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DAILY DEBATE: How will this affect LeBron's legacy?

Rellyrell said:
I think u’re misconstruing what I said.

I never downplayed his longevity. I’ve steadily said longevity is “a” part of the GOAT argument, but it’s not “thee” part. The longer u play, the longer u’re scrutinized, u begin to accumulate negative stats, as well.

Let me give u a prime example; part of LBJ fans argument against MJ are his Wizard yrs. As a 39-40 yr old, MJ superseded all expectations, but those yrs taint his aura, & it slightly dims his Bulls yrs from 1984-1998.

I’m also not caught up in media plants, I’m explaining to u of why LBJ’s resume is now being hyper scrutinized. Furthermore, did u just say MJ played for a great organization??? Ninja is u crazy! Lol. The Bulls were bums b4 MJ & have been bums after MJ. He played for arguably the worst owner in NBA & the worst GM WHO FIRED THE COACH WHO JUST WON A CHIP B/C HE THOUGHT HE DESERVED MORE CREDIT!

Did Bron not leave Cleveland & joined a world championship organization, with OUTSTANDING LEADERSHIP in Miami? Like, bruh what r u talking about? He chose to go there & chose to leave. He tried to get Spolstra fired, like let’s be real here. Lol

Lastly, LBJ has a MEDIA COMPANY champ. Lol. I’m not sure y u think these r “narratives” when it’s a known fact several media guys are also Klutch clients. Lol.

Bro, I’ve seen both MJ & LBJ play live. LBJ is great, one of one, but MJ was on a whole other level.
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Brother you literally said the more he plays the more bad will come lol..” actually the longer he plays, there will be other records he’ll hold on the negative side, as well….Why the **** would anyone focus on the “negative side” of someone playing great for over 20 years. That statement is imo rooted in trying to diminish his longevity, because it’s just insane to even view it that way. And you brought up him possibly getting the most shots missed record lol just another way to diminish his longevity..Kobe had the record for missed shots if im not mistaken, i don’t think any serious basketball fan would say anything negative about that because the **** is just a terrible way to view it..Just a very skewed way to view basketball man lol but like i said its rooted in people pushing narratives

And again bro, this is the difference of this lil debate we having…You keep bringing up the arguments of lebron fans or lebron media plants…I dont take anything someone described like that says. I view the people you are talking about as clowns, i dont value any narrative they push because its rooted in them being obsessed..What it seems like is you have read and followed a bunch of the bs narratives they push that are heavily flawed and created counters to that but when doing that u become one of them but just on the opposite side imo. Because the narratives that you have stated are what kobe stans and mj stans push against lebron, i view all parties the same no matter who i think is the better player or not

And yes mj played for a great organization, they literally built a great team around him that dominated an entire decade..That does not happen without 1. An all time great player, 2. A great organization that builds a great surrounding around that player that includes coaching, draft,trades,free agent signings, structure and development. Compare what the bulls had to lebrons early cavs its complete opposite. How it ended shouldn’t be the end all be all of that story, you know how hard it is to build a dynasty? How hard it is to 3peat two different times? This doesn’t happen without having a great organization bro thats for any sport

And yes he did leave and go to a great organization, that is my entire point about him taking control of his career. The difference is the bulls got there **** together and became what i described and the cavs did not thats the main difference from lebron and other greats..You say the bulls were bad, should we look at the cavaliers history? They were literally the worst team before and after lebron lol proving how incompetent they were and why he needed to leave

And cool he has a media company…That push narratives lmao you are repeating the narratives the push and bringing up counter narratives and then asking me why do i believe they are narratives??? I never denied he has lebron guys in media..i said i dont value much of what they say..i say that because majority of your points here are you attacking the **** they said..Hence why i said you are too caught up in narratives

And me and you agree there that was never a debate here…MJ IS THE GOAT….I just pointed out that the breakdown you did of his career should be done across the board with other greats but its not because no other player has been put under the same level of microscope as lebron has and to me that is rooted in people actually thinking he is the only true threat to mjs throne. If it was done to other players on the same level then people would have to reevaluate there basketball knowledge
 
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Demonized for attempting to be a good businessman. While employing his friends (one major reason for the immense hatred). Not to mention that the city of Miami benefitted immensely from his attempt at being a great businessman while playing basketball.

Never in the history of sports has an international superstar on his level not had one off or on field/court issue. Married to the same woman since his early 20’s and not one scandal or indiscretion.

