forums

MEGA Conference Realignment and lawsuits Megathread(Its still personal)

Advertisement
Rickd said:
ESPN might actually want the ACCN to be shut down so they can focus investments on the SEC which is their stated priority property. This isn't happening in a vacuum ... there IS media partner input. I believe that ESPN has NO interest in extending the media agreement past its current expiration date of June 30, 2027. The conference will lose key brands in 25 and 26, and whoever is left will be joined by G5 programs added to backfill. Any new media offer for the period 2027 and on ... will be a fraction of the current one and nobody on a national level will even see an ACC game after that, except on limited regional streaming services.
Click to expand...

SEC is definitely their priority property but the ACC also makes them a ton of money. I don't like ESPN, but the fact is they gambled with the deal and won. At the time they made the deal, they offered the ACC more than what other conferences were getting because they expected college football to continue to grow. The risk was that the conference could be garbage in 10 years, with almost no viewers. If the worst came to pass, they would still be paying the 40-50 million per acc team, even if losing money. The bet paid off for them.

Other conferences built in shorter windows so they could re-negotiate, but the trade off is they take on more risk of having some bad years, and the next time they don't make as much money (or the major networks have made deals with more lucrative conferences and aren't interested in the price the conference is asking). It's like a 22 year old NFL player signing a 3 year deal worth 30 million instead of a 5 year deal worth 45 million. He's gambling he's going to have 3 great years and be in line for a megacontract when he's 25, but trading the chance of having guaranteed income.

SEC obviously isn't going to add all the ACC teams to the SEC, so they would probably add 2 teams. That means 12 teams would go to other conferences and they would lose out on the revenue (or at best a fraction of what they got if ESPN has revenue sharing with other networks). The amount of money ESPN would make by shifting 2 top market teams to the SEC isn't going to make up for the amount of money lost by the other 12 teams going to other networks. They aren't going to let the ACC dissolve to try to get out of the contract. I think you are wrong that ESPN has no interest in extending the media agreement. ESPN would have a huge amount of interest in forcing the remaining acc teams to stay in the conference and take less money than just letting 12 teams walk. And unsurprisingly, their astute lawyers thought of this contingency. This is why the ESPN lawyers actually built into the contract that if the number of ACC teams drops below 15, ESPN has the right to renegotiate the media deal and lower the payouts.
 
Last edited:
Rickd said:
Damages will be very difficult to establish, especially if ESPN simply states they are not extending the media agreement past June 30, 2027. They had the option to extend in 2021 ... and they chose not to. There is no media agreement past June 30, 2027, just 3 more seasons, and we are entering 2024, and if teams "leaving" leave for 2027. No damages.
Click to expand...

The damages would be whatever that team will end up making versus what they were making with Clemson, FSU, and whoever else in the ACC. I would argue, the collusion between networks and conferences allowed them to establish better payouts for certain schools and more lucrative deals for themselves where, if they were operating in a vacuum and not with each other, they likely wouldn't have received those payouts. The harmed teams would have had a better chance at either keeping the conference whole, and keeping the value, or getting a better deal on the exit.

If the balance in payouts to schools is a function of higher earning schools being evenly distributed amongst conferences, you have a case where networks and conferences colluded to consolidate to better their own situations.

It may be why Miami has zero interest in speaking about any of this.
 
Handsome Squidbum said:
SEC is definitely their priority property but the ACC also makes them a ton of money. I don't like ESPN, but the fact is they gambled with the deal and won. At the time they made the deal, they offered the ACC more than what other conferences were getting because they expected college football to continue to grow. The risk was that the conference could be garbage in 10 years, with almost no viewers. If the worst came to pass, they would still be paying the 40-50 million per acc team, even if losing money. The bet paid off for them.

Other conferences built in shorter windows so they could re-negotiate, but the trade off is they take on more risk of having some bad years, and the next time they don't make as much money (or the major networks have made deals with more lucrative conferences and aren't interested in the price the conference is asking). It's like a 22 year old NFL player signing a 3 year deal worth 30 million instead of a 5 year deal worth 45 million. He's gambling he's going to have 3 great years and be in line for a megacontract when he's 25, but trading the chance of having guaranteed income.

SEC obviously isn't going to add all the ACC teams to the SEC, so they would probably add 2 teams. That means 12 teams would go to other conferences and they would lose out on the revenue (or at best a fraction of what they got if ESPN has revenue sharing with other networks). The amount of money ESPN would make by shifting 2 top market teams to the SEC isn't going to make up for the amount of money lost by the other 12 teams going to other networks. They aren't going to let the ACC dissolve to try to get out of the contract. Simply not how the real world works.
Click to expand...
Might take more than the next 2 years but the SEC isn't topping out at 18. The way this entire "P2" and realignment is going it is feasible that they both end up at more than 20 each, and there have been a lot of models of two 24 team conferences. The SEC won't just add 2 and stay pat for very long.
 
