Coaching & Development v. Star Whores

Rellyrell

All-ACC
Joined
Dec 19, 2013
Messages
15,540
Read a posters comment about let’s see what Coach O does w/o Brady and Burrows. Lol.

Coach O learned from greats, and has rings as an assistant, and was voted top recruiter several times while at SC. We confuse Ole Piss Coach O w him as a developer & coach. This was no accident; LSU has been trending up each year under him, and for good reason.

However, let’s debunk something real quick:
Stars matter, yes, but coaching & development matters so much more. The way LSU blew out the records books this yr, you would think they were dripped with blue chip after blue chip on O.

Their offensive starters really were a who’s what? of players:

QB: Joe Burrows - 2 star
RB: Clyde Edwards-Helaire - 3 star
FB: Tory Carter - 3 star (#3 ranked FB)
WR: Justin Jefferson - 2/3 star
WR: Terrace Marshall - 5 star
WR: Ja’Marr Chase - 4 star (15th ranked WR)
TE: Thad Moss - 3 star (transfer from NCSU)
OT: Saadhiq Charles - 3/4 star
OT: Austin Deculus - 4 star
RG: Damien Lewis - 3 star
LG: Adrian McGee - 3 star
OC: Lloyd Cushenberry - 3 star

Out of the 11 starters, 3.5 were considered blue chips. The others were just another guy per recruiting services.

Compare that to Miami:
QB: Jarren Williams - 4 star
RB: DeeJay Dallas - 4 star
FB: Realus George - 3 star (#1 ranked FB)
WR: Jeff Thomas - 4 star
WR: KJ Osborn - 2 star
WR: Mike Harley - 3/4 star
TE: Brevin Jordan - 4 star (#1 ranked TE)
OT: Zion Nelson - 3 star
OT: DJ Scaife - 4 star
OC: Corey Gaynor - 3 star
LG: Navaughn Donaldson - 4 star
RG: Jakai Clark - 3 star

Out of our 11 starters, 6.5 were considered blue chips. Hell, if Reed could’ve held up his end, 7.5 would’ve been considered blue chips!

Either the recruiting services are piss poor for every player we’ve been recruiting here, or as I’ve been saying for years, our problem here at Miami is not talent, it’s player development and culture. While our top prize on the OL is now 6’6 365, LSU’s top prize on their OL is 6’7 322.

Fellas, I don’t want to beat a dead horse, but this is just a snippet of what has separated Miami we know today from yesterday and today’s college teams, our player development, our S&C, our program is in the dumps. It doesn’t matter who’s the OC, until we get elite player development, we’ll see the same results. LSU wasn’t more talented than Clemson, Coach O has surrounded himself w the best of the best from top to bottom.
 
Joined
Jul 13, 2014
Messages
5,011
As usual, things are not black or white. They lie in a gray area somewhere in between. Talent ABSOLUTELY matters...there's a reason the teams with the top blue chip ratios win every year. But it's not the ONLY factor. Coaching and development ABSOLUTELY matter.

Not bagging on Rell at all, just a lot of times this site (and life, really) looks at things in black and white. It's one thing or another. When in reality, way more often than not, it's a blend somewhere in the middle. This is no different. Stars matter. Coaching matters.
 

raytiller

5 STAR WB
Joined
May 6, 2019
Messages
654
Read a posters comment about let’s see what Coach O does w/o Brady and Burrows. Lol.

Coach O learned from greats, and has rings as an assistant, and was voted top recruiter several times while at SC. We confuse Ole Piss Coach O w him as a developer & coach. This was no accident; LSU has been trending up each year under him, and for good reason.

However, let’s debunk something real quick:
Stars matter, yes, but coaching & development matters so much more. The way LSU blew out the records books this yr, you would think they were dripped with blue chip after blue chip on O.

Their offensive starters really were a who’s what? of players:

QB: Joe Burrows - 2 star
RB: Clyde Edwards-Helaire - 3 star
FB: Tory Carter - 3 star (#3 ranked FB)
WR: Justin Jefferson - 2/3 star
WR: Terrace Marshall - 5 star
WR: Ja’Marr Chase - 4 star (15th ranked WR)
TE: Thad Moss - 3 star (transfer from NCSU)
OT: Saadhiq Charles - 3/4 star
OT: Austin Deculus - 4 star
RG: Damien Lewis - 3 star
LG: Adrian McGee - 3 star
OC: Lloyd Cushenberry - 3 star

Out of the 11 starters, 3.5 were considered blue chips. The others were just another guy per recruiting services.

