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DAILY DEBATE: How will this affect LeBron's legacy?

Rellyrell said:
U’re conflating longevity with GOAT & the two r not synonymous. LBJ’s peak will never be better than MJ’s peak. When u deep dive into MJ’s whole career, it’s actually quite other world. LBJ will have the longevity #’s, but he will not come close to the individual or team accolades of MJ. In reality, MJ accomplished more in a 13 yr window* than LBJ has accomplished his entire career. (He played 15 NBA seasons but missed most of ‘85-86 & ‘94-95)

LBJ is an absolute physical specimen whose understanding of modern medicine have allowed him to play at an unbelievable peak, but if we’re going to be honest, the modern NBA player today is playing longer due to advanced understanding of medicine & technology. Steph Curry at 36 is still the most deadliest player on the court. KD at 35 is still a sniper. ****, MJ w/o modern medicine is still the oldest player to put up back to back 40+ games in his Wizards days avg. 20+ ppg.

I can easily break down why MJ is superior than LBJ & it has nothing to do w/ 6-0 vs. 4-6 as opposed to how it became 6-0 vs. 4-6, & just the shear amount of things MJ have done than LBJ could never imagine doing. The longevity stats r apart of the GOAT debate, but it’s not thee part of the GOAT debate or Kareem, & Malone would’ve been put over MJ
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Isn’t longevity part of what makes a person the GOAT? In the end, I am still a MJ guy, and will always be. The 1st NCAA finals I saw was 1983 UNC v Georgetown so that is forever etched into my memory.
BUt I can’t help but marvel at what LBJ is doing at 39. I think he can easily play 5 more years, especially if he becomes a full time point guard which is what I would sell to him if I was JJ Redick.

Man we could continue this debate for another year.
 
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AtlAtty said:
Isn’t longevity part of what makes a person the GOAT? In the end, I am still a MJ guy, and will always be. The 1st NCAA finals I saw was 1983 UNC v Georgetown so that is forever etched into my memory.
BUt I can’t help but marvel at what LBJ is doing at 39. I think he can easily play 5 more years, especially if he becomes a full time point guard which is what I would sell to him if I was JJ Redick.

Man we could continue this debate for another year.
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Correct, longevity is “a” part of the GOAT debate, but not thee part. The longevity of LBJ is a marvel, but he has too many holes on his resume, & actually the longer he plays, there will be other records he’ll hold on the negative side, as well.

So since pundits like Nick Wright, Collin Cowherd, Shannon Sharpe, etc wanna now look at LBJ’s international career as a means to put him over MJ, let’s look at that:

MJ has competed in 5 international competitions: Pan Am Games (1983), Olympics (1984), FIBA Americas (1992), Olympics (1992), & McDonald’s FIBA World vs. NBA (1997)

He’s 5-0 in international competition, including being undefeated in all international games.

LBJ has now competed in 6 international competitions:
Olympics (2004), FIBA World (2006), FIBA Americas (2007), Olympics (2008), Olympics (2012), Olympics (2024).

He’s 4-2 in the international competition, with several losses in group stages in 2004 & 2006.

LBJ fans say: “well, Bill has more rings than MJ, & other Celtics, along w/ Horry, too; so rings shouldn’t determine who’s the GOAT.”

I agree w/ this, too; but the difference between why MJ’s 6 rings overshadows Boston’s legends or even Horry r two reasons:

1. No disrespect to Mr Russell or the Boston Dynasty, but this was during an era pre ABA merger, & there were only 8-14 teams playing.

2. MJ was ALWAYS the best player on his teams, & it wasn’t close.

MJ’s regular season performance was outstanding, but his post season performance was God-like. His impact was felt on both ends & the numbers increased as crunch time ensued. Furthermore, MJ got it from the mud; he didn’t team hop or try to create super teams by poaching other team’s best players or joining said players. That’s another knock on LBJ. The 2011 Finals, the cramping in 2014. I would argue LBJ is fortunate to be 4-6 in the Finals; he easily could be 2-8 or possibly 1-9.