Advertisement
Felonious Monk said:
Finally, someone said it. Elephant in the room, am I right?
Click to expand...

I mean, if you think you're going to get your butt handed to you in football then make yourself the basketball equivalent of what the BIG10/SEC are doing. Then start your own league for basketball after the SEC/BIG10 do that in football. At least you keep your own piece of the sporting pie.

If you can keep the spirit in college basketball maybe people will gravitate even more to it once football is demolished through corporate greed.
 
hurricaneman said:
The damages would be whatever that team will end up making versus what they were making with Clemson, FSU, and whoever else in the ACC. I would argue, the collusion between networks and conferences allowed them to establish better payouts for certain schools and more lucrative deals for themselves where, if they were operating in a vacuum and not with each other, they likely wouldn't have received those payouts. The harmed teams would have had a better chance at either keeping the conference whole, and keeping the value, or getting a better deal on the exit.

If the balance in payouts to schools is a function of higher earning schools being evenly distributed amongst conferences, you have a case where networks and conferences colluded to consolidate to better their own situations.

It may be why Miami has zero interest in speaking about any of this.
Click to expand...
Every program IN the ACC has the right to leave ... there is an established PROCEDURE and COST of exit stated in the bylaws. That figure is $120 million approximately. You cannot sue somebody for exercising their contractual rights. Also, if ESPN does decide NOT to extend their media agreement past the 2026 season, everybody is in the same boat and no "damages" can be assessed period.
 
Fluffhead said:
Depends on who they are. If it is UF picking at the scrap yard of the SunBelt, it probably doesn't move the needle. If it is Bama with former head coaches and NFL coaches as analysts, then that helps. They called Sarkisian up from the bullpen the week of the championship game. Maybe two other schools would have that luxury after their OC went on a bender following the semis.
Click to expand...
Thankfully, Mario’s strategy is entirely different. Our assistants have been pretty good. You’d be surprised who hasn’t become public. Mario will take advantage, imo.
 
Rickd said:
Every program IN the ACC has the right to leave ... there is an established PROCEDURE and COST of exit stated in the bylaws. That figure is $120 million approximately. You cannot sue somebody for exercising their contractual rights. Also, if ESPN does decide NOT to extend their media agreement past the 2026 season, everybody is in the same boat and no "damages" can be assessed period.
Click to expand...

What does this statement have anything to do with ESPN/FOX colluding with the BIG10/SEC to consolidate valuable teams?

You cannot sue somebody for exercising their contractual rights.
Click to expand...

This has nothing to do with FSU/Clemson's lawsuit.

Also, if ESPN does decide NOT to extend their media agreement past the 2026 season, everybody is in the same boat and no "damages" can be assessed period.
Click to expand...

Really? If the ACC deal with ESPN ends because ESPN and FOX colluded to move teams from that conference to different ones there are no damages to the teams left over?

Look, if FOX and ESPN coordinated this in any way...if the BIG10/SEC coordinated this in any way with the networks...it's going to be a problem if someone chooses to go down that path. There are a lot of legislators in Washington D.C. that are alumnus of the schools that will be harmed or represent districts/states those schools are in. It won't take much to start this.
 
Advertisement
Rickd said:
Every program IN the ACC has the right to leave ... there is an established PROCEDURE and COST of exit stated in the bylaws. That figure is $120 million approximately. You cannot sue somebody for exercising their contractual rights. Also, if ESPN does decide NOT to extend their media agreement past the 2026 season, everybody is in the same boat and no "damages" can be assessed period.
Click to expand...

Yes, but that works the other way as well. The 120 million buyout is for each team that wants to leave the ACC. So if the ACC votes to dissolve, then 15 teams will each owe ESPN 120 million for exercising their contractual rights as they are effectively leaving the conference. It's not 120 million total for all teams in the ACC. As I said, contracts don't disappear when a company dissolves. These aren't damages, it's the exit fee which the acc teams actually wrote into the contract just in case they ever wanted to leave. There isn't a magic loophole where the ACC can say, "We found the secret! If between 1-7 teams leave, those teams would each have to pay ESPN 120 million in exit fees, but if we can get 8 or more teams to leave, then we all owe ESPN nothing!"