I don’t know if there has ever been a player who loved this game and gave more each and every time they’ve stepped on the court as Lebron James has.
 
Being a consistently good player for a long time tends to make a person seem better than a consistently good player for a much smaller period. If Lebron had retired 5 years ago, this entire discussion wouldn't be as contentious.

In any case, nobody will ever have higher opinion of LeBron than LeBron does. That's a big part of what turns people off.
 
SPFRcane said:
My bad you may be right....maybe I did not say it correctly, so what I should of said MJ changed the way others seen what the NBA could be!! NBA was a after thought....maybe Magic and Bird may have started it but MJ
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I remember when we only watched the NBA finals live on TV - I'm old! Adding the ABA stars like Dr. J helped generate interest but Magic/Bird really set it off. And, you're right, MJ took it to a new level!
 
I don't know why people think they're entitled to a picture or an autograph. What a pain in the *** it must be to constantly have to stop and do things for people. **** that, I have no problem with an athlete saying NO every once in a while. In the words of the departed Brick Top: "Listen here, you ******* fringe. If I throw a dog a bone, I don't want to know if it tastes good or not. You stop me again whilst I'm walking, and I'll cut your ******* jacobs off."
And MJ is the GOAT.
 
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E1k said:
Brother you literally said the more he plays the more bad will come lol..” actually the longer he plays, there will be other records he’ll hold on the negative side, as well….Why the **** would anyone focus on the “negative side” of someone playing great for over 20 years. That statement is imo rooted in trying to diminish his longevity, because it’s just insane to even view it that way. And you brought up him possibly getting the most shots missed record lol just another way to diminish his longevity..Kobe had the record for missed shots if im not mistaken, i don’t think any serious basketball fan would say anything negative about that because the **** is just a terrible way to view it..Just a very skewed way to view basketball man lol but like i said its rooted in people pushing narratives

And again bro, this is the difference of this lil debate we having…You keep bringing up the arguments of lebron fans or lebron media plants…I dont take anything someone described like that says. I view the people you are talking about as clowns, i dont value any narrative they push because its rooted in them being obsessed..What it seems like is you have read and followed a bunch of the bs narratives they push that are heavily flawed and created counters to that but when doing that u become one of them but just on the opposite side imo. Because the narratives that you have stated are what kobe stans and mj stans push against lebron, i view all parties the same no matter who i think is the better player or not

And yes mj played for a great organization, they literally built a great team around him that dominated an entire decade..That does not happen without 1. An all time great player, 2. A great organization that builds a great surrounding around that player that includes coaching, draft,trades,free agent signings, structure and development. Compare what the bulls had to lebrons early cavs its complete opposite. How it ended shouldn’t be the end all be all of that story, you know how hard it is to build a dynasty? How hard it is to 3peat two different times? This doesn’t happen without having a great organization bro thats for any sport

And yes he did leave and go to a great organization, that is my entire point about him taking control of his career. The difference is the bulls got there **** together and became what i described and the cavs did not thats the main difference from lebron and other greats..You say the bulls were bad, should we look at the cavaliers history? They were literally the worst team before and after lebron lol proving how incompetent they were and why he needed to leave

And cool he has a media company…That push narratives lmao you are repeating the narratives the push and bringing up counter narratives and then asking me why do i believe they are narratives??? I never denied he has lebron guys in media..i said i dont value much of what they say..i say that because majority of your points here are you attacking the **** they said..Hence why i said you are too caught up in narratives

And me and you agree there that was never a debate here…MJ IS THE GOAT….I just pointed out that the breakdown you did of his career should be done across the board with other greats but its not because no other player has been put under the same level of microscope as lebron has and to me that is rooted in people actually thinking he is the only true threat to mjs throne. If it was done to other players on the same level then people would have to reevaluate there basketball knowledge
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Dude, what in thee heck r u talking about? Lol. Are u not comprehending the longer u play sometimes there’s a negative connotation that comes along w/ it that dims ur aura? It literally happens to all great players, unless they r winning chips, still.

He’s stat compiling, we know that, We ALL know that. U’re literally taking a statement & creating a thesis; and, to be frank, LBJ, AS I SAID, put a microscope on his career by calling himself The GOAT after 2016. LBJ’s media buddies put his career under a microscope by shamelessly attacking MJ to ELEVATE LBJ. So blame them mutha fckas, not me, holmes.

