at 10:02 am. I am glad the Associated Press agrees with me about mediation before year end, albeit their article was posted 5 hours after my post..... lol
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Just validating I guess. Lol
 
You guys are also missing something from their perspective. They live in Arkansas.
 
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