Compare that to Miami:
QB: Jarren Williams - 4 star
RB: DeeJay Dallas - 4 star
FB: Realus George - 3 star (#1 ranked FB)
WR: Jeff Thomas - 4 star
WR: KJ Osborn - 2 star
WR: Mike Harley - 3/4 star
TE: Brevin Jordan - 4 star (#1 ranked TE)
OT: Zion Nelson - 3 star
OT: DJ Scaife - 4 star
OC: Corey Gaynor - 3 star
LG: Navaughn Donaldson - 4 star
RG: Jakai Clark - 3 star

Out of our 11 starters, 6.5 were considered blue chips. Hell, if Reed could’ve held up his end, 7.5 would’ve been considered blue chips!

Either the recruiting services are piss poor for every player we’ve been recruiting here, or as I’ve been saying for years, our problem here at Miami is not talent, it’s player development and culture. While our top prize on the OL is now 6’6 365, LSU’s top prize on their OL is 6’7 322.

Fellas, I don’t want to beat a dead horse, but this is just a snippet of what has separated Miami we know today from yesterday and today’s college teams, our player development, our S&C, our program is in the dumps. It doesn’t matter who’s the OC, until we get elite player development, we’ll see the same results. LSU wasn’t more talented than Clemson, Coach O has surrounded himself w the best of the best from top to bottom.
You hit it right on the head Rell. Same thing i was saying yesterday just looking at those teams in the playoffs like we are no where near them as far as a physical standpoint. Player development has been doo doo
 

raytiller

5 STAR WB
Joined
May 6, 2019
Messages
654
As usual, things are not black or white. They lie in a gray area somewhere in between. Talent ABSOLUTELY matters...there's a reason the teams with the top blue chip ratios win every year. But it's not the ONLY factor. Coaching and development ABSOLUTELY matter.

Not bagging on Rell at all, just a lot of times this site (and life, really) looks at things in black and white. It's one thing or another. When in reality, way more often than not, it's a blend somewhere in the middle. This is no different. Stars matter. Coaching matters.
Definitely and we suck in coaching and brining in high quality talent so when you mix below avg coaching x below avg talent you = 6-7/7-6
 

mossmadness

"Couldn't" Care Less.
Joined
Nov 3, 2011
Messages
3,650
LSU is 5th in 247’s Team Talent Calculator, which looks at how talented a team is based on the star rankings of its roster.

Give me a Top 5 ranked team based on stars, and I don’t care about the star ranking of the actual starters. Anybody starting for that team must be pretty good because he beat out a stud.

That’s not the same thing as having some 3* team, so you end up with 3* starters.
 

Empirical Cane

We are what we repeatedly do.
Joined
Sep 3, 2018
Messages
7,897
Read a posters comment about let’s see what Coach O does w/o Brady and Burrows. Lol.

Coach O learned from greats, and has rings as an assistant, and was voted top recruiter several times while at SC. We confuse Ole Piss Coach O w him as a developer & coach. This was no accident; LSU has been trending up each year under him, and for good reason.

However, let’s debunk something real quick:
Stars matter, yes, but coaching & development matters so much more. The way LSU blew out the records books this yr, you would think they were dripped with blue chip after blue chip on O.

Their offensive starters really were a who’s what? of players:

QB: Joe Burrows - 2 star
RB: Clyde Edwards-Helaire - 3 star
FB: Tory Carter - 3 star (#3 ranked FB)
WR: Justin Jefferson - 2/3 star
WR: Terrace Marshall - 5 star
WR: Ja’Marr Chase - 4 star (15th ranked WR)
TE: Thad Moss - 3 star (transfer from NCSU)
OT: Saadhiq Charles - 3/4 star
OT: Austin Deculus - 4 star
RG: Damien Lewis - 3 star
LG: Adrian McGee - 3 star
OC: Lloyd Cushenberry - 3 star

Out of the 11 starters, 3.5 were considered blue chips. The others were just another guy per recruiting services.

