Did we F up

TVD time is NOW…the football GODS have spoken…everything thing happen the way they did…Enjoy the ride Family…
 
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Should we have started with TVD and give him control from day one?

It appears that we should have given him the full playbook. If the D could keep up I feel like this would be a different season.

Didn't matter who started against Bama. Almost certainly a L.

Going into the weekend, Michigan St was the #8 team and just beat the #6 team. They are really, really good. Wouldn't matter if TVD started, the defense would still have given up 38 and likely held the O in check. We didn't have Rooster, who has turned out to be a difference maker too. So that game is still an L.

Record would be exactly the same. Gaynor would still have been a huge liability at center, Rooster wasn't available against Michigan St. and the D would still be a sieve. More importantly, Lashlee would still not have trusted his RS freshman QB and would have restricted the playbook.
 
Our fan base is extremely fickle & unappreciative, we rival only Penn St & Ole Miss fans in those categories...

King carried this fckin team on his back last year, he was the reason why we even had an 8-3 record & would’ve been 9-3 if we played our full schedule but couldn’t because of covid.

We actually might’ve had an even better season last year if we played our original schedule, we would’ve played Mich St (before they became the top 10 team they are today), Temple, Wagner & Wake Forest.

He layed it all on the line for this team & won us games where he was clearly the best player on the field, how soon they forget how he played against LVille, NC St, FSU & how he lead us to a comeback victory vs VA Tech.

Plus it seems that people have forgotten how TVD played vs UVA & UNC, he’s been getting better but our fans are always so quick to anoint one QB after a couple games & trash another, but as soon as TVD has a bad game or two the same people trashing King will be trashing TVD & calling for Garcia.

It’s a false narrative that TVD would’ve won us more games if he started from game 1, the fact is, we’re barely winning games with him now because despite how well he’s played the last two weeks we still have one of the worst defenses in the ACC & that’s the main culprit as to why we lost all 4 of the games we’ve lost this year.
Post of the day....so true. CIS has the Monday Morningest of Monday Morning QBs.
 
Bama would've eaten TVD alive. He wasn't ready.
Thank god we didn’t start TVD. We kept it close.
Ashley Olsen Reaction GIF by Filmeditor
 
@TimeBum Ahh Michigan State is not a really really good team. They are decent. And if you know about today's game you know that Michigan gave the game away and practically every controversial and not so controversial call went their way. They beat a losing Nebraska team by 3 points and a really woeful Indiana team by 5 and had to slug it out with powerhouse Western Kentucky.

And forget TVD if King had been healthy the whole game the Canes could have pulled it off. There qb was stinking up the place. And they really only had one receiver as a weapon and the other was the running back which the U bottled up pretty good in the first half. A better coach would have doubled that receiver and brought more folks in the box on obvious running downs. (But of course even then you got to get the back on the ground)

Remember we could have gone up 14-3 but Mallory dropped the easiest pass in the end zone. And on MSU's first scoring drive Kam Kinchens dropped an interception in the end zone that could possibly have been run back for a big gain. And then right at the end of the half the defense gave up a big play that lead to them scoring right before the half. MSU didn't think they could beat the U until they realized how poor tacklers the D was and that King wasn't able to throw downfield. Can't revise history.
 
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King was great last szn, but he is extremely limited as a passer. I’ve posted his deep ball accuracy stats several times. He simply can’t stretch the field.

Once Clemson exposed him last year, that was it. Stack 8 in the box and make him beat you deep. He can’t.

Great kid, great athlete, limited QB.
This. The offense looks a lot different because Lashlee isn’t calling plays with one hand tied behind his back. King was a good deep ball passer at Houston but never looked comfortable throwing downfield here. The offense was more tailored to his athletic ability and not his throwing ability. It’s why we looked like Auburn under Malzahn so much last year. With how poor the line run blocks, they really put way too much on King’s legs, literally and figuratively. If opponents want to load the box now, they will get beat over the top.
 
@TimeBum Ahh Michigan State is not a really really good team. They are decent. And if you know about today's game you know that Michigan gave the game away and practically every controversial and not so controversial call went their way. They beat a losing Nebraska team by 3 points and a really woeful Indiana team by 5 and had to slug it out with powerhouse Western Kentucky.

And forget TVD if King had been healthy the whole game the Canes could have pulled it off. There qb was stinking up the place. And they really only had one receiver as a weapon and the other was the running back which the U bottled up pretty good in the first half. A better coach would have doubled that receiver and brought more folks in the box on obvious running downs. (But of course even then you got to get the back on the ground)

Remember we could have gone up 14-3 but Mallory dropped the easiest pass in the end zone. And on MSU's first scoring drive Kam Kinchens dropped an interception in the end zone that could possibly have been run back for a big gain. And then right at the end of the half the defense gave up a big play that lead to them scoring right before the half. MSU didn't think they could beat the U until they realized how poor tacklers the D was and that King wasn't able to throw downfield. Can't revise history.

