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Off-Topic Crime 2.0

301cane said:
This isn't exactly new, street pharmacists in DC/Baltimore have done this since at least the 80's for the same reason, lighter juvenile penalties.
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Never said it was new… but it’s a strategy picked up by groups like antifa
 
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JeddTheFisch said:
They may get it. I'm just personally a life without parole guy (but zero sympathy for those that score death).
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Senseless murder, pedophilia, rape & poaching are crimes that all deserve Death penalty retribution.

You kill a man for no reason at all, you don’t deserve the luxury of life in prison.

Prison isn’t really punishment in the same way that it once was, especially for two sh*thead kids like this, they’ll go to a high profile prison like BOP Beaumont & be initiated into one of several prison organizations like the Texas Synidcato, Tango Blast, Barrio Azteca or Mexikanemi, in which they’ll be used by higher ups within the organization who are also lifers to murder rival inmates in their political prison Wars. Then after they’ve proven their usefulness, they’ll get moved up in rank & live like a King behind the walls.

Life in prison is really only a punishment existentially for those who have a moral conscious. And while most people who commit heinous crimes when they’re young usually develop them over time after realizing the depth of the act they committed, but by that time they’re much older & wiser haven’t actually suffered, except for losing their freedom.

Life in prison for a lot of criminals is actually a badge of honor, not a mark of shame & it really isn’t a deterrent of future crimes. The only way to truly punish a murderer/rapist/pedophile is to put them to Death.
 
Memnon said:
Senseless murder, pedophilia, rape & poaching are crimes that all deserve Death penalty retribution.

You kill a man for no reason at all, you don’t deserve the luxury of life in prison.

Prison isn’t really punishment in the same way that it once was, especially for two sh*thead kids like this, they’ll go to a high profile prison like BOP Beaumont & be initiated into one of several prison organizations like the Texas Synidcato, Tango Blast, Barrio Azteca or Mexikanemi, in which they’ll be used by higher ups within the organization who are also lifers to murder rival inmates in their political prison Wars. Then after they’ve proven their usefulness, they’ll get moved up in rank & live like a King behind the walls.

Life in prison is really only a punishment existentially for those who have a moral conscious. And while most people who commit heinous crimes when they’re young usually develop them over time after realizing the depth of the act they committed, but by that time they’re much older & wiser haven’t actually suffered, except for losing their freedom.

Life in prison for a lot of criminals is actually a badge of honor, not a mark of shame & it really isn’t a deterrent of future crimes. The only way to truly punish a murderer/rapist/pedophile is to put them to Death.
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I have no arguments to the contrary. Fry em.
 
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Memnon said:
Senseless murder, pedophilia, rape & poaching are crimes that all deserve Death penalty retribution.

You kill a man for no reason at all, you don’t deserve the luxury of life in prison.

Prison isn’t really punishment in the same way that it once was, especially for two sh*thead kids like this, they’ll go to a high profile prison like BOP Beaumont & be initiated into one of several prison organizations like the Texas Synidcato, Tango Blast, Barrio Azteca or Mexikanemi, in which they’ll be used by higher ups within the organization who are also lifers to murder rival inmates in their political prison Wars. Then after they’ve proven their usefulness, they’ll get moved up in rank & live like a King behind the walls.

Life in prison is really only a punishment existentially for those who have a moral conscious. And while most people who commit heinous crimes when they’re young usually develop them over time after realizing the depth of the act they committed, but by that time they’re much older & wiser haven’t actually suffered, except for losing their freedom.

Life in prison for a lot of criminals is actually a badge of honor, not a mark of shame & it really isn’t a deterrent of future crimes. The only way to truly punish a murderer/rapist/pedophile is to put them to Death.
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And you're right: I was projecting the prison conditions of Florida and Louisiana onto the country. That's just not accurate.
 
Tony4Miami said:
What if framed murderer or rapist are put to death and were really innocent?? Happens way too much.
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For rape it can be a problem, but it would be possible to add the provision that the Death penalty only goes in cases in which it is undisputed & unquestioned without a reasonable doubt that the person convicted is the one who did it.

Like in the case above for example, there’d be no possible way that those two kids were framed for murder, they did it.

In cases where there isn’t sufficient enough substantial evidence where a legitimate appeal can be made, then sure.

But in cases where it’s beyond clear that the assailant is guilty, then proceed.
 
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Memnon said:
Senseless murder, pedophilia, rape & poaching are crimes that all deserve Death penalty retribution.

You kill a man for no reason at all, you don’t deserve the luxury of life in prison.