-When a ninja says “I NEVER make bad basketball plays” then homie u’re going to come under a microscope.

-When a ninja says “I don’t understand how guys don’t understand simple plays, plays I understood at the age of 10”, u’re going to come under a microscope.

-When a guy says “my son is could play on the team now” to shade his teammates, he’s going to come under a microscope.

-When a dude holds AN HOUR LONG SPECIAL to announce a FA move in front of his home city to tell the world “he’s training his talents to…” he’s going to come under a microscope.

-When a dude talks about how many championships said move will bring them, he’s going to come under a microscope.

Like I don’t get how u don’t understand the scrutiny or thorough examination of his career is b/c of him & b/c of this brain dead media that r forced down our throats. Basketball has become thee most toxic out of all the 4 major sports b/c only since 2016 has this sport gone out of this way to **** on the past to elevate another player.

& Pls spare me the “LBJ took control of his career” narrative b/c that’s bull ****. D Wade out of his own mouth said they saw Kobe win another chip & he immediately got Bron phone on the phone & was like we gotta stop this, what u trying to do? It was a ***** move, & will forever be a ***** move & he’s been hop scotching ever since to try to catch Kobe & MJ, & it’s failed.

Lastly, u do realize that Cleveland continuously gave up draft picks to try to give LBJ help, correct? They brought in Mo Williams, Antwan Jamison (both became or were all stars), & even though Shaq was a shell of himself, he was still effective as a 5th scorer. The organization tried as the No. 1 seeds they lost to the Jameer-less Magics team in the ECF (2009), & the ripened aged Celtics in the Semis (2010).

The fact is, not an opinion but a fact, LBJ wanted & has wanted microwaved titles, which is another reason why his argument for GOAT has taken a hit by real b-ball fans. Two things can be true at the same time:

1. LBJ’s longevity should DEFINITELY put him in the debate

2. That longevity also exposes some flaws that can, will, & should be taken into consideration when having a complete discussion.

If u don’t get that or agree w/ that, then let’s just agree to disagree b/c my thumbs hurt & we’re both getting in the lanes of @TheOriginalCane. Lol
 
cane_boi said:
I’ve seen vids of and heard stories of MJ doing this to kids too
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mj.webp
 
HarrietTubmanCane said:
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Demonized for attempting to be a good businessman. While employing his friends (one major reason for the immense hatred). Not to mention that the city of Miami benefitted immensely from his attempt at being a great businessman while playing basketball.

Never in the history of sports has an international superstar on his level not had one off or on field/court issue. Married to the same woman since his early 20’s and not one scandal or indiscretion.

I don’t know if there has ever been a player who loved this game and gave more each and every time they’ve stepped on the court as Lebron James has.
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Yeah but he’s from Cleveland…























💣












🙄😂
 
Rellyrell said:
Dude, what in thee heck r u talking about? Lol. Are u not comprehending the longer u play sometimes there’s a negative connotation that comes along w/ it that dims ur aura? It literally happens to all great players, unless they r winning chips, still.

He’s stat compiling, we know that, We ALL know that. U’re literally taking a statement & creating a thesis; and, to be frank, LBJ, AS I SAID, put a microscope on his career by calling himself The GOAT after 2016. LBJ’s media buddies put his career under a microscope by shamelessly attacking MJ to ELEVATE LBJ. So blame them mutha fckas, not me, holmes.

-When a ninja says “I NEVER make bad basketball plays” then homie u’re going to come under a microscope.

-When a ninja says “I don’t understand how guys don’t understand simple plays, plays I understood at the age of 10”, u’re going to come under a microscope.

-When a guy says “my son is could play on the team now” to shade his teammates, he’s going to come under a microscope.

-When a dude holds AN HOUR LONG SPECIAL to announce a FA move in front of his home city to tell the world “he’s training his talents to…” he’s going to come under a microscope.

-When a dude talks about how many championships said move will bring them, he’s going to come under a microscope.

Like I don’t get how u don’t understand the scrutiny or thorough examination of his career is b/c of him & b/c of this brain dead media that r forced down our throats. Basketball has become thee most toxic out of all the 4 major sports b/c only since 2016 has this sport gone out of this way to **** on the past to elevate another player.