Let’s look at 3 of his 4 W’s:

2012 (Ginoboli & Leonard miss FTs keeping Miami alive long enough for LBJ to miss a 3, Bosh hustles to get the board, kicks it out to Ray for one of thee most clutch 3 point shots in NBA history to send the game to OT. If u recall, the champagne & rope was being set up for SAS but Manu & Kawhi both blew FTs giving life to Miami)

2016 (Bogut gets injured, & an unprecedented Finals Suspension happens to an All Star in Draymond). The infamous 3-1 comeback, mired in controversy. Steph was allowed to get manhandled while calling ticky tack calls on him, leading to Steph getting out of character throwing his mouthpiece out). Draymond’s suspension, Bogut’s untimely injury, the refs switching up how they called the game + Kyrie’s clutch “I got this” 3 lead to this chip

2020 (Bubble Chip). The Heat caught fire, & Jimmy Clutch, Jimmy Buckets was born. However, Jimmy was playing 1 on 5 basketball as Dragic & Bam got injured. These two were amazing in the bubble, but neither were good to go in The Finals, either missing games or being a shell of their former selves, yet LAL still won 4-2.

So as much as I am in amazement of what LBJ is doing, I also know there’s a reason why MJ’s PER is over LBJ:
-He’s shrunk in big moments
-He’ll have the most turnovers in NBA history despite not having the highest usage rate in NBA history
He’ll have the most missed shots in NBA history even though he haven’t taken as many shots/game as Kobe
-He’ll finished 5th in most FT missed in NBA history despite not getting to the line as frequently as a Shaq, Wilt, Howard, or K. Malone.
 
AtlAtty said:
At 39 years old to still be one of the strongest, fastest players in the league is something we have never seen. Lebron is a physical anomaly in a sport full of them. He was clearly the leader of Team USA. And other than Steph in the last 2 games, Lebron was the best player, and deserving of the MVP. He can easily play to the age of 45 if he chooses to play point guard. The Lebron of today has a similar skill set to Magic Johnson in terms of his passing and size.

If I had to pick a player for 1 game, or even 1 season, I pick MJ every single time.
If I had to pick the greatest career of all-time, I pick Lebron. He will own the NBA record book. And longevity counts because it speaks to the athlete’s dedication to keep their body in great condition.
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I’ll say one of the biggest reason I fault LBJ is he when given reigns kind of ruined the NBA. Magic/Bird gave it to Jordan MJ gave it to Kobe. The league was so great then LBJ took it and the sport isn’t even recognizable anymore
 
AtlAtty said:
Actually, no one did more to change the game than Wilt. Literally rule change after rule change because Wilt was so dominant.
For example, before Wilt, there was no rule saying that a player could not cross the free throw line when shooting a free throw. Wilt used to run up to the line, jump and lay the ball in; like Dr J or MJ in the dunk contest.

I still agree that MJ is the best ever and I think you are correct that LBJ is in a top 5 with MJ, Wilt, Russell and then the 5th spot becomes interesting.
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My bad you may be right....maybe I did not say it correctly, so what I should of said MJ changed the way others seen what the NBA could be!! NBA was a after thought....maybe Magic and Bird may have started it but MJ
 
canes732 said:
Let’s hear some top 5s people have. I’ll start.
#1. MJ - obviously Jordan is 1
#2. LBJ - I don’t like putting him here but can’t say he isn’t. (Kobe guy)
#3. Magic- Bird rivalry
#4. Bird- Magic rivalry. Bird/Magic saved the nba and elevated it to where Jordan made it explode
#5. Shaq- most dominant player in history arguably. If he could just shoot a free throw haha
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Good list, id say

Mj
Bron
Kobe
Kareem
Magic

Sometimes i have kobe lower, sometimes i switch magic and kareem
 
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Rellyrell said:
Correct, longevity is “a” part of the GOAT debate, but not thee part. The longevity of LBJ is a marvel, but he has too many holes on his resume, & actually the longer he plays, there will be other records he’ll hold on the negative side, as well.

