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Defensive Stop Rate

Warrior808 said:
Interesting article in The Athletic about defensive stop rates (percentage of drives that end in downs, turnovers or punts). No metric is perfect but I like this one for grading an overall defensive performance. Prioritizes the end result that really matters (points given up) but doesn't get skewed by tempo offenses vs grind it out offenses, plays per game etc. It also doesnt care how you get there, bend but dont break... Attacking defense.. none of that affects the metric, can you stop the other team before they score is all that matters. Field position will have an affect but with over 100 drives at this point in the year it should smooth out fairly well.

Stop rate also passes the smell test when you look at the rankings. Georgia is #1. Miami.... 89th. Ironically right behind the fighting Banda's of Utah St

We played a number of high powered offenses so I am willing to cut some slack. That said, 89th is nowhere near acceptable regardless of schedule
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Fighting Bandas!!!!
Bruh I’m dead
 
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The Canes need a new DC, and IMHO, everything else on defense will dramatically improve. Not sure if CMD is ready to let go of the DC position, and let his coaches run the defense. But this experiment this season isn’t working the way it should based on the talent on the roster. Some of the Canes defensive shortcomings are based on personnel decisions, but the majority of his problems stem from the fact that the LBs that he decides to play aren’t D1 level. Every opponent sees it, and they exploit it. Every opponents‘ game plan is aimed at exploiting Flagg’s inability to diagnose plays, run sideline to sideline and drop back in coverage. I wish my grandma was on scholarship because she would make more of an impact. If a LB of Shaq and Pinkney’s calibre played on this defense, the ratings would DRAMATICALLY improve.

The DC needs to scheme around the Canes numerous deficiencies at LB, or make a change in LBs.
 
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BS85 said:
I think our defense sucks according to any metric probably
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We’ve played:
1. Bama (13th Total Offense)
2. App St (17th Total Offense)
3. CCUSt (96th Total Offense - FCS)
4. MSU (30th Total Offense)
5. UVA (1st Total Offense)
6. UNC (9th Total Offense)
7. NCSt (58th Total Offense)
8. Pitt (3rd Total Offense)
9. GT (62nd Total Offense)

We’ve played some good offensive teams thus far. Our 24th ranked O (which literally surged from Week 5 til now) has kept us in these boat races. The flaw of Manny’s defense is ripe for these prolific offenses.

Fortunately, FSU & VT both rank 86th & 110th respectively in total offense, so we should easily handle both.

The squad who may give us problems is Duke who is quietly the 31st ranked offense in the nation. Manny’s style is played. U can’t be reckless all the time. The announcers kept saying in the GT game, the middle of the field is open, not sure why Sims isn’t looking there. That’s all game, unfortunately.
 
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I like the metric. I don’t think OP was trying to use it to defend the defense. It’s pretty bad by any metric. But I do prefer it to yards per game or even points per game. (Offensive turnovers and poor special teams play can influence scoring defense a lot)
 
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We have played the #1 offense (Virginia 545 yds/game), the #2 offense (Pitt 543 yds/game), the #9 offense (UNC 488 yds/game). Appst and MSU are also in the top 30 at 463 and 446/game.

A metric that should not be ignored, did the D hold their opponent below their season avr and the answer is for the most part, yes.

UVA had 96 fewer yards
Pitt had 44 more yards
UNC had 106 fewer yds
Appst had 137 fewer yds
MSU had 8 more yds
GT had 78 fewer yds
NCSt had 7 more yds
Bama had 28 more yds
 
IndayArtHauz said:
Well we all know Manny’s D needs to create chaos behind the LOS (havoc rate), then generate turnovers and negative plays. This year’s team does neither.
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Yep....and save me for the "we get held every down" because we've ALWAYS gotten held every down. Our kids have always had to deal with the 12th man on the field so this years team is no different. DEF scheme needs an overhaul
 
Novacane32000 said:
We have played the #1 offense (Virginia 545 yds/game), the #2 offense (Pitt 543 yds/game), the #9 offense (UNC 488 yds/game). Appst and MSU are also in the top 30 at 463 and 446/game.

A metric that should not be ignored, did the D hold their opponent below their season avr and the answer is for the most part, yes.

UVA had 96 fewer yards
Pitt had 44 more yards
UNC had 106 fewer yds
Appst had 137 fewer yds
MSU had 8 more yds
GT had 78 fewer yds
NCSt had 7 more yds
Bama had 28 more yds
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I see where you're going with this, but that's even more to the point of getting someone in who can lower these numbers. I do understand that the faster we score and better our OFF is the more snaps our DEF will play which usually translates to more pts and yards given up (aside from the UGAs of the world).

Overall I think we have to play better on DEF because aside from the GT game where the OFF turned it over repeatedly, our OFF hasn't had any margin for error and we needed every single point we scored otherwise we'd lost the AppSt game, Pitt game and NCST game.
 
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Our defense sucks because we have poor ends, mediocre tackles, no linebackers, stiff and slow corners, and a Russian roulette scheme. The only good position group we have is safety.
 
DTP said:
I like the metric. I don’t think OP was trying to use it to defend the defense. It’s pretty bad by any metric. But I do prefer it to yards per game or even points per game. (Offensive turnovers and poor special teams play can influence scoring defense a lot)
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Certainly wasn't defending our defense. I said I would give some concession to the overall ranking due to playing good offenses (which is only fair) but clearly stated 89th is not acceptable under any circumstances.