Prison isn’t really punishment in the same way that it once was, especially for two sh*thead kids like this, they’ll go to a high profile prison like BOP Beaumont & be initiated into one of several prison organizations like the Texas Synidcato, Tango Blast, Barrio Azteca or Mexikanemi, in which they’ll be used by higher ups within the organization who are also lifers to murder rival inmates in their political prison Wars. Then after they’ve proven their usefulness, they’ll get moved up in rank & live like a King behind the walls.

Life in prison is really only a punishment existentially for those who have a moral conscious. And while most people who commit heinous crimes when they’re young usually develop them over time after realizing the depth of the act they committed, but by that time they’re much older & wiser haven’t actually suffered, except for losing their freedom.

Life in prison for a lot of criminals is actually a badge of honor, not a mark of shame & it really isn’t a deterrent of future crimes. The only way to truly punish a murderer/rapist/pedophile is to put them to Death.
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This is so well put and yet I am ethically torn to shreds over the death penalty. There are three reasons for this:

1. The historic use of the death penalty against ethnic and political minorities. I do not think capital punishment is the same as genocide, nor am I conflating the two. However, you do not need a genocidal regime to use jurisprudence against the disadvantaged of society, whether that’s the poor unable to gain an equitable defense or the minorities I mentioned previously. There are countless degrees between going to jail for 20 years for pot and judicial homicide, but a society that condones the death penalty, to my conscience, is closer to one that condones lynchings and mob violence.

2. The unpardonable moral sin of executing an innocent person. Simply by the law of averages we have executed a not insignificant number of innocent men and women. We will never know the number, how could we, and that sends a cold shiver up my neck. While the ability to prove beyond any reasonable doubt is ever increasing, uncertainty will still mean that so long as there are judicial homicides there will be innocent lives taken. Now, each conviction and imprisonment carries with itself the possibility of error, but with the death penalty there is no recompense for the aggrieved and wrongly convicted. In fact, I believe it disincentives further work to correct the mistaken conviction, because justice can no longer take place, aside from “correcting the record.”

3. I am a follower of Christ, a scripture-is-the-inerrant-word-of-God Christian. As such, I am accustomed to tension within what I believe and what I witness in the rest of the world. I am used to wrestling with what I see, what I read, what I feel, what I think, and what the Word says of it all. When I look at scripture, I take Christ at his word that living by the sword means dying by it. I believe that final judgement cannot be carried out on Earth, ie in this life, and intentionally ending a person’s opportunity for repentance, no matter their crimes, is a fearful role to play. Terrifying, really. Yet I am aware they’ve most often made the choices that brought them to this place, they have irreparably harmed others, in the case of these two men they have stolen a life. In the case of pedophiles and rapists, they have stolen innocence and murdered the spirit inside a person, at least for a time. I would also add that despite the love of Christ, my flesh wants these men dead. I want the abuser of my sibling dead. I want the leaders of dictatorial regimes in Yeman and Syria burned alive, I want violence to satisfy the debt of justice delayed, I want the orphaned and the starving to believe that God hears their cries echoing in the tortured screams of their oppressors.

Yet I do not think I am right in any of this. I am fearful that condoning the death penalty, seeing it as a just end for an evil life, pulls at the worst parts of my flesh. It feels like a perversion of justice, because I am not just enough to kill anyone.

I really don’t know that I disagree with the facts of what you’ve said. You make excellent and factual points about the future for these young men, if they are granted the reprieve of life in prison. And most everything I said is philosophical, thus the wrestling in my heart and mind over the issue. Really, I hope — perhaps naively — that there is another solution somewhere. A deeper wisdom on the matter.
 
IndayArtHauz said:
This is so well put and yet I am ethically torn to shreds over the death penalty. There are three reasons for this:

1. The historic use of the death penalty against ethnic and political minorities. I do not think capital punishment is the same as genocide, nor am I conflating the two. However, you do not need a genocidal regime to use jurisprudence against the disadvantaged of society, whether that’s the poor unable to gain an equitable defense or the minorities I mentioned previously. There are countless degrees between going to jail for 20 years for pot and judicial homicide, but a society that condones the death penalty, to my conscience, is closer to one that condones lynchings and mob violence.

2. The unpardonable moral sin of executing an innocent person. Simply by the law of averages we have executed a not insignificant number of innocent men and women. We will never know the number, how could we, and that sends a cold shiver up my neck. While the ability to prove beyond any reasonable doubt is ever increasing, uncertainty will still mean that so long as there are judicial homicides there will be innocent lives taken. Now, each conviction and imprisonment carries with itself the possibility of error, but with the death penalty there is no recompense for the aggrieved and wrongly convicted. In fact, I believe it disincentives further work to correct the mistaken conviction, because justice can no longer take place, aside from “correcting the record.”