& Pls spare me the “LBJ took control of his career” narrative b/c that’s bull ****. D Wade out of his own mouth said they saw Kobe win another chip & he immediately got Bron phone on the phone & was like we gotta stop this, what u trying to do? It was a ***** move, & will forever be a ***** move & he’s been hop scotching ever since to try to catch Kobe & MJ, & it’s failed.

Lastly, u do realize that Cleveland continuously gave up draft picks to try to give LBJ help, correct? They brought in Mo Williams, Antwan Jamison (both became or were all stars), & even though Shaq was a shell of himself, he was still effective as a 5th scorer. The organization tried as the No. 1 seeds they lost to the Jameer-less Magics team in the ECF (2009), & the ripened aged Celtics in the Semis (2010).

The fact is, not an opinion but a fact, LBJ wanted & has wanted microwaved titles, which is another reason why his argument for GOAT has taken a hit by real b-ball fans. Two things can be true at the same time:

1. LBJ’s longevity should DEFINITELY put him in the debate

2. That longevity also exposes some flaws that can, will, & should be taken into consideration when having a complete discussion.

If u don’t get that or agree w/ that, then let’s just agree to disagree b/c my thumbs hurt & we’re both getting in the lanes of @TheOriginalCane. Lol
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I view longevity differently than that, I don’t look at negatives of someone who is playing at a high level this late into there career. I don’t see how him still being great can dim his aura, i think it has added on to it but he is the rare case. I just don’t view sports like this tho, i can see greatness with or without a championship attached because i know thats mainly a team accomplishment

Putting his career under a microscope because he said he believes he is the goat is funny man lol cmon do u think kobe felt differently? Do u think mj felt differently? I truly cant believe this is your reasoning lmao. I think based on the narratives and angle u use the microscope came in 2016 because thats when the goat throne of mj was really threatened like never before. And furthermore why i believe that is the reasoning because u keep bringing up what his media stans say about jordan lmao dead giveaway

Please find me the clip of him saying i never make bad basketball plays, please!

Another statement you are taking out of context lmao bro cmon you are better than this.He is on a podcast discussing the state of basketball and how players gain there iq

N!!GGUH ITS HIS SON LOL WTF OF COURSE

I agree the decision **** was wack and the hype talk was wild. But..what im getting from all of this is you and i care about two different things..Once the goat debate or top5 conversations come up, EVERYONE goes under a microscope because to me that is the only way i can get my objective opinion. Idgaf about all the extra **** i give af about what you produced,accomplished and your level of play on the court. Putting one guy under the scope but not the others for the reasons you named is literally u just not liking one guy and getting the microscope to find ways to diminish him

See i haven’t watched much of espn or any of the **** you bring up for at least a decade now. And its because of the same root of why we see this differently..i dont give a **** to hear narratives i love the sport I just wanna watch the games, sometimes i watch on mute..i mute the **** half time shows i dont value what they say. But i see you value that ****, for me once i hear **** that u describe being said im turned off by it and i dont watch anymore so its not forced on me.

How is him becoming a free agent and picking where and who he wanted to play with not taking control of his career? Thats literally what free agency is. And i love dwade that is my personal favorite player ever..i dont believe that kobe ****, boston to me was more of a reason they joined each other and the main reason being they are just best friends.

And with the hop scotching ****..i view that as him not putting his legacy in the hands of a team because when its all said n done literally nobody will remember the gm wasting a players prime years so him putting pressure on every team he went to to make sure there number one priority is to contend is literally the smartest **** any player can do and he moved like that because he went thru the gm wasting his prime years in Cleveland the first time so why would he allow it again. Its a players led league, these teams will just use a player to drive up revenue and not push to contend so any star would be smart to leverage themselves in that way if u want to win

And miss me with that kobe lebron **** please, u dont wanna go down this microscope route man lol i love kobe but that debate has BEEN over with.

Brother you just told me a team that should be trying to win championships brought in mo williams, jamison when he was on the back end of his career and mf old *** shaq? You just proved my point, compare those supporting casts to his competition in the east with boston and orlando, compare it to kobe and mjs teams..Its not even a conversation.

This right here proves my point i have literally never seen someone get criticized even when they win championships lmao. Like wtf is a microwave championship dawg??? Lmao this is not facts its hate and no true bball fan should agree

The fact that people are looking for flaws to be exposed after 20 years of high level play is insane in itself to me but we just look at it differently. Agree to disagree, good dialogue my guy
 
Couple questions I'll be interested in watching play out.

