Do stars matter? A look at the top teams & what it means for UM

CaneDog66

Junior
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May 8, 2018
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People need to stop pretending like Clemson was the little engine that could.

They were in the blue chip ratio when they won the NC. They continued to spend more and more money. Which allowed them to sign more and more elite coaches. Build their facilities up more and more.

Clemson didn’t just “slowly” do this. They basically got their alumni together and said, “get out your fucking checkbooks, because we’re about to become elite.”

Remember. Jumbo Fisher left FSU because they wouldn’t guarantee him they would spend like Clemson. They aren’t the underdog that just slowly built a foundation.
They also didn’t do it in 2-3yrs either. And is it really that simple to go to the alumni base and ask for handouts? If so, then we’re doomed. I’m more of a realist and understand that for any movement monetarily to occur we’re going to have to improve the product on the field, consistently year over year for at least a couple of ACC Coastal titles under our belts in a row before we’ll see a big uptick in season ticket sales or the coffers running over with funds for better things as you eluded to - coaches and/or facilities. We completed the latter with the new IPF. We can do more perhaps with the weight room and the locker room. We can’t do squat about the stadium improvements other than complain as a tenant. So that leaves coaches....I think we have the technicians we need to improve well enough to see 10+ wins in 2019, which will parlay into a Top 10 recruiting class and then the cycle continues into 2020. Rinse and repeat and suddenly you have 3-4 Top 10 classes, quality depth at most, if not all positions, and then finally consistency in landing a higher number of 4/5* players. Until we show we can do that year over year, as Clemson began to do, then we will remain mired where we are today.
 

Dwinstitles

All-American
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Nov 7, 2011
Messages
24,982
Both positions are true.

We will get more blue chip players.

We probably won’t sign best of the best top 5 classes like we would if we were willing and able to use enhanced recruiting techniques like our competition.

We sign four stars and occasional five stars NOW while we have sucked. It will improve. Probably not 2000-2003 results but much more fun seasons like 2017 without the collapse.

There is a difference between a loss and a humiliation. I would prefer the former over the latter we have seen too much of.
if we win we can reach 01 levels
 

Rellyrell

All-ACC
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Dec 19, 2013
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12,509
Totally disagree. You need to look back at Cane history, and then tell me about how stars matter. What you are, what your offensive and defense system is, players who will fit your systems, and, most importantly, the evaluations by your coaches, matter more than stars. Check out the star ratings of Canes teams under Howard, JJ, Dennis, and Butch. Everyone who is stuck on stars needs to understand how the star system works. First, the various entities involved are in it to sell their product. Second, there is no way they can see everyone they rate, and who are they to be doing evaluations in the first place? What's the most fertile recruiting ground...Florida, particularly South Florida. To sell their product they have to spread out the stars over the country. again, take a look at Canes history. I guaranty you, a 3 star from Dade county is a better athlete/player than a 4/5 star from most anywhere else. Want a couple of examples? Here's just 2. Russell Maryland, essentially unrated with no offers to speak of, signed only because Hubbard Alexander evaluated him. Or, how about Warren Sapp. He was a TE in high school. Evaluation and coaching beats Max Emfinger, et al. any day
Can we stop living in the past when internet, hudl, YouTube, and major recruiting services like Rivals & 247 didn’t exist?

Can we stop acting like we’ve had eyes for diamonds in the rough since Butch left?

What happened yesteryear was yesteryear. The facts r the facts. We just had an article outlying who’s competing and y, yet we still have blind fans saying “well back in 1980.” Wgaf what happened back then, b/c I GUARANTEE if the aforementioned player’s film were exposed like they are now, Sapp would be a high 4 to 5 star. Reed would be at least a high 3 star. Maryland would be a 4 star. These kids are exposed in ways that were NEVER available to them yesteryear.

So for the umpteenth time, Stars & recruiting classes matter. Not one year we’re top 10 and the next we’re top 30; no, we need to be specifically in the top 15 every year, and our class filled w blue chips. Our classes should have no less than a 45% blue chip clip. If it doesn’t, then Manny’s eye needs to be sharper than the Tiger and the development needs to be on some NFLesq type level.
 

