MEGA Conference Realignment and lawsuits Megathread(Its still personal)

[SyracuseMiami]

This, plus the ACC badly wanted its own network after the huge success of the Big 10 Network and SEC having success with their own. ESPN was the only network agreeing to give the ACC a network, but only with the ACC signing up for such a long deal. Terrible deal all the way around.

I can understand the ACC's desire to have its own cable network and I can see ESPN's requirement for it to be a long-term deal to cover the costs of starting up an entirely new channel. However, 20 years??? Plus, if you are going to have such a long deal, you don't include automatic peek-in periods like once every 5 or 10 years to see how the agreement compares to market? As long as the ACC is keeping its end of the bargain with playoff appearances, maintaining a healthy representation in the top 25, etc., make sure the payout follows suit or allow the ACC to look elsewhere.

Right now, the only way the ACC can negotiate a better deal is to expand, but who do they bring in (aside from ND) that moves the needle?

Here is the thing I cannot reconcile. When the deal was done, the length was discussed as a concern. The public was told that there were indeed “look in’s” where the contract could be renegotiated if it became uncompetitive. These have not been discussed since.

I hope they exist and I hope they can actually be leveraged. There are several articles on the topic. The below was the first one I found via Google search.

TheOsceola - ACC Network contract 'look-ins' provide comfort to FSU's Thrasher

As the ACC enters a 20-year deal with ESPN, FSU's president takes comfort that there will be windows for renegotiation.

floridastate.rivals.com

 

[Tony4Canes]

I will still wait for that MN guy and Wilner

 

[CaneinBroward]

Here is the thing I cannot reconcile. When the deal was done, the length was discussed as a concern. The public was told that there were indeed “look in’s” where the contract could be renegotiated if it became uncompetitive. These have not been discussed since.

I hope they exist and I hope they can actually be leveraged. There are several articles on the topic. The below was the first one I found via Google search.

TheOsceola - ACC Network contract 'look-ins' provide comfort to FSU's Thrasher

As the ACC enters a 20-year deal with ESPN, FSU's president takes comfort that there will be windows for renegotiation.

floridastate.rivals.com

Thank you for sharing that article. Very interesting.

It says there are 3 look in's with the first being in 2021. My guess would be the next would be in 2027 or 2028? That sucks. There will have been 3 full years of dramatically lower payouts compared to the SEC and Big 10 by then. Let's hope the Canes get an invite before then.

 

[Gsugradcanefan]

I’m still waiting on why these idiots agreed to bind themselves until 2034 with no escape hatch.

ACC was out there signing its schools to Death Row Records 360 deals.

 

[CaneinBroward]

The original grant of rights deal was insanely dumb, but then the ACC doubled down by making the terrible Notre Dame deal. Remember, ND had NO OTHER OPTIONS to play sports during the covid year, the conference had all the leverage otherwise ND is playing maybe 2 games in football. That was when you force them to join as full members or get left out of playing games, and at the time who knew how long it would go on. Instead, now ND can get their $60m+ football deal from NBC AND they still get over $10m a year from the ACC for their other sports, making that $70m they're looking for to stay independent. It's so ridiculous how much the ACC bent over for Notre Dame while holding all the leverage.

You really don't think ND would have just sat out the 2020 year in football rather than being forced to join the ACC for 16 years in football? I do agree the ACC should have made a deal where ND joins the conference for 5 years as a concession in the hopes that they enjoy playing conference football and decide to stay.

However, they would have told the ACC to pound sand if forced into a corner for permanent membership. They have more money than God as is apparent by their acceptance of receiving $30 million less per year than Rutgers going forward.

At this point, the ACC's only hope is ND's hate for the Big 10 is extremely real and they decide to join the ACC as a full time member where the ACC will stay at a 8 conference game season while all the other major conferences are moving to 9. ND would have more flexibility to schedule USC and Navy as OOC games in that situation. However, the odds of that happening are close to nil.

 

[Rickd]

Here is the thing I cannot reconcile. When the deal was done, the length was discussed as a concern. The public was told that there were indeed “look in’s” where the contract could be renegotiated if it became uncompetitive. These have not been discussed since.

I hope they exist and I hope they can actually be leveraged. There are several articles on the topic. The below was the first one I found via Google search.

