Corey Heatherman revisited..

[Allabouttheu95]

There’s no picture changing. What you see pre snap is what you see post snap. The DL has been very inconsistent but alot of the reason for lack of pass rush is everyone knows where they’re going pre snap. They rarely guess wrong. Things are very predictable. You rarely see patting of the ball by the qb , leaving the pocket early or choppy feet. Which tells me they’re trusting their eyes. They’re very decisive.

This nails it. On top of having no pass rush what so ever. All of us on here have been fans for a long time. I’ve never witnessed a team stop the run at such an elite clip like we do but yet can’t rush the passer to save our life. I’ve never seen it before

 

[Roe 15th00]

There are several problems with this defense, and the blame doesn't fall solely on Heatherman. The tackling has been awful. We swarm to the ball, but too often the first defender misses. We're also overly aggressive at times, which leads to bad angles and lost leverage. One quick sidestep by the ball carrier, and our guys are left grabbing air. We also give receivers far too much cushion, making it easy pitch and catch for opposing quarterbacks. Is that because we're missing our top cover corner? I don't think so. O'Connor could start for most D1 programs, and Lucas was one of the top freshman corners in the country a few seasons ago. Will things improve when OJ and Antoine return? Maybe, but I don't know. What I do know is that these issues go beyond Heatherman.

A lot of those issues are coaching or the lack of coaching….

 

[hurricaneman]

I'm just gonna say this:

Xavier Lucas, Lightfoot, Wilson, Fitzgerald, Dunnigan, Scott, Moten, Blount...these are extremely talented players. Maybe they're not all at the level we thought but there's a ton of talent there. They're certainly not, "give up a TD on every single drive" level of talent.

It's coaching. Whether you're running a scheme that these specific players struggle with or you're just not doing your job teaching or scheming, these guys should not be swiss cheese against a very average offense.

 

[mossmadness]

The issue is coaching.

Would tackling help? Sure.
Would getting healthy help? Sure.

But F+ has UNC’s offense at 63 coming into this game.

All the teams on their schedule up to this point have just been great at tackling with great pass rushes? And you’d gladly trade secondary talent with all of them?

If the answer is “no,” then why have they found the UNC offense so easy to defend and we made them look unstoppable?

 

[Stingarov]

Seems like he didn’t make many/any adjustments and was outcoached by Petrino.

He panicked & threw in some cover 2 man late.

At the wrong time & situation of course, so the mouthbreathers were like "dur hur theres your c2m" in the game day thread.

He was exposed hard and either improves or gets Guidryed & replaced by Klanderman or Aranda this offseason

 

[oso4lyf]

He panicked & threw in some cover 2 man late.

At the wrong time & situation of course, so the mouthbreathers were like "dur hur theres your c2m" in the game day thread.

He was exposed hard and either improves or gets Guidryed & replaced by Klanderman or Aranda this offseason

Or Venable

 

[90scane]

We are missing 5 NFL types, 3 starters. Those spots have been filled by JJ, Lightfoot, Blount, Smith, and Fitz (but Poysner is playing 8s roll). It's a mix of talent and bad fit compared to last year. Blount isn't Bain but is banged up. Lightfoot has played the best out of that group but is undersized and asked to play coverage when his best skill is meeting at the QB. Smith isn't as fast as Wesley which is why 17 got snaps. I'd like to see more of Wilson and less of Blount. I'd like to see Fitz deep and Poysner in the box (less room to cover, less thinking...)

The rest of the D hasn't lifted their floors. CB room has been missing OJ, Antoine, Lucas for most of the season. Brown may have been hurt, too. The DTs have to do more and aren't. Our portal DTs haven't produced as much as Simpson...

Heatherman & staff have to find answers and get more out of the kids.

 

[TaylorWalls]

A lot of those issues are coaching or the lack of coaching….

You know it's an emotional fan board when people are claiming that everything comes down to coaching. Like the #1 team in the country doesn't have coaches who know how to teach high school-level tackling.

It's okay to say sometimes that the players just aren't that good.

 

[mossmadness]

I don't hate the strategy. When you have your own explosive offense, take away their run and make them throw underneath and kick FGs. It does require being able to tackle though.

It’s not a good strategy.

You’re playing into what the less talented teams want you to do.

UNC is not an explosive offense. They don’t want to have to make big plays.
They want to play defense. Shorten the game. Be efficient and methodical on offense.