It was more the opposite of defending our defense. This metric takes a lot of fluff out and gets right to the point leaving nowhere to hide or make excuses. We ranked 89th, thats just plain bad. We are not stopping people from scoring.

The reason I dont like the per game stats is that its greatly affected by the teams offense. The defense for tempo teams will have more drives or opportunities to defend vs a grind it out running team. Yards are also tricky. Some coaches prefer to keep everything in front of them and let the other team make a mistake or beat them in the redzone. Some like to be more aggressive. In the end its just style points. I care about are you stopping someone from scoring on each drive or not, shouldn't matter how you achieve that goal.
 
Rellyrell said:
We’ve played:
1. Bama (13th Total Offense)
2. App St (17th Total Offense)
3. CCUSt (96th Total Offense - FCS)
4. MSU (30th Total Offense)
5. UVA (1st Total Offense)
6. UNC (9th Total Offense)
7. NCSt (58th Total Offense)
8. Pitt (3rd Total Offense)
9. GT (62nd Total Offense)

We’ve played some good offensive teams thus far. Our 24th ranked O (which literally surged from Week 5 til now) has kept us in these boat races. The flaw of Manny’s defense is ripe for these prolific offenses.

Fortunately, FSU & VT both rank 86th & 110th respectively in total offense, so we should easily handle both.

The squad who may give us problems is Duke who is quietly the 31st ranked offense in the nation. Manny’s style is played. U can’t be reckless all the time. The announcers kept saying in the GT game, the middle of the field is open, not sure why Sims isn’t looking there. That’s all game, unfortunately.
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I’m not an X’s and O’s guy, but I always wondered what manny was doing differently schematically, that’s allowing these receivers to streak wide open on these short crossing routes…. Pretty much you’re saying we’re not nearly disruptive enough to hide our inadequacies at the second and third levels…

I noticed how wide open the middle of the field was late last season, and nothing about that has changed… Weird that teams are not taking advantage… though I have noticed a lot of drops against our defense this year….
 
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Novacane32000 said:
We have played the #1 offense (Virginia 545 yds/game), the #2 offense (Pitt 543 yds/game), the #9 offense (UNC 488 yds/game). Appst and MSU are also in the top 30 at 463 and 446/game.

A metric that should not be ignored, did the D hold their opponent below their season avr and the answer is for the most part, yes.

UVA had 96 fewer yards
Pitt had 44 more yards
UNC had 106 fewer yds
Appst had 137 fewer yds
MSU had 8 more yds
GT had 78 fewer yds
NCSt had 7 more yds
Bama had 28 more yds
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For the most part? That's half yes, half no. Not, "for the most part".
 
Bearly said:
I’m not an X’s and O’s guy, but I always wondered what manny was doing differently schematically, that’s allowing these receivers to streak wide open on these short crossing routes…. Pretty much you’re saying we’re not nearly disruptive enough to hide our inadequacies at the second and third levels…

I noticed how wide open the middle of the field was late last season, and nothing about that has changed… Weird that teams are not taking advantage… though I have noticed a lot of drops against our defense this year….
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In response to the middle of the field issues, it’s one of the fundamental flaws of the defense. Whether porsters realize it or not, Miami plays a lot of man coverage and slants, drags and mesh routes over the middle are usually effective against man to man coverage. Also, if the offense keeps their running back in to block against man coverage, whatever linebacker assigned to him will rush the passer once he sees the back not release out of the backfield. So now, not only is a linebacker coming super late on a blitz but he’s also abandoning the middle of the field to bring additional late pressure. We could have our corners play with different leverage, forcing receivers outside instead of allowing them to release inside and we could also ask our linebackers to actually do something in zone coverage besides stand in a space but it looks like that’s never going to happen in a Manny defense
 
Bearly said:
I’m not an X’s and O’s guy, but I always wondered what manny was doing differently schematically, that’s allowing these receivers to streak wide open on these short crossing routes…. Pretty much you’re saying we’re not nearly disruptive enough to hide our inadequacies at the second and third levels…

I noticed how wide open the middle of the field was late last season, and nothing about that has changed… Weird that teams are not taking advantage… though I have noticed a lot of drops against our defense this year….
Click to expand...
Manny’s defense has consistently been about causing havoc from two levels, and it puts a ton of pressure on the Safeties. We don’t have 2nd level IQ &/or speed to make up for lack of havoc.

Like, I think Flagg is a smart player, and we see him making plays from time to time b/c of his IQ; however, we also see far too often he’s left butt naked b/c of the lack of athleticism. Steed is a guy who’s become a good tackler as of late; he’s, imo, our best LB, but he, too, is limited in open space. If it’s downhill, he’s OK, but sideline to sideline can hurt him.

So if the guys can’t get home, that leaves us extremely vulnerable up the middle. The middle is virtually wide open every game. Any OC worth a **** would stop trying to beat us w/ deep shots, and hit us w/ slants, or force our LBs to cover a RB coming out the back field. I’ve re-watched practically all of our games, and the QBs we’ve faced have not peppered us across the middle, except for UNC. Couple that w/ our DBs playing so far off WRs, and u have a recipe for the 85th ranked defense.
 
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