TheOsceola - ACC Network contract 'look-ins' provide comfort to FSU's Thrasher

As the ACC enters a 20-year deal with ESPN, FSU's president takes comfort that there will be windows for renegotiation.

floridastate.rivals.com

I heard comments from a journalist who had compared the ORIGINAL contract (a 3 page document) to the REVISED 20 page contract that included the extension to 2036 and the formation of the ACCNetwork. His opinion was that the agreement was "malleable", i.e. not iron clad, due to having a "comparable revenue clause" of some type ... that ... according to HIS interpretation ... could provide an escape clause if a program were not receiving revenue comparable to SIMILAR PROGRAMS in other conferences. Got to believe there IS some potential for a negotiated exit with less severe penalties if all of these programs (Clemson, Miami, FSU) are reportedly aggressively exploring conference realignment options. Another tactic could be ... get 8 programs to find other homes and thereby dissolve the ACC Conference.

Dan Patrick had stated that the SEC would be a take for Clemson / Miami / FSU / Va Tech .... if you add to that the BIG expansion taking programs with strong academics like UNC / UVA / Duke / Ga Tech ... you have your 8 programs and no more ACC Conference. The BIG becomes THE basketball conference as well.

 

[Canesq]

Does the AD ultimately make that decision or is it the University President? Is it possible Rad wanted to explore other options but the President said no we are staying put?

It’s possible which why I’m surprised we really haven’t heard much from it. Not that I was expecting him to throw his former boss under the bus.

That tells me that they are making a move and there is no reason to comment on the past if it could possibly complicate a future major move.

 

[Canesq]

The original grant of rights deal was insanely dumb, but then the ACC doubled down by making the terrible Notre Dame deal. Remember, ND had NO OTHER OPTIONS to play sports during the covid year, the conference had all the leverage otherwise ND is playing maybe 2 games in football. That was when you force them to join as full members or get left out of playing games, and at the time who knew how long it would go on. Instead, now ND can get their $60m+ football deal from NBC AND they still get over $10m a year from the ACC for their other sports, making that $70m they're looking for to stay independent. It's so ridiculous how much the ACC bent over for Notre Dame while holding all the leverage.

I remember being so ****ed about this. This is why I don’t understand why there hasn’t been a press conference to address this.

Maybe we are missing something but it doesn’t make sense why they didn’t strong arm them into the ACC.

 

[Alex Del Piero]

I will still wait for that MN guy and Wilner

the Minnesota guy is very active on Twitter, he linked Miami to the B1G a bunch of times

 

[Tony4Canes]

the Minnesota guy is very active on Twitter, he linked Miami to the B1G a bunch of times

What’s his name again? I need to follow him!!

 

[Alex Del Piero]

What’s his name again? I need to follow him!!

Greg Flugaur (@flugempire)

 

[dycane]

I heard comments from a journalist who had compared the ORIGINAL contract (a 3 page document) to the REVISED 20 page contract that included the extension to 2036 and the formation of the ACCNetwork. His opinion was that the agreement was "malleable", i.e. not iron clad, due to having a "comparable revenue clause" of some type ... that ... according to HIS interpretation ... could provide an escape clause if a program were not receiving revenue comparable to SIMILAR PROGRAMS in other conferences. Got to believe there IS some potential for a negotiated exit with less severe penalties if all of these programs (Clemson, Miami, FSU) are reportedly aggressively exploring conference realignment options. Another tactic could be ... get 8 programs to find other homes and thereby dissolve the ACC Conference.

Dan Patrick had stated that the SEC would be a take for Clemson / Miami / FSU / Va Tech .... if you add to that the BIG expansion taking programs with strong academics like UNC / UVA / Duke / Ga Tech ... you have your 8 programs and no more ACC Conference. The BIG becomes THE basketball conference as well.

Everyone wants to move. But no one wants to be the first mover because the legal implications for the first may not be the same for those that follow the first.

 

[Rickd]

Everyone wants to move. But no one wants to be the first mover because the legal implications for the first may not be the same for those that follow the first.

That's one of the issues ... and reason for several programs working together. Both conferences want to expand ... between football and academics there ARE programs in the ACC that are attractive to both conferences .... maybe enough to make a coordinated exit of 8.

 

[CaneFan79]

This, plus the ACC badly wanted its own network after the huge success of the Big 10 Network and SEC having success with their own. ESPN was the only network agreeing to give the ACC a network, but only with the ACC signing up for such a long deal. Terrible deal all the way around.