And we let them do that.

When you are the better team, ANY strategy that shortens the game by limiting the number of possessions run in the game, is a dumb strategy.

It reduces your chances of winning.

Think Lincoln Riley at Oklahoma. Ideally he would have built a defense that could get stops. But he couldn’t. So he built the team around turning it into a shootout. And they ended up winning those shootouts. Frequently comfortably. Yeah the opposing team was scoring 35, but it didn’t matter because he was scoring 56. It was a comfortable win despite the amount of points given up. Because of the number of plays being run in the game allowed his team to get 3 TD wins.

One of the game that sticks out during that run was the Army game. I think OU scored every time they had the ball but maybe once. But the game went to overtime because Army’s offense, unlike the Big 12 teams, essentially refused to score fast. So OU only had the ball like 4 or 5 times the entire game.

Heatherman’s strategy on defense, if he can’t get stops, is going to make the games closer than they need to be because he’s limiting our offensive possessions too much. While still allowing opposing offenses these death march scoring drives.

 

[jps2344]

Any doubts? Was last years success mainly due to elite talent? Is this years failure lack thereof?

Just curious. Not flaming or excusing. I’m conflicted.

Still a believer myself. Petrino may be a disaster as a human, but he’s as legit as it gets when it comes to X’s and O’s. Nonetheless was disappointed in the performance like most.

More than anything it’s a massive difference in elite talent, seasoned elite talent specifically. You had bookends who were the two best defensive players in college football along with two guys in the backend who could play on the line and in coverage at an elite level. It’s a talented group but one with guys have been put through trial by fire. The one dimensional linebacker play doesn’t help either. It’s just thump or bust with them.

I’ve been told there’s a reasonable chance we get someone back this week in the back end. Let’s hope that helps, cause we need it.

 

[CityboyCanes4life82]

Any doubts? Was last years success mainly due to elite talent? Is this years failure lack thereof?

Just curious. Not flaming or excusing. I’m conflicted.

Honestly it just an over reaction by fans.
I’ve said this before, and I’ll say it again. When you’re playing that many young guys due to injuries, we have to understand that there are going to be growing pains and that we need to be patient. Some weeks they’re going to look great, and other weeks they’re going to struggle. That’s part of developing young players.

But here’s the part I really want to emphasize. You can’t learn if you never fail. A player can practice all week, watch all the film they want, and think they understand everything. But sometimes you have to get beat in a real game to understand what you did wrong. That’s how you learn. That’s how you improve. And that’s how you become a better football player.

A perfect example was our Freshman Safety. UNC was first or second and goal and he took a few steps backwards..lol. I understand that’s what you are taught. But my boy, you are in the end zone and you literally can’t get beat deep. Play underneath and allow the back of the end zone to be the extra defender.

 

[Cane4L]

Serious question, what is the point of blitzing from 15 yards out? For a team that can’t cover, the chances of ever getting to the quarterback are literally 0.001%.

 

[Golsen82]

1. The injuries are a bigger reason than you think losing OJ and Antoine is massive. Now we have to play 27, 0, 2, and 24 WAY more than we should. A defensive backfield of Poyser, Dunnigan, Bryce, Lucas, OJ, and Antoine beats the **** out of 0, 27, 2, and 24.

2. 9 and 1 in coverage is a BIG problem. OC’s are targeting them in the passing game even on “running downs” because it’s easy

3. The missed tackles. 2nd and 8’s are 2nd and 3’s because the first guy on the perimeter isn’t making the play.

^^^^ those are the main issues with the defense

Its sad we may lose Glover to UGA

 

[MiamisMoperiestMopes]

It’s not a good strategy.

You’re playing into what the less talented teams want you to do.

UNC is not an explosive offense. They don’t want to have to make big plays.
They want to play defense. Shorten the game. Be efficient and methodical on offense.

And we let them do that.

When you are the better team, ANY strategy that shortens the game by limiting the number of possessions run in the game, is a dumb strategy.

It reduces your chances of winning.

Think Lincoln Riley at Oklahoma. Ideally he would have built a defense that could get stops. But he couldn’t. So he built the team around turning it into a shootout. And they ended up winning those shootouts. Frequently comfortably. Yeah the opposing team was scoring 35, but it didn’t matter because he was scoring 56. It was a comfortable win despite the amount of points given up. Because of the number of plays being run in the game allowed his team to get 3 TD wins.