So since pundits like Nick Wright, Collin Cowherd, Shannon Sharpe, etc wanna now look at LBJ’s international career as a means to put him over MJ, let’s look at that:

MJ has competed in 5 international competitions: Pan Am Games (1983), Olympics (1984), FIBA Americas (1992), Olympics (1992), & McDonald’s FIBA World vs. NBA (1997)

He’s 5-0 in international competition, including being undefeated in all international games.

LBJ has now competed in 6 international competitions:
Olympics (2004), FIBA World (2006), FIBA Americas (2007), Olympics (2008), Olympics (2012), Olympics (2024).

He’s 4-2 in the international competition, with several losses in group stages in 2004 & 2006.

LBJ fans say: “well, Bill has more rings than MJ, & other Celtics, along w/ Horry, too; so rings shouldn’t determine who’s the GOAT.”

I agree w/ this, too; but the difference between why MJ’s 6 rings overshadows Boston’s legends or even Horry r two reasons:

1. No disrespect to Mr Russell or the Boston Dynasty, but this was during an era pre ABA merger, & there were only 8-14 teams playing.

2. MJ was ALWAYS the best player on his teams, & it wasn’t close.

MJ’s regular season performance was outstanding, but his post season performance was God-like. His impact was felt on both ends & the numbers increased as crunch time ensued. Furthermore, MJ got it from the mud; he didn’t team hop or try to create super teams by poaching other team’s best players or joining said players. That’s another knock on LBJ. The 2011 Finals, the cramping in 2014. I would argue LBJ is fortunate to be 4-6 in the Finals; he easily could be 2-8 or possibly 1-9.

Let’s look at 3 of his 4 W’s:

2012 (Ginoboli & Leonard miss FTs keeping Miami alive long enough for LBJ to miss a 3, Bosh hustles to get the board, kicks it out to Ray for one of thee most clutch 3 point shots in NBA history to send the game to OT. If u recall, the champagne & rope was being set up for SAS but Manu & Kawhi both blew FTs giving life to Miami)

2016 (Bogut gets injured, & an unprecedented Finals Suspension happens to an All Star in Draymond). The infamous 3-1 comeback, mired in controversy. Steph was allowed to get manhandled while calling ticky tack calls on him, leading to Steph getting out of character throwing his mouthpiece out). Draymond’s suspension, Bogut’s untimely injury, the refs switching up how they called the game + Kyrie’s clutch “I got this” 3 lead to this chip

2020 (Bubble Chip). The Heat caught fire, & Jimmy Clutch, Jimmy Buckets was born. However, Jimmy was playing 1 on 5 basketball as Dragic & Bam got injured. These two were amazing in the bubble, but neither were good to go in The Finals, either missing games or being a shell of their former selves, yet LAL still won 4-2.

So as much as I am in amazement of what LBJ is doing, I also know there’s a reason why MJ’s PER is over LBJ:
-He’s shrunk in big moments
-He’ll have the most turnovers in NBA history despite not having the highest usage rate in NBA history
He’ll have the most missed shots in NBA history even though he haven’t taken as many shots/game as Kobe
-He’ll finished 5th in most FT missed in NBA history despite not getting to the line as frequently as a Shaq, Wilt, Howard, or K. Malone.
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As always, you’re spittin’ facts. Couldn’t have explained it any better.
 
Rellyrell said:
Correct, longevity is “a” part of the GOAT debate, but not thee part. The longevity of LBJ is a marvel, but he has too many holes on his resume, & actually the longer he plays, there will be other records he’ll hold on the negative side, as well.

So since pundits like Nick Wright, Collin Cowherd, Shannon Sharpe, etc wanna now look at LBJ’s international career as a means to put him over MJ, let’s look at that:

MJ has competed in 5 international competitions: Pan Am Games (1983), Olympics (1984), FIBA Americas (1992), Olympics (1992), & McDonald’s FIBA World vs. NBA (1997)

He’s 5-0 in international competition, including being undefeated in all international games.

LBJ has now competed in 6 international competitions:
Olympics (2004), FIBA World (2006), FIBA Americas (2007), Olympics (2008), Olympics (2012), Olympics (2024).