Do all 15 teams have 120 million each to pay ESPN for exercising their contractual rights? if 8 teams vote yes and 7 vote no, the 7 teams that vote no still owe the 120 million. Are the teams that voted yes going to pay the exit fees for the teams that voted no? And do you really think ESPN is going to shrug its shoulders and write off more than 1 billion dollars in exit fees that it is contractually owed?
 
Last edited:
Handsome Squidbum said:
Yes, but that works the other way as well. The 120 million buyout is for each team that wants to leave the ACC. So if the ACC votes to dissolve, then 15 teams will each owe ESPN 120 million for exercising their contractual rights as they are effectively leaving the conference. It's not 120 million total for all teams in the ACC. As I said, contracts don't disappear when a company dissolves. These aren't damages, it's the exit fee which the acc teams actually wrote into the contract just in case they ever wanted to leave. There isn't a magic loophole where the ACC can say, "We found the secret! If between 1-7 teams leave, those teams would each have to pay ESPN 120 million in exit fees, but if we can get 8 or more teams to leave, then we all owe ESPN nothing!"

Do all 15 teams have 120 million each to pay ESPN for exercising their contractual rights? if 8 teams vote yes and 7 vote no, the 7 teams that vote no still owe the 120 million. Are the teams that voted yes going to pay the exit fees for the teams that voted no? And do you really think ESPN is going to shrug its shoulders and write off more than 1 billion dollars in exit fees that it is contractually owed?
Click to expand...
The ACC conference exit fee is payable BY A MEMBER TO THE ACC CONFERENCE if they leave. It has nothing to do with ESPN. If 3 teams leave, they pay $120M each to the ACC and that money is split between the ACC conference members. If the ACC conference DISSOLVES .... there is no $120M exit fee as there is no conference. Period. Again ... the EXIT FEES have nothing to do with ESPN.
 
Advertisement
Currently there are TWO issues facing any ACC program that wants to leave the conference (not including knowing if the have a landing place):

1). The ACC exit fee is stated IN the conference bylaws, a formula of 3* operating expenses
and it is approximately $120 million. That is payable to the ACC conference and is distributed
amongst remaining conference members. Any team can leave by simply advising the
conference prior to Aug. 15 for the following season (8/15/24 for the 25 season). Pay and
you're out. No negotiating with anybody. You just leave without media rights.

2). The GOR / media rights. The current ESPN media agreement is effective until 6/31/2027
unless ESPN exercises the extension option ... which MIGHT BE invalid / void as it was
granted without member approval, violating ACC bylaws. The strongest aspect of the FSU
legal action is the 27 termination date of the GOR and unauthorized extension of the
option agreement. CURRENTLY it is believed that any team that DOES opt to leave, and
pays the ACC the $120M exit fee, would have to negotiate their media buyback with
ESPN for the period they are leaving, prior to the media agreement termination date of
June 31, 2027. So if FSU leaves in 2025, they would owe ESPN two seasons of media
rights 2025 and 2026. Period.

In the event that 8 programs vote to dissolve the ACC teams:

-no longer owe an exit fee to the ACC conference as it no longer exists
-the case is made that since the media agreement is with the conference and
not the members, the GOR and media agreement also end. Worst case, everybody
plays through the 2026 season, no media buyback required.

That is a summary of what the main beliefs are by those that are suing and there is also a belief that there will be a settlement of some nature driven by the media partners prior to having full court discovery, more dirty laundry being exposed, and a judges ruling.
 
Advertisement
FSU with new response in Leon county court… matching up with Clemson in South Carolina saying leaving conference removes them from grant of rights

IMG_7300.jpeg
 
Genetics the clown posted earlier that based on his “latest intel” we are “80% to the Big 12, 10% Big Ten, 10% ACC.” It’s hilarious because reading what he thinks about other teams confirms that his “intel” is just that 247 Article with no intel in it from last week.

Meanwhile he gives UVA nearly 50/50 odds despite the fact that they’ve publicly supported the ACC suits against Clemson and FSU, and haven’t been “proactive” in realignment. Also despite the fact that their TV numbers, home game attendance, etc. are all awful. But this goes to show again that the guy knows nothing about what’s actually going on with us. All his “intel” is based off of vibes and whatever they tell him in warchant.
 
Last thing I’ll say on that clown. I found this thread below that absolutely demolishes the idea that this guy actually knows anything.



Completely whiffed on the Oregon/Washington move, repeatedly said it wouldn’t happen, and made many of the same arguments then that he makes now against us getting into the BIG.

Honestly, the only time this guy should be posted in here is to point and laugh at him. Whatever info he does have he extrapolates it to whatever narrative he wants to believe.
 
Advertisement
Back
Top