1) At what point will Bronny be starting - Will JJ Redick go back to his podcast once he is fired for the Lakers struggles at the All Star Break.
2) Will his Promise School improve at all or has it already?
3) Will Bron announce prior to the season so he can do a farewell tour or will he finish a season and just say "thats it, its been a heck of a run but I am ready to relax."
 
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E1k said:
I view longevity differently than that, I don’t look at negatives of someone who is playing at a high level this late into there career. I don’t see how him still being great can dim his aura, i think it has added on to it but he is the rare case. I just don’t view sports like this tho, i can see greatness with or without a championship attached because i know thats mainly a team accomplishment

Putting his career under a microscope because he said he believes he is the goat is funny man lol cmon do u think kobe felt differently? Do u think mj felt differently? I truly cant believe this is your reasoning lmao. I think based on the narratives and angle u use the microscope came in 2016 because thats when the goat throne of mj was really threatened like never before. And furthermore why i believe that is the reasoning because u keep bringing up what his media stans say about jordan lmao dead giveaway

Please find me the clip of him saying i never make bad basketball plays, please!

Another statement you are taking out of context lmao bro cmon you are better than this.He is on a podcast discussing the state of basketball and how players gain there iq

N!!GGUH ITS HIS SON LOL WTF OF COURSE

I agree the decision **** was wack and the hype talk was wild. But..what im getting from all of this is you and i care about two different things..Once the goat debate or top5 conversations come up, EVERYONE goes under a microscope because to me that is the only way i can get my objective opinion. Idgaf about all the extra **** i give af about what you produced,accomplished and your level of play on the court. Putting one guy under the scope but not the others for the reasons you named is literally u just not liking one guy and getting the microscope to find ways to diminish him

See i haven’t watched much of espn or any of the **** you bring up for at least a decade now. And its because of the same root of why we see this differently..i dont give a **** to hear narratives i love the sport I just wanna watch the games, sometimes i watch on mute..i mute the **** half time shows i dont value what they say. But i see you value that ****, for me once i hear **** that u describe being said im turned off by it and i dont watch anymore so its not forced on me.

How is him becoming a free agent and picking where and who he wanted to play with not taking control of his career? Thats literally what free agency is. And i love dwade that is my personal favorite player ever..i dont believe that kobe ****, boston to me was more of a reason they joined each other and the main reason being they are just best friends.

And with the hop scotching ****..i view that as him not putting his legacy in the hands of a team because when its all said n done literally nobody will remember the gm wasting a players prime years so him putting pressure on every team he went to to make sure there number one priority is to contend is literally the smartest **** any player can do and he moved like that because he went thru the gm wasting his prime years in Cleveland the first time so why would he allow it again. Its a players led league, these teams will just use a player to drive up revenue and not push to contend so any star would be smart to leverage themselves in that way if u want to win

And miss me with that kobe lebron **** please, u dont wanna go down this microscope route man lol i love kobe but that debate has BEEN over with.

Brother you just told me a team that should be trying to win championships brought in mo williams, jamison when he was on the back end of his career and mf old *** shaq? You just proved my point, compare those supporting casts to his competition in the east with boston and orlando, compare it to kobe and mjs teams..Its not even a conversation.

This right here proves my point i have literally never seen someone get criticized even when they win championships lmao. Like wtf is a microwave championship dawg??? Lmao this is not facts its hate and no true bball fan should agree

The fact that people are looking for flaws to be exposed after 20 years of high level play is insane in itself to me but we just look at it differently. Agree to disagree, good dialogue my guy
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For the sake of stopping these long *** replies, imma just say “u got it, Chief.”
 
Felonious Monk said:
I blame OP.

Thanks, @Brains
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Honestly? I only entertain certain threads during the off season to make the time go by. This is one of the few. Don’t mind it, but i do take umbrage in the media & fans using cumulative, longevity stats to say LBJ’s the GOAT.

There’s way too many flaws & holes on the totality of his resume, & if I went in to ether mode in breaking down complete analytics, records, stats, win%, impact on/off the floor, caliber of teammates vs. opponents, etc. which I’ve done on other platforms, it would be quite obvious why MJ is The GOAT. I don’t hate LBJ; once upon a time he was my favorite player in the NBA (until Curry got drafted), but I do hate certain narratives that surround him, & I hate that his young fans have created this #Wedonewiththe90’s movement to **** on past greats.
 
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