Whether MSU is really good team or just a decent team isnt particularly relevant to this discussion. Either way they are not pushovers. You pointed out the Mallory drop, the bad tackling, and the bad coaching. TVD starting instead of King (which is what I thought this thread is about) changes none of those things. Could UM have won with a healthy King? Yes. Could we have beaten UNC and UVA if King had been 100%? Yes. Maybe Diaz trusts King more than TVD at the end of the UVA game, and tries for the TD instead of running out the clock because he was scared TVD would make a rookie mistake.

I think this game is the first one I can point to and feel certain King could not have won it. I just watched the replay and that TD pass to KSmith was elite. He put it in the exact spot it had to be. King cannot make that throw (and he missed on a ton of deep throws last year so he probably misses some other big plays against Pitt as well. TVD was deadly accurate on his deep tosses)

TVD played at an extremely high level. I was critical of him for the INT but on the rewatch I understand why he made the throw. Rambo and Harley both fell, which I believe he saw. Harley had plenty of time to get up and catch the ball. For whatever reason, Harley decided to stay sitting on his *** instead of getting up. Maybe he was looking around for a flag. TVD threw the ball to where he expected Harley to be once he stood up.
 
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Manny promised King the job before he transferred. No way would he have started DVD. That said, there were rumors that Lashlee and King did not see eye to eye.
And this is why you never promise anyone anything. Especially the most important position on the team. Other guys, even if they like him, will have it in the back of their minds that one guy was handed the job, while everyone else had to work for it. Then when the one guy who was handed the job doesn't play as well as expected, things can get toxic in a hurry. I think we were seeing some of that at the end of last season, and even at the start of this season. ****, Perry bolted knowing the starting job was going right back to King as soon as he was healthy enough to play. Perry had his faults, but I think the O looked far better when he came in against Oklahoma State. That was pretty eye opening for me. When the backup comes in and runs the O to **** near perfection, it certainly makes you ask some questions about the starter.

Now another backup QB comes in and the O looks better, again.
 
Our fan base is extremely fickle & unappreciative, we rival only Penn St & Ole Miss fans in those categories...

King carried this fckin team on his back last year, he was the reason why we even had an 8-3 record & would’ve been 9-3 if we played our full schedule but couldn’t because of covid.

We actually might’ve had an even better season last year if we played our original schedule, we would’ve played Mich St (before they became the top 10 team they are today), Temple, Wagner & Wake Forest.

He layed it all on the line for this team & won us games where he was clearly the best player on the field, how soon they forget how he played against LVille, NC St, FSU & how he lead us to a comeback victory vs VA Tech.

Plus it seems that people have forgotten how TVD played vs UVA & UNC, he’s been getting better but our fans are always so quick to anoint one QB after a couple games & trash another, but as soon as TVD has a bad game or two the same people trashing King will be trashing TVD & calling for Garcia.

It’s a false narrative that TVD would’ve won us more games if he started from game 1, the fact is, we’re barely winning games with him now because despite how well he’s played the last two weeks we still have one of the worst defenses in the ACC & that’s the main culprit as to why we lost all 4 of the games we’ve lost this year.
Exactly! Plus the intangibles that he brought. No way TVD is this good without the mentoring of King
 
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The staff did not F up by starting King v. Alabama.

We did F up by continuing to play King the next two games when he was being held together with bubblegum and toothpicks.

With that said, our 1-2 record with D'Eriq King would have been no different than with Tyler Van Dyke.

I guess if you think we would have won those one-score losses over UVA and UNC with a TVD running start...ok.
 
The staff did not F up by starting King v. Alabama.

We did F up by continuing to play King the next two games when he was being held together with bubblegum and toothpicks.

With that said, our 1-2 record with D'Eriq King would have been no different than with Tyler Van Dyke.

I guess if you think we would have won those one-score losses over UVA and UNC with a TVD running start...ok.
If TVD's first games are against App ST and Mich St then by the time we play UVA and UNC Lashlee would've opened up the playbook for him a la Pitt and NCST.

But whatevs, it's a sacrifice I'm willing to make if it means Mancheese and Bake Sale Snake get decapitated at season's end.
 
I think that the question needs to be posed differently.

Could we have won all those games (sans Bama) with today’s version of TVD? The answer is clearly, yes. Should we have started TVD against Bama, absolutely not.
 
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King is a leader among men. We had to start him if he was 100%. He was not 100%. Pretty clear TVD’s skill set works better in this system. I ❤️ King and what he brought to the team but seeing the Canes sling the rock like this is something.
 
