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Coaching & Development v. Star Whores

A lot people confuse tools with cures.

See I can go to Home Depot and buy the most expensive tools they have. But if I don’t know when and how to use a hammer or a wrench. Then the tools are worthless. Having the best tools doesn’t cure my inability to know how to use them.

Talented prospect are the same way. Let’s look at Ray Ray Armstrong, he was so touted coming in...and the coaches literally had no way of putting him in the best position to be great.

From a coaching and development standpoint we’ve been failing our players for 15 years.

Dead horse but it comes back to Blake and his inability to know what a qualified candidate looks like.
 
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I don't think you can deny that the overall stars and your class quality really matter.

You obviously have to develop them and have a good staff once they get on campus, but if you want to be a serious title contender, the first thing you need to do is average around a top 10 recruiting class.


I think you can simplify things and the numbers that come back don't lie:

These are the class rankings for this year's playoff teams from 2016-2019, the players that make up the majority of their roster:

LSU:
2
7
15
5
Roster average class ranking: 7

Ohio State:
4
2
2
14
Roster average class ranking: 5

Clemson:
11
16
7
10
Roster average class ranking: 11

Oklahoma:
16
8
9
6
Roster average class ranking: 9



• Every team in this year's playoffs averaged just about a top 10 class the 4 classes before this year.



Same thing done but for Last Year's Playoff Teams:


Notre Dame:
13
15
10
10
Roster average class ranking: 12

Alabama:
1
1
1
5
Roster average class ranking: 2

Oklahoma:
15
16
8
9
Roster average class ranking: 12

Clemson:
9
11
16
7
Roster average class ranking: 10

• Same thing here, every team's roster was largely comprised of an overall class ranking average around the top 10.


• Coaching matters and so does development, but you have to land the horses first.
 
Why you guys evevn bother? Manny is a know it all and Orgeron and dabo look for people smarter than them.
 
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The 2 most crucial positions are QB and OL. If you can make them perform, the rest falls in place. Manny replaced the 2 coaches at the only important spots. You dont even need a good QB, just a serviceable one that understands the system.

Bama, Clemson and LSU now figured out QB and OL and have played better than anyone due to the systems fitting those players they have. That is why you wont see those players thrive in Pros. No way would I draft Burrows or Tua in first round of draft.
 
WhatTheHell said:
I don't think you can deny that the overall stars and your class quality really matter.

You obviously have to develop them and have a good staff once they get on campus, but if you want to be a serious title contender, the first thing you need to do is average around a top 10 recruiting class.


I think you can simplify things and the numbers that come back don't lie:

These are the class rankings for this year's playoff teams from 2016-2019, the players that make up the majority of their roster:

LSU:
2
7
15
5
Roster average class ranking: 7

Ohio State:
4
2
2
14
Roster average class ranking: 5

Clemson:
11
16
7
10
Roster average class ranking: 11

Oklahoma:
16
8
9
6
Roster average class ranking: 9



• Every team in this year's playoffs averaged just about a top 10 class the 4 classes before this year.



Same thing done but for Last Year's Playoff Teams:


Notre Dame:
13
15
10
10
Roster average class ranking: 12

Alabama:
1
1
1
5
Roster average class ranking: 2

Oklahoma:
15
16
8
9
Roster average class ranking: 12

Clemson:
9
11
16
7
Roster average class ranking: 10

• Same thing here, every team's roster was largely comprised of an overall class ranking average around the top 10.


• Coaching matters and so does development, but you have to land the horses first.
Click to expand...

Miami’s 5 year rankings:

2016-22
2017-12
2018-8
2019-27
2020-17
 
I'll stick with being a star ***** with some bit of development. Bring me the savages and someone competent enough to body the coastal yearly

Most importantly bring me the evaluators and the closers
 
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WhatTheHell said:
I don't think you can deny that the overall stars and your class quality really matter.

You obviously have to develop them and have a good staff once they get on campus, but if you want to be a serious title contender, the first thing you need to do is average around a top 10 recruiting class.


I think you can simplify things and the numbers that come back don't lie:

These are the class rankings for this year's playoff teams from 2016-2019, the players that make up the majority of their roster:

LSU:
2
7
15
5
Roster average class ranking: 7

Ohio State:
4
2
2
14
Roster average class ranking: 5

Clemson:
11
16
7
10
Roster average class ranking: 11

Oklahoma:
16
8
9
6
Roster average class ranking: 9



• Every team in this year's playoffs averaged just about a top 10 class the 4 classes before this year.



Same thing done but for Last Year's Playoff Teams:


Notre Dame:
13
15
10
10
Roster average class ranking: 12

Alabama:
1
1
1
5
Roster average class ranking: 2

Oklahoma:
15
16
8
9
Roster average class ranking: 12

Clemson:
9
11
16
7
Roster average class ranking: 10

• Same thing here, every team's roster was largely comprised of an overall class ranking average around the top 10.


• Coaching matters and so does development, but you have to land the horses first.
Click to expand...

Gotta have the system in place first and Identify who fits that system.. your system should fit your recruiting base. It's not that hard we really get in our own way every time
 
Asking a serious question here though....doesn't LSU get super stars out of HS that bama OSU etc want? Not the fake offers the real offers. I'm assuming they land elite guys like Stingly Kelvin Joseph's of the world. I'm sure that linebackers last year who made our look slow mo and Jamal Adams were high ranking guys that everyone wanted.