Compare that to Miami:
QB: Jarren Williams - 4 star
RB: DeeJay Dallas - 4 star
FB: Realus George - 3 star (#1 ranked FB)
WR: Jeff Thomas - 4 star
WR: KJ Osborn - 2 star
WR: Mike Harley - 3/4 star
TE: Brevin Jordan - 4 star (#1 ranked TE)
OT: Zion Nelson - 3 star
OT: DJ Scaife - 4 star
OC: Corey Gaynor - 3 star
LG: Navaughn Donaldson - 4 star
RG: Jakai Clark - 3 star

Out of our 11 starters, 6.5 were considered blue chips. Hell, if Reed could’ve held up his end, 7.5 would’ve been considered blue chips!

Either the recruiting services are piss poor for every player we’ve been recruiting here, or as I’ve been saying for years, our problem here at Miami is not talent, it’s player development and culture. While our top prize on the OL is now 6’6 365, LSU’s top prize on their OL is 6’7 322.

Fellas, I don’t want to beat a dead horse, but this is just a snippet of what has separated Miami we know today from yesterday and today’s college teams, our player development, our S&C, our program is in the dumps. It doesn’t matter who’s the OC, until we get elite player development, we’ll see the same results. LSU wasn’t more talented than Clemson, Coach O has surrounded himself w the best of the best from top to bottom.
👆👆👆👆 100%
 

DemCanesByke

Senior
Joined
Apr 15, 2018
Messages
2,712
Read a posters comment about let’s see what Coach O does w/o Brady and Burrows. Lol.

Coach O learned from greats, and has rings as an assistant, and was voted top recruiter several times while at SC. We confuse Ole Piss Coach O w him as a developer & coach. This was no accident; LSU has been trending up each year under him, and for good reason.

However, let’s debunk something real quick:
Stars matter, yes, but coaching & development matters so much more. The way LSU blew out the records books this yr, you would think they were dripped with blue chip after blue chip on O.

Their offensive starters really were a who’s what? of players:

QB: Joe Burrows - 2 star
RB: Clyde Edwards-Helaire - 3 star
FB: Tory Carter - 3 star (#3 ranked FB)
WR: Justin Jefferson - 2/3 star
WR: Terrace Marshall - 5 star
WR: Ja’Marr Chase - 4 star (15th ranked WR)
TE: Thad Moss - 3 star (transfer from NCSU)
OT: Saadhiq Charles - 3/4 star
OT: Austin Deculus - 4 star
RG: Damien Lewis - 3 star
LG: Adrian McGee - 3 star
OC: Lloyd Cushenberry - 3 star

Out of the 11 starters, 3.5 were considered blue chips. The others were just another guy per recruiting services.

Compare that to Miami:
QB: Jarren Williams - 4 star
RB: DeeJay Dallas - 4 star
FB: Realus George - 3 star (#1 ranked FB)
WR: Jeff Thomas - 4 star
WR: KJ Osborn - 2 star
WR: Mike Harley - 3/4 star
TE: Brevin Jordan - 4 star (#1 ranked TE)
OT: Zion Nelson - 3 star
OT: DJ Scaife - 4 star
OC: Corey Gaynor - 3 star
LG: Navaughn Donaldson - 4 star
RG: Jakai Clark - 3 star

Out of our 11 starters, 6.5 were considered blue chips. Hell, if Reed could’ve held up his end, 7.5 would’ve been considered blue chips!

Either the recruiting services are piss poor for every player we’ve been recruiting here, or as I’ve been saying for years, our problem here at Miami is not talent, it’s player development and culture. While our top prize on the OL is now 6’6 365, LSU’s top prize on their OL is 6’7 322.

Fellas, I don’t want to beat a dead horse, but this is just a snippet of what has separated Miami we know today from yesterday and today’s college teams, our player development, our S&C, our program is in the dumps. It doesn’t matter who’s the OC, until we get elite player development, we’ll see the same results. LSU wasn’t more talented than Clemson, Coach O has surrounded himself w the best of the best from top to bottom.
Our kids not working look at how developed they look even at WR. Pope has been here 2 years and looks like he doesnt even go to LA Fitness
 

blushrts

Sophomore
Joined
Nov 2, 2018
Messages
1,044
As usual, things are not black or white. They lie in a gray area somewhere in between. Talent ABSOLUTELY matters...there's a reason the teams with the top blue chip ratios win every year. But it's not the ONLY factor. Coaching and development ABSOLUTELY matter.