OriginalGatorHater

Sophomore
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Jan 14, 2018
Messages
11,752
How about the DT from Houston. He wasn't highly rated yet he just went in the first round . Even Dono couldn't screw him up. There are others but I'm not going to spend the time searching. The problem had been that most of them the last decade have not been Hurricanes. Which goes to the article's no. 1 point: coaching matters. How have we stacked up coaching wise the last decade? Particularly their evaluation and development skills?

We've had Golden trying to recruit big 10 dough boys and ballooning guys Chickillo at the same time disciplining others (like Luther Robinson the DT from Jacksonville) for making plays rather than doing their "assignment". Which incidentally violates their no. 2 point for schools that won’t land a lot of elite level prospects: they understand their identity.
Another good example is that QB fro Clemson. I think his name is Trevor Lawrence. NOBODY wanted him, he wasn't highly rated at all and then he turns around and wins an NC. Unbelievable.
 

OriginalGatorHater

Sophomore
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Jan 14, 2018
Messages
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Can we stop living in the past when internet, hudl, YouTube, and major recruiting services like Rivals & 247 didn’t exist?

Can we stop acting like we’ve had eyes for diamonds in the rough since Butch left?

What happened yesteryear was yesteryear. The facts r the facts. We just had an article outlying who’s competing and y, yet we still have blind fans saying “well back in 1980.” Wgaf what happened back then, b/c I GUARANTEE if the aforementioned player’s film were exposed like they are now, Sapp would be a high 4 to 5 star. Reed would be at least a high 3 star. Maryland would be a 4 star. These kids are exposed in ways that were NEVER available to them yesteryear.

So for the umpteenth time, Stars & recruiting classes matter. Not one year we’re top 10 and the next we’re top 30; no, we need to be specifically in the top 15 every year, and our class filled w blue chips. Our classes should have no less than a 45% blue chip clip. If it doesn’t, then Manny’s eye needs to be sharper than the Tiger and the development needs to be on some NFLesq type level.
Who TF cares about stars??? Knute Rockne never had a 5 star recruit in his life and he won 3 nattys.
 

Ethnicsands

All-American
Joined
Nov 2, 2011
Messages
17,367
Simply chasing stars and attempting to win recruiting ranking contests..results in Shannon's O8' and Cokers overrated classes. They were overrated precisely because both of those coaches were poor evaluators and developers of talent. Compare that to Butch who was able to hit on his highly rated recruits (DJ and Kellen) as well as his under the radar recruits like Moss, Wayne, and Reed
I’m confused. Is someone here saying we should be ‘simply chasing stars’? I sure havent. Not sure what youre trying to say. The staff should not chase stars. It should chase GREAT PLAYERS. But if they come with stars, no excuses. Get them. If our staff is good enough to find Miami caliber kids amongst 3*s, then great. Get them. Prove it. No excuses.
 

craval85

ATLien
Joined
Dec 3, 2017
Messages
577
Can we stop living in the past when internet, hudl, YouTube, and major recruiting services like Rivals & 247 didn’t exist?

Can we stop acting like we’ve had eyes for diamonds in the rough since Butch left?

What happened yesteryear was yesteryear. The facts r the facts. We just had an article outlying who’s competing and y, yet we still have blind fans saying “well back in 1980.” Wgaf what happened back then, b/c I GUARANTEE if the aforementioned player’s film were exposed like they are now, Sapp would be a high 4 to 5 star. Reed would be at least a high 3 star. Maryland would be a 4 star. These kids are exposed in ways that were NEVER available to them yesteryear.

So for the umpteenth time, Stars & recruiting classes matter. Not one year we’re top 10 and the next we’re top 30; no, we need to be specifically in the top 15 every year, and our class filled w blue chips. Our classes should have no less than a 45% blue chip clip. If it doesn’t, then Manny’s eye needs to be sharper than the Tiger and the development needs to be on some NFLesq type level.