He’s 4-2 in the international competition, with several losses in group stages in 2004 & 2006.

LBJ fans say: “well, Bill has more rings than MJ, & other Celtics, along w/ Horry, too; so rings shouldn’t determine who’s the GOAT.”

I agree w/ this, too; but the difference between why MJ’s 6 rings overshadows Boston’s legends or even Horry r two reasons:

1. No disrespect to Mr Russell or the Boston Dynasty, but this was during an era pre ABA merger, & there were only 8-14 teams playing.

2. MJ was ALWAYS the best player on his teams, & it wasn’t close.

MJ’s regular season performance was outstanding, but his post season performance was God-like. His impact was felt on both ends & the numbers increased as crunch time ensued. Furthermore, MJ got it from the mud; he didn’t team hop or try to create super teams by poaching other team’s best players or joining said players. That’s another knock on LBJ. The 2011 Finals, the cramping in 2014. I would argue LBJ is fortunate to be 4-6 in the Finals; he easily could be 2-8 or possibly 1-9.

Let’s look at 3 of his 4 W’s:

2012 (Ginoboli & Leonard miss FTs keeping Miami alive long enough for LBJ to miss a 3, Bosh hustles to get the board, kicks it out to Ray for one of thee most clutch 3 point shots in NBA history to send the game to OT. If u recall, the champagne & rope was being set up for SAS but Manu & Kawhi both blew FTs giving life to Miami)

2016 (Bogut gets injured, & an unprecedented Finals Suspension happens to an All Star in Draymond). The infamous 3-1 comeback, mired in controversy. Steph was allowed to get manhandled while calling ticky tack calls on him, leading to Steph getting out of character throwing his mouthpiece out). Draymond’s suspension, Bogut’s untimely injury, the refs switching up how they called the game + Kyrie’s clutch “I got this” 3 lead to this chip

2020 (Bubble Chip). The Heat caught fire, & Jimmy Clutch, Jimmy Buckets was born. However, Jimmy was playing 1 on 5 basketball as Dragic & Bam got injured. These two were amazing in the bubble, but neither were good to go in The Finals, either missing games or being a shell of their former selves, yet LAL still won 4-2.

So as much as I am in amazement of what LBJ is doing, I also know there’s a reason why MJ’s PER is over LBJ:
-He’s shrunk in big moments
-He’ll have the most turnovers in NBA history despite not having the highest usage rate in NBA history
He’ll have the most missed shots in NBA history even though he haven’t taken as many shots/game as Kobe
-He’ll finished 5th in most FT missed in NBA history despite not getting to the line as frequently as a Shaq, Wilt, Howard, or K. Malone.
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I wish every nba players career was put under a microscope like this..then we would all be able to have real objective conversations

For starters literally no other player has had longevity used as a negative against them lol especially when they are still great for this long.

No players has their championship wins put under a microscope like this, no other player this great do people remember majority of the negatives in his career instead of the insane heights.

And the main reason people put his career under a microscope like this is..because he is the first player to truly threaten mj spot as the goat. Thats literally the root of it, if there was a way to cap his status like kobe with oh “closest to mj” and him basically patterning his game after mj nobody would have this kind of scrutiny towards him
 
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E1k said:
I wish every nba players career was put under a microscope like this..then we would all be able to have real objective conversations

For starters literally no other player has had longevity used as a negative against them lol especially when they are still great for this long.

No players has their championship wins put under a microscope like this, no other player this great do people remember majority of the negatives in his career instead of the insane heights.

And the main reason people put his career under a microscope like this is..because he is the first player to truly threaten mj spot as the goat. Thats literally the root of it, if there was a way to cap his status like kobe with oh “closest to mj” and him basically patterning his game after mj nobody would have this kind of scrutiny towards him
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They have, actually. Karl Malone is the 1st name that comes to mind.