Manny promised King the job before he transferred. No way would he have started DVD. That said, there were rumors that Lashlee and King did not see eye to eye.
King’s ability to make the correct reads in many of the RPO plays this year we’re REALLY holding this offense back

In addition to coming back too soon and other injuries
 
Should we have started with TVD and give him control from day one?

It appears that we should have given him the full playbook. If the D could keep up I feel like this would be a different season.
Manny Fvcked up personnel up and down the roster. Lashlee fvcked up keeping handcuffs on TVD. BOT fvcked up not firing Blake and manny after unc.

The D wasn’t the problem in the losses.
 
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@TimeBum Ahh Michigan State is not a really really good team. They are decent. And if you know about today's game you know that Michigan gave the game away and practically every controversial and not so controversial call went their way. They beat a losing Nebraska team by 3 points and a really woeful Indiana team by 5 and had to slug it out with powerhouse Western Kentucky.

And forget TVD if King had been healthy the whole game the Canes could have pulled it off. There qb was stinking up the place. And they really only had one receiver as a weapon and the other was the running back which the U bottled up pretty good in the first half. A better coach would have doubled that receiver and brought more folks in the box on obvious running downs. (But of course even then you got to get the back on the ground)

Remember we could have gone up 14-3 but Mallory dropped the easiest pass in the end zone. And on MSU's first scoring drive Kam Kinchens dropped an interception in the end zone that could possibly have been run back for a big gain. And then right at the end of the half the defense gave up a big play that lead to them scoring right before the half. MSU didn't think they could beat the U until they realized how poor tacklers the D was and that King wasn't able to throw downfield. Can't revise history.
They’re a mirage just like us in 17. But they’re winning so whatever.
 
Our fan base is extremely fickle & unappreciative, we rival only Penn St & Ole Miss fans in those categories...

King carried this fckin team on his back last year, he was the reason why we even had an 8-3 record & would’ve been 9-3 if we played our full schedule but couldn’t because of covid.

We actually might’ve had an even better season last year if we played our original schedule, we would’ve played Mich St (before they became the top 10 team they are today), Temple, Wagner & Wake Forest.

He layed it all on the line for this team & won us games where he was clearly the best player on the field, how soon they forget how he played against LVille, NC St, FSU & how he lead us to a comeback victory vs VA Tech.

Plus it seems that people have forgotten how TVD played vs UVA & UNC, he’s been getting better but our fans are always so quick to anoint one QB after a couple games & trash another, but as soon as TVD has a bad game or two the same people trashing King will be trashing TVD & calling for Garcia.

It’s a false narrative that TVD would’ve won us more games if he started from game 1, the fact is, we’re barely winning games with him now because despite how well he’s played the last two weeks we still have one of the worst defenses in the ACC & that’s the main culprit as to why we lost all 4 of the games we’ve lost this year.
And people want to RUN IT BACK with Manny who RUNS this abomination of a defense.
 
Our fan base is extremely fickle & unappreciative, we rival only Penn St & Ole Miss fans in those categories...

King carried this fckin team on his back last year, he was the reason why we even had an 8-3 record & would’ve been 9-3 if we played our full schedule but couldn’t because of covid.

We actually might’ve had an even better season last year if we played our original schedule, we would’ve played Mich St (before they became the top 10 team they are today), Temple, Wagner & Wake Forest.

He layed it all on the line for this team & won us games where he was clearly the best player on the field, how soon they forget how he played against LVille, NC St, FSU & how he lead us to a comeback victory vs VA Tech.

Plus it seems that people have forgotten how TVD played vs UVA & UNC, he’s been getting better but our fans are always so quick to anoint one QB after a couple games & trash another, but as soon as TVD has a bad game or two the same people trashing King will be trashing TVD & calling for Garcia.

It’s a false narrative that TVD would’ve won us more games if he started from game 1, the fact is, we’re barely winning games with him now because despite how well he’s played the last two weeks we still have one of the worst defenses in the ACC & that’s the main culprit as to why we lost all 4 of the games we’ve lost this year.
100% Fact. What have you done for me lately.
 
They’re a mirage just like us in 17. But they’re winning so whatever.

Miami's run in 17 was all luck-based. Ridiculous turnover margin in our favor. But the defense was legitimately good as well and Miami had some other markers that year that they were a pretty good team.

MIchigan State, I agree...a bit of a mirage, just in a different way. Their defense is not good. Per Carry/Pass numbers against are close to average, total defense is horrendous. 3rd down offense is bad, Red Zone offense is average...but they have a RB playing the best football in the nation at the position and a legit Heisman candidate and a QB/WR group thats just good enough. Very weird team that shouldn't be where they are at, at this point of the season, but here they are.
 
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