I can understand the ACC's desire to have its own cable network and I can see ESPN's requirement for it to be a long-term deal to cover the costs of starting up an entirely new channel. However, 20 years??? Plus, if you are going to have such a long deal, you don't include automatic peek-in periods like once every 5 or 10 years to see how the agreement compares to market? As long as the ACC is keeping its end of the bargain with playoff appearances, maintaining a healthy representation in the top 25, etc., make sure the payout follows suit or allow the ACC to look elsewhere.

Right now, the only way the ACC can negotiate a better deal is to expand, but who do they bring in (aside from ND) that moves the needle?

Yeah, but its not like the ACC leadership at the time is going to ever be accountable...Sycophant Media in August 2022:

https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Journal/Issues/2022/08/08/Champions/John-Swofford.aspx

You can imagine the author and Skipper laughing and drunk, with Skipper howling and saying "now put this line in: It was an exchange of value. John was anxious to have a network, and I was anxious for him to have one." Then busting out in laughter again

It's like an article stating this guy did a great job as Master of the Baltic, Adriatic, and Olympic

 

[CaneinBroward]

Yeah, but its not like the ACC leadership at the time is going to ever be accountable...Sycophant Media in August 2022:

https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Journal/Issues/2022/08/08/Champions/John-Swofford.aspx

You can imagine the author and Skipper laughing and drunk, with Skipper howling and saying "now put this line in: It was an exchange of value. John was anxious to have a network, and I was anxious for him to have one." Then busting out in laughter again

It's like an article stating this guy did a great job as Master of the Baltic, Adriatic, and OlympiView attachment 205015

When the ACC is poached in the next 2-3 years, ACC management will be held accountable.

On the other hand, who will hold the Canes accountable for playing 20 years of crappy football which helped contribute to the negative reputation of ACC football?

No doubt the ACC signed a crappy TV deal to get the ACC Network up and running, but let's not act like Miami has kept its end of the bargain by a long shot. The same could be said for FSU (except for about a 5 year period) and VT as well.

 

[trolldawg]

Greg Flugaur (@flugempire)

. Greg says SEC/ESPN will pick FSU over Miami in the end. B1G would add Miami. All theoretical bc it may be tough to orchestrate 8 votes to leave in a timely fashion. ESPN would need to be the silent hand that makes it happen. I would prefer SEC bc of proximity and doubt we like seeing Miami play 2-3x on road late October and into November.

 

[Tony4Canes]

 

[DamnLiesAndStatistics]

Why would Clemson and FSU sign off to that? Were they really concerned with preserving the ACC instead of using all the leverage they had at the time?

Not defending the deal at all, but keep in mind that the 2016 extension was just an extension of the deal made in 2012, prior to the FSU and Clemson runs. They didn't negotiate terms at that point

 

[dycane]

. Greg says SEC/ESPN will pick FSU over Miami in the end.

My belief, as well, although they are not foreclosing any options right now.

 

[Rellyrell]

This, plus the ACC badly wanted its own network after the huge success of the Big 10 Network and SEC having success with their own. ESPN was the only network agreeing to give the ACC a network, but only with the ACC signing up for such a long deal. Terrible deal all the way around.

I can understand the ACC's desire to have its own cable network and I can see ESPN's requirement for it to be a long-term deal to cover the costs of starting up an entirely new channel. However, 20 years??? Plus, if you are going to have such a long deal, you don't include automatic peek-in periods like once every 5 or 10 years to see how the agreement compares to market? As long as the ACC is keeping its end of the bargain with playoff appearances, maintaining a healthy representation in the top 25, etc., make sure the payout follows suit or allow the ACC to look elsewhere.

Right now, the only way the ACC can negotiate a better deal is to expand, but who do they bring in (aside from ND) that moves the needle?

Yes, u & @Shogungts r correct; HOWEVER, it still made zero sense to negotiate a 20 yr contract, when The SEC had a 15 yr deal w/ CBS, The Big XII had a 13 yr deal w/ Fox, The PAC-12 had a 12 yr deal w/ Fox/ESPN, and the B1G had a 7 yr deal w/ Fox/ESPN.

Y in thee fock, especially regarding the #’s, would the ACC agree to a 20 yr deal, a deal that was less distribution than the PAC-12? Security be damned, there’s literally no justification. Their peers all laid the foundation of media rights deals b4 this conference got in to the game; not only did they lay the foundation or template, The ACC was legit the only other conference to push on the SEC. Yet, these fools brokered a deal like we were a G5 conference. There’s zero rationale to justify this.