Yes stars matter, but coaching, and talent evaluation/development matter more. Much more. Who tf cares if MIA signs the 27th ranked class or the 8th ranked class, if it lacks the ability to properly coach & develop the talent? No matter the ranking every single class that MIA signs will ultimately be overrated. The last 15+ yrs prove that. Which is why as fans it's pointless to focus on recruiting rankings & blue chip ratios. Theres a self-regulating/correcting mechanism that exists in recruiting that needs to be accounted for
 

craval85

ATLien
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Dec 3, 2017
Messages
577
I’m confused. Is someone here saying we whould be ‘simply chasing stars’? I sure havent. Not sure what youre trying to say. The staff should not chase stars. It should chase GREAT PLAYERS. But if they come with stars, no excuses. Get them. If our staff is good enough to find Miami caliber kids amongst 3*s, then great. Get them. Prove it. No excuses.
I was agreeing with you, that what is most important is to recruit the RIGHT players irrespective of stars.
 

Ethnicsands

All-American
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Yes stars matter, but coaching, and talent evaluation/development matter more. Much more. Who tf cares if MIA signs the 27th ranked class or the 8th ranked class, if it lacks the ability to properly coach & develop the talent? No matter the ranking every single class that MIA signs will ultimately be overrated. The last 15+ yrs prove that. Which is why as fans it's pointless to focus on recruiting rankings & blue chip ratios. Theres a self-regulating/correcting mechanism that exists in recruiting that needs to be accounted for
You miss the point. It’s BOTH. Yes, bad coaching will ruin a program. But it requoes top talent to compete for national championships. Period. So we need both good coaching, and top talent, if we aspire to returning to winning titles.
 

craval85

ATLien
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Messages
577
You miss the point. It’s BOTH. Yes, bad coaching will ruin a program. But it requoes top talent to compete for national championships. Period. So we need both good coaching, and top talent, if we aspire to returning to winning titles.
I agree that you need both to win championships but in terms of importance I do not believe that they are both equal. You can actually be competitive and successful in CFB with good coaching & talent evaluation/development as evidenced by Wash St, Syracuse, Iowa, Iowa St, and Wisconsin. However the reverse is not true..as FSU proved last yr
 

Ethnicsands

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I agree that you need both to win championships but in terms of importance I do not believe that they are both equal. You can actually be competitive and successful in CFB with good coaching & talent evaluation/development as evidenced by Wash St, Syracuse, Iowa, Iowa St, and Wisconsin. However the reverse is not true..as FSU proved last yr
If your goal is just to be competitive with Syracuse and Iowa, then yes, better coaching will get us there. If your goal is to actually compete for CHAMPIONSHIPS, then nope, we cannot get there without elite talent.
 

craval85

ATLien
Joined
Dec 3, 2017
Messages
577
If your goal is just to be competitive with Syracuse and Iowa, then yes, better coaching will get us there. If your goal is to actually compete for CHAMPIONSHIPS, then nope, we cannot get there without elite talent.
1 step at a time..

 
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Dghustla

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Jan 29, 2012
Messages
2,439
Miami can and should follow the Clemson model the best they can. Hit high rated kids at the important positions and allow your success to build over time. Stack double-digit win seasons year after year. Hit on the QB and eventually, you'll be in the top 10 in CFB. After that, it's fair game. QB, RB, WR, DL
You have to win 1st or drop crazy bags to be able
To cherry pick and they do both.
 

NorthEastCane

Freshman
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Nov 5, 2011
Messages
1,061
Another good example is that QB fro Clemson. I think his name is Trevor Lawrence. NOBODY wanted him, he wasn't highly rated at all and then he turns around and wins an NC. Unbelievable.
This is getting stupid. I guess that's what I deserve, debating with imbeciles. :hammering-head: I'm done with this.
 

Don canon

End PAPI now, free the Miami offense in 2019.
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Just what this board needed, another thread about stars!!!!!!
 

Dwinstitles

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FALSE. Totally false.
False out the azz, Oliver was the 2nd ranked player that class. When u read shyt like that theres no point in even explaining it to those types of fans just let them be ignorant. There holding onto hope and it blinds them they cant see things for what they are because they want us back so bad they make these things fit there ideals. They dont want to see the truth
 

CanesFan93

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Jan 29, 2012
Messages
2,629
They also didn’t do it in 2-3yrs either.
Bingo. It took Dabo 4 years to get Clemson running. Their recruiting was up and down but became consistent once they showed that they could win 10+ games every season with an effective offense and tough D.

I do think if we have the right set of coaches that we could do it quicker.
 
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