One of the game that sticks out during that run was the Army game. I think OU scored every time they had the ball but maybe once. But the game went to overtime because Army’s offense, unlike the Big 12 teams, essentially refused to score fast. So OU only had the ball like 4 or 5 times the entire game.

Heatherman’s strategy on defense, if he can’t get stops, is going to make the games closer than they need to be because he’s limiting our offensive possessions too much. While still allowing opposing offenses these death march scoring drives.

Found this interesting, through week 8, only 5 P4 teams had 8 possessions (the lowest count). We had 8 and the final was basically a kneel down situation.

Team​	Opponent​	Week​
Illinois	UAB	1
Vanderbilt	Austin Peay	1
Houston	Georgia Southern	4
Virginia	SMU	7
Wisconsin	UCLA	7

 

[Elmer Leghorn]

You think Wiley is done here?

Yes

 

[mossmadness]

Found this interesting, through week 8, only 5 P4 teams had 8 possessions (the lowest count). We had 8 and the final was basically a kneel down situation.

Team​	Opponent​	Week​
Illinois	UAB	1
Vanderbilt	Austin Peay	1
Houston	Georgia Southern	4
Virginia	SMU	7
Wisconsin	UCLA	7

All offenses that don’t want to get into a track meet.

Even Houston, which has a very good offense, can’t creates explosives. They are elite at down to down efficiency.

If we played Houston tomorrow, our soft zone where we concede passes up to a certain amount of yards, would be everything Houston would want.

 

[HicksFix]

You think Wiley is done here?

Man I hope not. Toure and Smith are both gone. He will have two years to play. I know Pops wasn’t happy with his playing time and playing seniority players over the best players. The season isnt lost, but he needs reps

 

[CityboyCanes4life82]

There’s no picture changing. What you see pre snap is what you see post snap. The DL has been very inconsistent but alot of the reason for lack of pass rush is everyone knows where they’re going pre snap. They rarely guess wrong. Things are very predictable. You rarely see patting of the ball by the qb , leaving the pocket early or choppy feet. Which tells me they’re trusting their eyes. They’re very decisive.

I somewhat disagree. I actually think Heatherman called the right defenses, but our young players struggled with their assignments. And when I say blew assignments, I don’t necessarily mean they didn’t know where they were supposed to be. They generally knew their zones, but they haven’t developed the experience to anticipate what’s coming.

That’s what separates good defensive players from elite ones. It’s not just knowing where to line up or what zone to cover. It’s understanding route combinations, recognizing formations, and anticipating what the offense is trying to do.

I’ve said this before. Sometimes these young guys have to experience failure to learn. When an offense lines up in trips, bunch sets, or a 2x2 formation, there are certain route combinations they can only run and film shows what they like to run out of those sets. Based on the alignment, down and distance, and tendencies.

Experienced DBs recognize those patterns and react before the receiver even makes his break. Young guys are still reacting after they see the route develop. That’s a huge difference.

And that’s what makes Corey Heatherman’s defense so unique. It allows for a lot of freelancing, but that freedom comes with responsibility. Experienced players who understand route concepts can anticipate what the offense is doing and make plays without having to be told exactly where to go every second. But when you’re young and still learning those concepts, that same freedom can lead to mistakes because they are hesitant and not playing fast.

These guys aren’t lacking talent or being put in bad defensive calls. They’re learning how to play the game mentally, and that only comes with experience. Sometimes getting beat is exactly what teaches you what to anticipate the next time.

 

[KingB02]

Any doubts? Was last years success mainly due to elite talent? Is this years failure lack thereof?

Just curious. Not flaming or excusing. I’m conflicted.

Guidry did the same thing Heatherman has done. Had an elite defense with Kam, James and them and the following year we struggled because the elite talent was gone. This year we are trying to play the same as last year, but we don’t have a the horses on the back end. We have to play our corners up sometimes and trust that they can make enough plays. Because letting teams drive for 10 minutes and keeping everything in front of us has not worked very well. We’ve made every QB we have played have a dream game smh. We cannot continue to play this way!

 

[NC_Canes_11]

What should concern you the most is the tackling. It’s horrific. It’s almost impossible to get off the field when every 3 yard pass turns into a 10 yard gain bc the first guy never brings down the ball carrier.

We are in the elite category when it comes to stopping pass plays over 20 yards, but are **** near 100th in allowing pass plays over 10.