Listen bro, LBJ out of his own mouth after losing to Denver said it’s just basketball. The purpose of forming these super teams were to 1st stop Kobe (out of D Wade’s own mouth, & Kobe didn’t need a super team to go 2/3 in NBA Finals). Then out of LBJ’s own mouth he was chasing the ghost of 23 (MJ).

Once it became obvious that winning another chip or even catch MJ’s accolades weren’t going to happen, he started to carve his own lane: compiling stats. However, when u’re still considered a top 10 player in the league & u’re paired w/ another top 15 player in the league who’s also a Top 75 player ever, the stats don’t hit the same w/o the rings. Soooo, the new narrative is surrounded by longevity, cumulative stats. If that’s the case, the Kareem should’ve been The GOAT b/c he’s got the longevity stats + chips.

This is all new b/c Klutch media have put out this new narrative when we never considered longevity, ALONE, as the criteria of GOAT.
 
E1k said:
I wish every nba players career was put under a microscope like this..then we would all be able to have real objective conversations

For starters literally no other player has had longevity used as a negative against them lol especially when they are still great for this long.

No players has their championship wins put under a microscope like this, no other player this great do people remember majority of the negatives in his career instead of the insane heights.

And the main reason people put his career under a microscope like this is..because he is the first player to truly threaten mj spot as the goat. Thats literally the root of it, if there was a way to cap his status like kobe with oh “closest to mj” and him basically patterning his game after mj nobody would have this kind of scrutiny towards him
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atomic bomb explosion GIF
 
Rellyrell said:
They have, actually. Karl Malone is the 1st name that comes to mind.

Listen bro, LBJ out of his own mouth after losing to Denver said it’s just basketball. The purpose of forming these super teams were to 1st stop Kobe (out of D Wade’s own mouth, & Kobe didn’t need a super team to go 2/3 in NBA Finals). Then out of LBJ’s own mouth he was chasing the ghost of 23 (MJ).

Once it became obvious that winning another chip or even catch MJ’s accolades weren’t going to happen, he started to carve his own lane: compiling stats. However, when u’re still considered a top 10 player in the league & u’re paired w/ another top 15 player in the league who’s also a Top 75 player ever, the stats don’t hit the same w/o the rings. Soooo, the new narrative is surrounded by longevity, cumulative stats. If that’s the case, the Kareem should’ve been The GOAT b/c he’s got the longevity stats + chips.

This is all new b/c Klutch media have put out this new narrative when we never considered longevity, ALONE, as the criteria of GOAT.
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Karl malone was never close to this status of player so that comparison is meh and alot of his hate comes from stuff outside of basketball that i think everyone knows about

And yea the mf who is 40 and at the end of his career says its just basketball because it is. People try to hate on that as if it meant he doesn’t care, he gave everything in that series so who gives a **** what he says off the court, the work speaks for itself. These conversations turn into character evaluations way too much, your actions on the court tell me more

And dwade melo bron all talked about teaming up, they best friends wade saying that was funny because in real time it was never even a thing everybody said it was about boston big3 teaming up but he’s a great friend and always looks to boost kobe legacy because of the disrespect he gets.

And this is what i mean by no player’s accomplishments get put under a microscope like this lmao. Saying he gave up on chasing mj and just stat padded is insane hate, did we ever say that about kobe when it was clear the lakers were done competing, or mj when he came back from retirement? Or kareem when he kept playing? Hakeem when he was on his last leg? Vince carter who kept playing for years when be was done? People only do this for one guy its hilarious man.

Longevity isn’t a narrative bro its just reality, i think you are too caught up in the narrative side of the goat debate and just pushing aside incredible accomplishments, trying to diminish them to not give him more credit. Its clear by you bringing up nick wright, shannon lol like who gives af what they say? People letting the stan narratives turn them against the player lmao, skip did an incredible job at it and he influenced a whole generation to downplay everything lebron does
 
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E1k said:
Karl malone was never close to this status of player so that comparison is meh and alot of his hate comes from stuff outside of basketball that i think everyone knows about

And yea the mf who is 40 and at the end of his career says its just basketball because it is. People try to hate on that as if it meant he doesn’t care, he gave everything in that series so who gives a **** what he says off the court, the work speaks for itself. These conversations turn into character evaluations way too much, your actions on the court tell me more

And dwade melo bron all talked about teaming up, they best friends wade saying that was funny because in real time it was never even a thing everybody said it was about boston big3 teaming up but he’s a great friend and always looks to boost kobe legacy because of the disrespect he gets.

