Do we really have the talent?

[Hcane]

Ed Reed wouldn't be considered a blue chip prospect. Therefore this argument is invalid.

That was 18 years ago. He would have been one today.

 

[Canes_U_Pride]

Somebody get cowboy a game ball for his post in this thread. Agreed 10000000000000%.

 

[DiegoCane]

Whose job is it to get talent?
Who has more talent in the Coastal?
Why are all the local studs turning their back on Miami?
What local studs on D want to play in this scheme?

 

[Deleted User]

Not one person thinks this team has as much talent from top to bottom as Alabama or FSU. Nobody was expecting to really compete for a National Title this year, with this team. But this team was more than talented enough to win the ******* coastal. This team has more Blue Chip players on it's roster than everyone on the schedule other than FSU. Anyone who doesn't see that is a ******* moron or Golden fanboy. Period.

Last I checked, this team was beating FSU all game and had the lead from the beginning of the game until the last 3 minutes. Don't ******* tell me this team can't compete with FSU or doesn't have the talent to beat FSU. Good coaches get their guys to play above their talent level. Somehow, Golden gets his to play way too far below theres.

I'm tired of excuses.

 

[WestEndZone]

Thats one thing Butch Davis was good at, finding Talent... he would grab a 2-3 star from South Florida over a 5 star f3om Texas because he could develop them.... most Texas recruits had the facilities in high school to already reach their goal or potential.... but that skinny 3 star with blazing speed and good skills

That's a good point. We had a former K-State coach swing by and talk to us for a long time about why he thought South Florida kids are so good in college. One thing he stressed was the fact that they are usually super underdeveloped in many ways. Their high school schemes are minimal to non-existent, and more importantly, the kids don't eat well. He was telling us that most South Florida recruits are getting the majority of their daily sustenance from vending machines. One offseason in a quality S&C/diet program and they really flourish.

 

[Hcane]

Al can't recruit. He doesn't know what he wants, and has no idea what type of team he wants to build. All he does is go after who people say is good, misses on most, and settles for ones no other top programs want.

 

[umhurricano]

Do we have the #s on the other teams in the ACC? On its face the argument is good: talent is probably as good a predictor of success as anything But you also have to acknowledge that history doesn't always predict the future. Also, citing Ed Reed and other outliers isn't particularly informative because things tend to regress to the mean: for every diamond in the rough you have a 5* bust so your average talent is a pretty good indicator.

I spent a fair amount of time looking at f/+ ratings for a pick 'em league I was in. Those rate teams based on statistics that have the strongest correlation to success. They are good directionally but not so good I would put serious money on them. Same with talent. Stars, these days, are a very good proxy for team ability but not definitive.

I don't think anyone actually believes any coach in college football would have taken our team to a national championship, but there is definitely a range of expectation based on our talent level and we were at the very bottom of that range. Would be interesting to see where others finished based on their talent.

 

[Hcane]

Blue-chip recruits

ACC

Team%'13-14
Florida State 56%
Clemson 42%
Miami 31%
Virginia Tech 19%
North Carolina 18%
Virginia 16%
Pitt 12%
Louisville 11%
Georgia Tech 4%
Syracuse 3%
N.C. State 3%
Boston College 1%
Wake Forest 0%
Duke 0%

 

[BigCaneAl]

You're forgetting the part about South Florida kids ROUTINELY out performing their recruiting ranking. I'm not going into the list, because you already know the examples.

The reality is that we, with like 2 or 3 bounces in our direction, had FSU dead to rights this year. We didn't lose because of talent.

We didn't lose to Louisiville, Nebraska, GT, etc because of talent.

We probably aren't talented enough to run the table, which you have to do out of the ACC to win a national title.

But we have enough talent to be in the Top 10 conversation. Ole Miss is not more talented than us. TCU is not more talented than us. Michigan State is not more talented than us.

And we would only strengthen our position if a greater percentage of the "head nodder" class filler kids we took were the underrated South Florida / State of Miami kids like Tony Jones...

We lost to FSU because of talent, sorry. Ramsey, Winston, Cook were the difference.

I'm not saying we are not under performing based on our talent. Just saying that it's not good enough.

Well, 5 of the teams we lost to sure didn't have a problem overcoming our superior blue chippers.

 

[BigCaneAl]

All this little exercise has done is simply prove our coaches really really do suck.

 

[Hcane]

You're forgetting the part about South Florida kids ROUTINELY out performing their recruiting ranking. I'm not going into the list, because you already know the examples.

The reality is that we, with like 2 or 3 bounces in our direction, had FSU dead to rights this year. We didn't lose because of talent.

We didn't lose to Louisiville, Nebraska, GT, etc because of talent.

We probably aren't talented enough to run the table, which you have to do out of the ACC to win a national title.

But we have enough talent to be in the Top 10 conversation. Ole Miss is not more talented than us. TCU is not more talented than us. Michigan State is not more talented than us.

And we would only strengthen our position if a greater percentage of the "head nodder" class filler kids we took were the underrated South Florida / State of Miami kids like Tony Jones...

We lost to FSU because of talent, sorry. Ramsey, Winston, Cook were the difference.

I'm not saying we are not under performing based on our talent. Just saying that it's not good enough.

Well, 5 of the teams we lost to sure didn't have a problem overcoming our superior blue chippers.

Most are not true blue-chip's. Al is a 2-star coach.

 

[DiegoCane]

All this little exercise has done is simply prove our coaches really really do suck.

Yeah I'm not sure what the OP is going for here.