Lol at Surtain going to bama
 
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BeastMode said:
Last night should actually give you hope. If Corch O who isn’t an elite coach by any stretch of the imagination can do it, just about anyone can. He surrounded himself with a top flight d-cord and top notch offensive minds. He roster is still pretty loaded with talent but what they did shows you don’t have to be Bama or Clemson to win this thing.


unfortunately our staff looks like a high school staff compared to his. End Thread
Click to expand...

i think we need to stop hating on Coach O. USC was a mess, and as an interim coach he went 6-2; SC decided to go Helton instead of him, and SC’s boosters were ****ed.

He went 6-2 as an interim at LSU
Then 9-4
Then 10-3
Now 15-0

Again, we’re associating Ole **** w Ed. He’s not the same guy
 
Dghustla said:
A lot people confuse tools with cures.

See I can go to Home Depot and buy the most expensive tools they have. But if I don’t know when and how to use a hammer or a wrench. Then the tools are worthless. Having the best tools doesn’t cure my inability to know how to use them.

Talented prospect are the same way. Let’s look at Ray Ray Armstrong, he was so touted coming in...and the coaches literally had no way of putting him in the best position to be great.

From a coaching and development standpoint we’ve been failing our players for 15 years.

Dead horse but it comes back to Blake and his inability to know what a qualified candidate looks like.
Click to expand...

Great analogy
 
Rellyrell said:
Read a posters comment about let’s see what Coach O does w/o Brady and Burrows. Lol.

Coach O learned from greats, and has rings as an assistant, and was voted top recruiter several times while at SC. We confuse Ole **** Coach O w him as a developer & coach. This was no accident; LSU has been trending up each year under him, and for good reason.

However, let’s debunk something real quick:
Stars matter, yes, but coaching & development matters so much more. The way LSU blew out the records books this yr, you would think they were dripped with blue chip after blue chip on O.

Their offensive starters really were a who’s what? of players:

QB: Joe Burrows - 2 star
RB: Clyde Edwards-Helaire - 3 star
FB: Tory Carter - 3 star (#3 ranked FB)
WR: Justin Jefferson - 2/3 star
WR: Terrace Marshall - 5 star
WR: Ja’Marr Chase - 4 star (15th ranked WR)
TE: Thad Moss - 3 star (transfer from NCSU)
OT: Saadhiq Charles - 3/4 star
OT: Austin Deculus - 4 star
RG: Damien Lewis - 3 star
LG: Adrian McGee - 3 star
OC: Lloyd Cushenberry - 3 star

Out of the 11 starters, 3.5 were considered blue chips. The others were just another guy per recruiting services.

Compare that to Miami:
QB: Jarren Williams - 4 star
RB: DeeJay Dallas - 4 star
FB: Realus George - 3 star (#1 ranked FB)
WR: Jeff Thomas - 4 star
WR: KJ Osborn - 2 star
WR: Mike Harley - 3/4 star
TE: Brevin Jordan - 4 star (#1 ranked TE)
OT: Zion Nelson - 3 star
OT: DJ Scaife - 4 star
OC: Corey Gaynor - 3 star
LG: Navaughn Donaldson - 4 star
RG: Jakai Clark - 3 star

Out of our 11 starters, 6.5 were considered blue chips. ****, if Reed could’ve held up his end, 7.5 would’ve been considered blue chips!

Either the recruiting services are **** poor for every player we’ve been recruiting here, or as I’ve been saying for years, our problem here at Miami is not talent, it’s player development and culture. While our top prize on the OL is now 6’6 365, LSU’s top prize on their OL is 6’7 322.

Fellas, I don’t want to beat a dead horse, but this is just a snippet of what has separated Miami we know today from yesterday and today’s college teams, our player development, our S&C, our program is in the dumps. It doesn’t matter who’s the OC, until we get elite player development, we’ll see the same results. LSU wasn’t more talented than Clemson, Coach O has surrounded himself w the best of the best from top to bottom.
Click to expand...
X 1000
 
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Stars matter, and LSU has recruited far better than Miami.

LSU has a better blue chip ratio than Miami, and LSU has more talent and better athletes than Miami.

OP is fake news.
 
Gatorhater said:
For some reason our players get worse with the coaching they get. mLook at our record after bye weeks. I believe it is horrible. Sometimes I think we would be better off taking the kids from HS and putting unis on them and bus them to the game without any coach touching them.
Click to expand...
With our coaching staffs over the past 10 years, you aren’t wrong
 
Dghustla said:
A lot people confuse tools with cures.

See I can go to Home Depot and buy the most expensive tools they have. But if I don’t know when and how to use a hammer or a wrench. Then the tools are worthless. Having the best tools doesn’t cure my inability to know how to use them.

Talented prospect are the same way. Let’s look at Ray Ray Armstrong, he was so touted coming in...and the coaches literally had no way of putting him in the best position to be great.

From a coaching and development standpoint we’ve been failing our players for 15 years.

Dead horse but it comes back to Blake and his inability to know what a qualified candidate looks like.
Click to expand...
*sigh* regarding Ray Ray. I knew after seeing him play so poorly in space that he would be a great LB because of how aggressive he was. He would have been an all American and the stupid staff that get paid millions didn’t see it.

Funny thing is in today’s NFL he would probably be a first round pick.
 
247sports.com

LSU vs. Clemson: Depth chart, stat pack and recruiting rankings

LSU moved to 14-0 and advanced to the College Football Playoff National Championship after a dominant, 63-28, victory over Oklahoma in the Chick-fil-A Peach Bowl.
247sports.com 247sports.com

According to this they had 7 blue chips on offense by your definition. Not to mention their defense is an embarrassment of riches.

They are great developers of talent, clearly, but to insinuate that they aren't stacked is just flat out wrong. You have to do both things very well to win at this level. We suck at both.
 
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