And this is what i mean by no player’s accomplishments get put under a microscope like this lmao. Saying he gave up on chasing mj and just stat padded is insane hate, did we ever say that about kobe when it was clear the lakers were done competing, or mj when he came back from retirement? Or kareem when he kept playing? Hakeem when he was on his last leg? Vince carter who kept playing for years when be was done? People only do this for one guy its hilarious man.

Longevity isn’t a narrative bro its just reality, i think you are too caught up in the narrative side of the goat debate and just pushing aside incredible accomplishments, trying to diminish them to not give him more credit. Its clear by you bringing up nick wright, shannon lol like who gives af what they say? People letting the stan narratives turn them against the player lmao, skip did an incredible job at it and he influenced a whole generation to downplay everything lebron does
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1. It’s “just basketball” when he loses, b/c lord knows blood was poppin champagne for that In Season Title bragging about how much it meant. Lol

2. LBJ’s longevity is impressive

3. His stats/accomplishments comes under scrutiny when he goes on record and says:

“I’m The GOAT”
“I always make the right basketball plays”

4. No one down plays anything LBJ does; what’s frustrating are the incessant need to try to tear down all of MJ’s, Magic’s, & all time great accomplishments, pushing false narratives such as:
They all played against bums
MJ is a fake DPOY
MJ only won b/c of the expansion era
MJ beat an old Magic
etc.

5. Now fans, fans that have access to everything are putting things in full context, as legends are assaulted by TikTok, & LeMedia

6. When u’re The GOAT, u don’t join other super stars teams. That’s Bible.

So while LBJ is & should given his flowers, when u & ur plants like Brian Windhorst, and the likes take jabs at past legends by putting out false narratives, pls believe u’re going to get thoroughly examined.

I have LBJ as #2, strictly b/c of his longevity.
 
Rellyrell said:
1. It’s “just basketball” when he loses, b/c lord knows blood was poppin champagne for that In Season Title bragging about how much it meant. Lol

2. LBJ’s longevity is impressive

3. His stats/accomplishments comes under scrutiny when he goes on record and says:

“I’m The GOAT”
“I always make the right basketball plays”

4. No one down plays anything LBJ does; what’s frustrating are the incessant need to try to tear down all of MJ’s, Magic’s, & all time great accomplishments, pushing false narratives such as:
They all played against bums
MJ is a fake DPOY
MJ only won b/c of the expansion era
MJ beat an old Magic
etc.

5. Now fans, fans that have access to everything are putting things in full context, as legends are assaulted by TikTok, & LeMedia

6. When u’re The GOAT, u don’t join other super stars teams. That’s Bible.

So while LBJ is & should given his flowers, when u & ur plants like Brian Windhorst, and the likes take jabs at past legends by putting out false narratives, pls believe u’re going to get thoroughly examined.

I have LBJ as #2, strictly b/c of his longevity.
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1. You should go listen to the full statement he made, but this is typical bron hate narratives lol hang on to a headline statement and make a whole argument to judge his basketball character lol he just got done saying in that same interview we have to be perfect and i dont wanna be around people who dont strive for that

3. So this is funny…is a player u say yourself is 2nd, mostly everyone considers hims 2nd…Why tf would he not feel he is the goat?Why would anyone that reached that level not believe that? And wtf does him saying he makes the right plays have to do with his stats and accomplishments? Has he not shown to make high iq plays? I don’t understand how that statement is correlated to accomplishments/stats..But again its you using an off the court statement in the argument, i think thats where we differ on this

4. Bro u literally just downplayed his longevity and said the longer he plays the more bad records he will have…Who tf cares lmao? Who sees someone play great for this long and says lets see the negatives you get while u continue to play??? And again you are caught up in what his stans use as arguments instead of reality, why would u ever take someone downplaying mj or magic serious?? Lmao bro cmon man you too caught up in bs narratives that both sides push

5. Brother again caught up in narratives. Literally mj kobe magic had people with connections in media that push there narratives. It’s just bigger now and either way stan opinions shouldn’t be taking seriously from either side because you have people on mj side kobe side spewing bs narratives against bron as well does that mean u should start downplaying what they did???