3. I am a follower of Christ, a scripture-is-the-inerrant-word-of-God Christian. As such, I am accustomed to tension within what I believe and what I witness in the rest of the world. I am used to wrestling with what I see, what I read, what I feel, what I think, and what the Word says of it all. When I look at scripture, I take Christ at his word that living by the sword means dying by it. I believe that final judgement cannot be carried out on Earth, ie in this life, and intentionally ending a person’s opportunity for repentance, no matter their crimes, is a fearful role to play. Terrifying, really. Yet I am aware they’ve most often made the choices that brought them to this place, they have irreparably harmed others, in the case of these two men they have stolen a life. In the case of pedophiles and rapists, they have stolen innocence and murdered the spirit inside a person, at least for a time. I would also add that despite the love of Christ, my flesh wants these men dead. I want the abuser of my sibling dead. I want the leaders of dictatorial regimes in Yeman and Syria burned alive, I want violence to satisfy the debt of justice delayed, I want the orphaned and the starving to believe that God hears their cries echoing in the tortured screams of their oppressors.

Yet I do not think I am right in any of this. I am fearful that condoning the death penalty, seeing it as a just end for an evil life, pulls at the worst parts of my flesh. It feels like a perversion of justice, because I am not just enough to kill anyone.

I really don’t know that I disagree with the facts of what you’ve said. You make excellent and factual points about the future for these young men, if they are granted the reprieve of life in prison. And most everything I said is philosophical, thus the wrestling in my heart and mind over the issue. Really, I hope — perhaps naively — that there is another solution somewhere. A deeper wisdom on the matter.
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Of course there’s always errors & mistakes made, imperfect system produces imperfect results.

And yes the justice system historically has been used as an apparatus in furthering racial injustices, however, there are some crimes that are not debatable as to the impact they have on the people that are traumatized & victimized by said acts. There is no justice in a world where a person can kill someone or sexually abuse a child & not actually be punished for it, except not having the ability to walk free in society. Even in the harshest conditions, getting life in prison in today’s day & age is simply a matter of how well equipped the person is to deal with that environment & how quickly they can adapt & adjust to their circumstances. Meaning, just because you take a murderer off the street doesn’t keep them from being a murderer, a lot of times, they end up continue killing while in prison & often times as well, they are lauded by their fellow inmates for their capability to commit murder.

The same could even be said for pedos & rapists in prison. Most people believe that *** offenders have a hard time in prison & in most cases they probably do, however, that’s really only if they maintain their stay in general population (which most of them rarely ever do). They have protective custody units in every prison for inmates who are guilty of those type of crimes, which means they basically go to a separate part of the prison where they are on a unit with inmates who have committed the same type of crimes & therefore are in far less danger than they would be amongst the other criminals. Which ultimately means, these guys molest, rape & sexually abuse children & then go to prison & spend their sentence with likeminded individuals, that’s not punishment, that’s not justice.

As for the Christian aspect of it, I respect where you’re coming from, but repentance is a personal trial that each individual has to undergo on their own, it’s not the job of the state to facilitate the potentiality of a faith-based epiphany for specific crimes. While I agree in the metaphysical concept that no one man has the overarching cosmic power to judge another man’s soul, but in a non-theocratic society we have to have laws & judgement in the presence of the social-contract in order to prevent from people simply committing heinous crimes & then falsely claiming religious awakening & asking for forgiveness as a means to absolve them of their crimes.

I’m not arguing that every single crime should have the threat of the Death penalty; I’m saying that in cases where it is undoubted that person is guilty of a very serious crime such as murder, rape, pedophilia, that the only real way to truly levy justice in those cases is to put them to Death. Maybe they repent, maybe they change, maybe they’re really sorry for what they did & good for them if that happens... When they go meet God they can tell him all about it.

Scott Peterson is still alive, why? Because his Death sentence was overturned & he resentenced to Life with no parole.
If Scott Peterson found Jesus & sincerely apologized for murdering his pregnant wife & child, what exactly does that mean? Do you think he’s being tortured everyday while in prison or being forced to suffer in such a way that it can resolve his action? Nope, he’s in San Quentin in the SHU (Segregated Housing Unit), reading books all day. Is that justice?
 
I for one say death penalty without a date, the criminals should not know wheb it is going to happen. Just one day the squad comes in and drags them to the Chair!
 
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