Not bagging on Rell at all, just a lot of times this site (and life, really) looks at things in black and white. It's one thing or another. When in reality, way more often than not, it's a blend somewhere in the middle. This is no different. Stars matter. Coaching matters.
And recruiting kids with the right character to come in and work hard also matters some. I'm sure Ed Reed got good coaching, but something burned in him to want it more than everyone else.
 

craval85

ATLien
Banned
Joined
Dec 3, 2017
Messages
1,243
Read a posters comment about let’s see what Coach O does w/o Brady and Burrows. Lol.

Coach O learned from greats, and has rings as an assistant, and was voted top recruiter several times while at SC. We confuse Ole Piss Coach O w him as a developer & coach. This was no accident; LSU has been trending up each year under him, and for good reason.

However, let’s debunk something real quick:
Stars matter, yes, but coaching & development matters so much more. The way LSU blew out the records books this yr, you would think they were dripped with blue chip after blue chip on O.

Their offensive starters really were a who’s what? of players:

QB: Joe Burrows - 2 star
RB: Clyde Edwards-Helaire - 3 star
FB: Tory Carter - 3 star (#3 ranked FB)
WR: Justin Jefferson - 2/3 star
WR: Terrace Marshall - 5 star
WR: Ja’Marr Chase - 4 star (15th ranked WR)
TE: Thad Moss - 3 star (transfer from NCSU)
OT: Saadhiq Charles - 3/4 star
OT: Austin Deculus - 4 star
RG: Damien Lewis - 3 star
LG: Adrian McGee - 3 star
OC: Lloyd Cushenberry - 3 star

Out of the 11 starters, 3.5 were considered blue chips. The others were just another guy per recruiting services.

Compare that to Miami:
QB: Jarren Williams - 4 star
RB: DeeJay Dallas - 4 star
FB: Realus George - 3 star (#1 ranked FB)
WR: Jeff Thomas - 4 star
WR: KJ Osborn - 2 star
WR: Mike Harley - 3/4 star
TE: Brevin Jordan - 4 star (#1 ranked TE)
OT: Zion Nelson - 3 star
OT: DJ Scaife - 4 star
OC: Corey Gaynor - 3 star
LG: Navaughn Donaldson - 4 star
RG: Jakai Clark - 3 star

Out of our 11 starters, 6.5 were considered blue chips. Hell, if Reed could’ve held up his end, 7.5 would’ve been considered blue chips!

Either the recruiting services are piss poor for every player we’ve been recruiting here, or as I’ve been saying for years, our problem here at Miami is not talent, it’s player development and culture. While our top prize on the OL is now 6’6 365, LSU’s top prize on their OL is 6’7 322.

Fellas, I don’t want to beat a dead horse, but this is just a snippet of what has separated Miami we know today from yesterday and today’s college teams, our player development, our S&C, our program is in the dumps. It doesn’t matter who’s the OC, until we get elite player development, we’ll see the same results. LSU wasn’t more talented than Clemson, Coach O has surrounded himself w the best of the best from top to bottom.
@OriginalGatorHater
 

We the Boss

vapist-crypto trash-humanist
Joined
Oct 5, 2014
Messages
2,804
Read a posters comment about let’s see what Coach O does w/o Brady and Burrows. Lol.

Coach O learned from greats, and has rings as an assistant, and was voted top recruiter several times while at SC. We confuse Ole Piss Coach O w him as a developer & coach. This was no accident; LSU has been trending up each year under him, and for good reason.

However, let’s debunk something real quick:
Stars matter, yes, but coaching & development matters so much more. The way LSU blew out the records books this yr, you would think they were dripped with blue chip after blue chip on O.

Their offensive starters really were a who’s what? of players:

QB: Joe Burrows - 2 star
RB: Clyde Edwards-Helaire - 3 star
FB: Tory Carter - 3 star (#3 ranked FB)
WR: Justin Jefferson - 2/3 star
WR: Terrace Marshall - 5 star
WR: Ja’Marr Chase - 4 star (15th ranked WR)
TE: Thad Moss - 3 star (transfer from NCSU)
OT: Saadhiq Charles - 3/4 star
OT: Austin Deculus - 4 star
RG: Damien Lewis - 3 star
LG: Adrian McGee - 3 star
OC: Lloyd Cushenberry - 3 star

Out of the 11 starters, 3.5 were considered blue chips. The others were just another guy per recruiting services.