6. This one here is just hilarious and such a tired narrative and its not even just a lebron thing to me at this point. Mj magic kobe shaq duncan literally pick a great player all had the luxury of having great organizations that made great moves that kept them competing and improving. And every great player and champion had great players with them, so was lebron supposed to just stay in Cleveland when the front office were completely terrible at their job? No he took control of his career because he knows he needed greats to win only difference is the other greats organizations acquired them to join the great they had but Cleveland failed at that

7. Again you caught up in media plants..if they are plants why take anything the say seriously? You are smart enough to see thru it so why do you take that and correlate it to downplaying lebron? Thats like if u have a bunch of stans on here that say bull**** and i just start hating on you lmao….All n all to me if you’re gonna thoroughly examine his career for holes then do it across the board but thats never the case

And so u say the longer he plays, the more holes u can poke but u have him #2 on strictly longevity? Interesting ,Thats like what i mentioned in a post earlier, people downplay mjs greatness because they focus on the 6rings too much but if u strip away everyone’s rings he still has the strongest goat case to me..just like bron has the strongest case for #2 even if he retired 6-7 years ago.

You done made me type my longest post on here too man lmfao smh
 
E1k said:
1. You should go listen to the full statement he made, but this is typical bron hate narratives lol hang on to a headline statement and make a whole argument to judge his basketball character lol he just got done saying in that same interview we have to be perfect and i dont wanna be around people who dont strive for that

3. So this is funny…is a player u say yourself is 2nd, mostly everyone considers hims 2nd…Why tf would he not feel he is the goat?Why would anyone that reached that level not believe that? And wtf does him saying he makes the right plays have to do with his stats and accomplishments? Has he not shown to make high iq plays? I don’t understand how that statement is correlated to accomplishments/stats..But again its you using an off the court statement in the argument, i think thats where we differ on this

4. Bro u literally just downplayed his longevity and said the longer he plays the more bad records he will have…Who tf cares lmao? Who sees someone play great for this long and says lets see the negatives you get while u continue to play??? And again you are caught up in what his stans use as arguments instead of reality, why would u ever take someone downplaying mj or magic serious?? Lmao bro cmon man you too caught up in bs narratives that both sides push

5. Brother again caught up in narratives. Literally mj kobe magic had people with connections in media that push there narratives. It’s just bigger now and either way stan opinions shouldn’t be taking seriously from either side because you have people on mj side kobe side spewing bs narratives against bron as well does that mean u should start downplaying what they did???

6. This one here is just hilarious and such a tired narrative and its not even just a lebron thing to me at this point. Mj magic kobe shaq duncan literally pick a great player all had the luxury of having great organizations that made great moves that kept them competing and improving. And every great player and champion had great players with them, so was lebron supposed to just stay in Cleveland when the front office were completely terrible at their job? No he took control of his career because he knows he needed greats to win only difference is the other greats organizations acquired them to join the great they had but Cleveland failed at that

7. Again you caught up in media plants..if they are plants why take anything the say seriously? You are smart enough to see thru it so why do you take that and correlate it to downplaying lebron? Thats like if u have a bunch of stans on here that say bull**** and i just start hating on you lmao….All n all to me if you’re gonna thoroughly examine his career for holes then do it across the board but thats never the case

And so u say the longer he plays, the more holes u can poke but u have him #2 on strictly longevity? Interesting ,Thats like what i mentioned in a post earlier, people downplay mjs greatness because they focus on the 6rings too much but if u strip away everyone’s rings he still has the strongest goat case to me..just like bron has the strongest case for #2 if he retired 6-7 years ago.