That Al sucks as a coach and recruiter? If so, then he is spot on

 

[Hcane]

All this little exercise has done is simply prove our coaches really really do suck.

Yeah I'm not sure what the OP is going for here.

That Al sucks as a coach and recruiter? If so, then he is spot on

Yep

 

[Hcane]

Do we have the #s on the other teams in the ACC? On its face the argument is good: talent is probably as good a predictor of success as anything But you also have to acknowledge that history doesn't always predict the future. Also, citing Ed Reed and other outliers isn't particularly informative because things tend to regress to the mean: for every diamond in the rough you have a 5* bust so your average talent is a pretty good indicator.

I spent a fair amount of time looking at f/+ ratings for a pick 'em league I was in. Those rate teams based on statistics that have the strongest correlation to success. They are good directionally but not so good I would put serious money on them. Same with talent. Stars, these days, are a very good proxy for team ability but not definitive.

I don't think anyone actually believes any coach in college football would have taken our team to a national championship, but there is definitely a range of expectation based on our talent level and we were at the very bottom of that range. Would be interesting to see where others finished based on their talent.

Blue-chip recruits

ACC
Team%'13-14

Florida State 56%
Clemson 42%
Miami 31%
Virginia Tech 19%
North Carolina 18%
Virginia 16%
Pitt 12%
Louisville 11%
Georgia Tech 4%
Syracuse 3%
N.C. State 3%
Boston College 1%
Wake Forest 0%
Duke 0%

 

[dedostheibis]

if you can't get a top class in ******* south florida then you can't recruit period

 

[Hcane]

if you can't get a top class in ****ing south florida then you can't recruit period

Exactly

 

[BigCaneAl]

You're forgetting the part about South Florida kids ROUTINELY out performing their recruiting ranking. I'm not going into the list, because you already know the examples.

The reality is that we, with like 2 or 3 bounces in our direction, had FSU dead to rights this year. We didn't lose because of talent.

We didn't lose to Louisiville, Nebraska, GT, etc because of talent.

We probably aren't talented enough to run the table, which you have to do out of the ACC to win a national title.

But we have enough talent to be in the Top 10 conversation. Ole Miss is not more talented than us. TCU is not more talented than us. Michigan State is not more talented than us.

And we would only strengthen our position if a greater percentage of the "head nodder" class filler kids we took were the underrated South Florida / State of Miami kids like Tony Jones...

We lost to FSU because of talent, sorry. Ramsey, Winston, Cook were the difference.

I'm not saying we are not under performing based on our talent. Just saying that it's not good enough.

Well, 5 of the teams we lost to sure didn't have a problem overcoming our superior blue chippers.

Most are not true blue-chip's. Al is a 2-star coach.

Can't have it both ways though...our blue chippers can't be fake blue chippers and everyone else's are true blue chipper. Also, Al is a no-star coach. You're giving him way too much credit.

 

[Hcane]

You're forgetting the part about South Florida kids ROUTINELY out performing their recruiting ranking. I'm not going into the list, because you already know the examples.

The reality is that we, with like 2 or 3 bounces in our direction, had FSU dead to rights this year. We didn't lose because of talent.

We didn't lose to Louisiville, Nebraska, GT, etc because of talent.

We probably aren't talented enough to run the table, which you have to do out of the ACC to win a national title.

But we have enough talent to be in the Top 10 conversation. Ole Miss is not more talented than us. TCU is not more talented than us. Michigan State is not more talented than us.

And we would only strengthen our position if a greater percentage of the "head nodder" class filler kids we took were the underrated South Florida / State of Miami kids like Tony Jones...

We lost to FSU because of talent, sorry. Ramsey, Winston, Cook were the difference.

I'm not saying we are not under performing based on our talent. Just saying that it's not good enough.

Well, 5 of the teams we lost to sure didn't have a problem overcoming our superior blue chippers.

Most are not true blue-chip's. Al is a 2-star coach.

Can't have it both ways though...our blue chippers can't be fake blue chippers and everyone else's are true blue chipper. Also, Al is a no-star coach. You're giving him way too much credit.

Al's a fake coach. Why would he be able to get real blue-chip's? You're right, I did give him too much credit.

 

[Canejam]

I don't think its necessarily that we are missing blue-chip prospects, but rather Golden has kicked off something like 20 of his own recruits off his team since he's been here. Some of that was necessary especially in the case of the LBs this offseason, but with some of the other kids, I think he was too harsh. To me getting busted for pot like in the case of Gabe Terry does not constitute getting kicked off the team. AQM suspended for a WHOLE YEAR for a fight with his roommate. Who in college didn't get in a fight with their roommate at some point? Al probably doesn't want to fire D'No because he knows he dismissed half of D'No's players..

 

[cowboycane]

I don't think its necessarily that we are missing blue-chip prospects, but rather Golden has kicked off something like 20 of his own recruits off his team since he's been here. Some of that was necessary especially in the case of the LBs this offseason, but with some of the other kids, I think he was too harsh. To me getting busted for pot like in the case of Gabe Terry does not constitute getting kicked off the team. AQM suspended for a WHOLE YEAR for a fight with his roommate. Who in college didn't get in a fight with their roommate at some point? Al probably doesn't want to fire D'No because he knows he dismissed half of D'No's players..

Gabe Terry and AQM were not Al's call. Neither was Eddie. I would bet neither was Gionni.

Al is a ****** coach but let's also not forget that our admin does not have the pain threshold of some other schools.