You done made me type my longest post on here too man lmfao smh
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I think u’re misconstruing what I said.

I never downplayed his longevity. I’ve steadily said longevity is “a” part of the GOAT argument, but it’s not “thee” part. The longer u play, the longer u’re scrutinized, u begin to accumulate negative stats, as well.

Let me give u a prime example; part of LBJ fans argument against MJ are his Wizard yrs. As a 39-40 yr old, MJ superseded all expectations, but those yrs taint his aura, & it slightly dims his Bulls yrs from 1984-1998.

I’m also not caught up in media plants, I’m explaining to u of why LBJ’s resume is now being hyper scrutinized. Furthermore, did u just say MJ played for a great organization??? Ninja is u crazy! Lol. The Bulls were bums b4 MJ & have been bums after MJ. He played for arguably the worst owner in NBA & the worst GM WHO FIRED THE COACH WHO JUST WON A CHIP B/C HE THOUGHT HE DESERVED MORE CREDIT!

Did Bron not leave Cleveland & joined a world championship organization, with OUTSTANDING LEADERSHIP in Miami? Like, bruh what r u talking about? He chose to go there & chose to leave. He tried to get Spolstra fired, like let’s be real here. Lol

Lastly, LBJ has a MEDIA COMPANY champ. Lol. I’m not sure y u think these r “narratives” when it’s a known fact several media guys are also Klutch clients. Lol.

Bro, I’ve seen both MJ & LBJ play live. LBJ is great, one of one, but MJ was on a whole other level.
 
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E1k said:
1. You should go listen to the full statement he made, but this is typical bron hate narratives lol hang on to a headline statement and make a whole argument to judge his basketball character lol he just got done saying in that same interview we have to be perfect and i dont wanna be around people who dont strive for that

3. So this is funny…is a player u say yourself is 2nd, mostly everyone considers hims 2nd…Why tf would he not feel he is the goat?Why would anyone that reached that level not believe that? And wtf does him saying he makes the right plays have to do with his stats and accomplishments? Has he not shown to make high iq plays? I don’t understand how that statement is correlated to accomplishments/stats..But again its you using an off the court statement in the argument, i think thats where we differ on this

4. Bro u literally just downplayed his longevity and said the longer he plays the more bad records he will have…Who tf cares lmao? Who sees someone play great for this long and says lets see the negatives you get while u continue to play??? And again you are caught up in what his stans use as arguments instead of reality, why would u ever take someone downplaying mj or magic serious?? Lmao bro cmon man you too caught up in bs narratives that both sides push

5. Brother again caught up in narratives. Literally mj kobe magic had people with connections in media that push there narratives. It’s just bigger now and either way stan opinions shouldn’t be taking seriously from either side because you have people on mj side kobe side spewing bs narratives against bron as well does that mean u should start downplaying what they did???

6. This one here is just hilarious and such a tired narrative and its not even just a lebron thing to me at this point. Mj magic kobe shaq duncan literally pick a great player all had the luxury of having great organizations that made great moves that kept them competing and improving. And every great player and champion had great players with them, so was lebron supposed to just stay in Cleveland when the front office were completely terrible at their job? No he took control of his career because he knows he needed greats to win only difference is the other greats organizations acquired them to join the great they had but Cleveland failed at that

7. Again you caught up in media plants..if they are plants why take anything the say seriously? You are smart enough to see thru it so why do you take that and correlate it to downplaying lebron? Thats like if u have a bunch of stans on here that say bull**** and i just start hating on you lmao….All n all to me if you’re gonna thoroughly examine his career for holes then do it across the board but thats never the case

And so u say the longer he plays, the more holes u can poke but u have him #2 on strictly longevity? Interesting ,Thats like what i mentioned in a post earlier, people downplay mjs greatness because they focus on the 6rings too much but if u strip away everyone’s rings he still has the strongest goat case to me..just like bron has the strongest case for #2 even if he retired 6-7 years ago.

You done made me type my longest post on here too man lmfao smh
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If bron can read a full book maybe I’ll consider him #1 lol
 
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