Compare that to Miami:
QB: Jarren Williams - 4 star
RB: DeeJay Dallas - 4 star
FB: Realus George - 3 star (#1 ranked FB)
WR: Jeff Thomas - 4 star
WR: KJ Osborn - 2 star
WR: Mike Harley - 3/4 star
TE: Brevin Jordan - 4 star (#1 ranked TE)
OT: Zion Nelson - 3 star
OT: DJ Scaife - 4 star
OC: Corey Gaynor - 3 star
LG: Navaughn Donaldson - 4 star
RG: Jakai Clark - 3 star

Out of our 11 starters, 6.5 were considered blue chips. Hell, if Reed could’ve held up his end, 7.5 would’ve been considered blue chips!

Either the recruiting services are piss poor for every player we’ve been recruiting here, or as I’ve been saying for years, our problem here at Miami is not talent, it’s player development and culture. While our top prize on the OL is now 6’6 365, LSU’s top prize on their OL is 6’7 322.

Fellas, I don’t want to beat a dead horse, but this is just a snippet of what has separated Miami we know today from yesterday and today’s college teams, our player development, our S&C, our program is in the dumps. It doesn’t matter who’s the OC, until we get elite player development, we’ll see the same results. LSU wasn’t more talented than Clemson, Coach O has surrounded himself w the best of the best from top to bottom.
Talent identification and development is paramount. Our guys don’t develop. I’m with you 100 percent.
On big part is our guys who do develop walk after year 3.

I would argue that LSU was more talented this year but I don’t use talent to mean stars I mean who’s players produced more all season long. The LSU WR Corp did great all season making plays. That’s physical skill, shaped by coaching and effort.

Clemson has all of the same positives as LSU but they lost too much in the trenches and they didn’t have the WR horses to keep up in a shoot out. They will be back next year barring some major **** up.
 
Joined
Jul 13, 2014
Messages
5,011
And recruiting kids with the right character to come in and work hard also matters some. I'm sure Ed Reed got good coaching, but something burned in him to want it more than everyone else.
It's several factors. It's just simply not talent, or coaching, or character. You need all the ingredients. We all saw what archaic offense did for LSU last year...this is the same team, but last year they were average, this year they're great. So, it's all Joe Brady, right? No, of course not. He was a HUGE piece of the puzzle, but if Joe Brady was named the passing game coordinator for Texas Tech or Arizona last year instead of LSU, are they winning a national championship this year? Of course not. You need the horses as well.

Gray area. Not white or black. You need a coach who can scheme up his talent intelligently and maximize their abilities, you need coaches who can develop kids mentally, in the weight room, and on the field, and you need high end talent to beat other highly talented teams. LSU got all that this year, and Brady was the final piece. But he's not doing what he did without one of the most talented teams in the country.
 
Joined
Dec 12, 2012
Messages
5,020
But notice all the players you listed were offensive players.

You don't have to be a 5* to play offense...offense is rote, you know what the snap count is, you know what the play is.

I'd like to see what average * rating is for their defensive players...
 

We the Boss

vapist-crypto trash-humanist
Joined
Oct 5, 2014
Messages
2,804
Read a posters comment about let’s see what Coach O does w/o Brady and Burrows. Lol.

Coach O learned from greats, and has rings as an assistant, and was voted top recruiter several times while at SC. We confuse Ole Piss Coach O w him as a developer & coach. This was no accident; LSU has been trending up each year under him, and for good reason.

However, let’s debunk something real quick:
Stars matter, yes, but coaching & development matters so much more. The way LSU blew out the records books this yr, you would think they were dripped with blue chip after blue chip on O.

Their offensive starters really were a who’s what? of players:

QB: Joe Burrows - 2 star
RB: Clyde Edwards-Helaire - 3 star
FB: Tory Carter - 3 star (#3 ranked FB)
WR: Justin Jefferson - 2/3 star
WR: Terrace Marshall - 5 star
WR: Ja’Marr Chase - 4 star (15th ranked WR)
TE: Thad Moss - 3 star (transfer from NCSU)
OT: Saadhiq Charles - 3/4 star
OT: Austin Deculus - 4 star
RG: Damien Lewis - 3 star
LG: Adrian McGee - 3 star
OC: Lloyd Cushenberry - 3 star

Out of the 11 starters, 3.5 were considered blue chips. The others were just another guy per recruiting services.

Compare that to Miami:
QB: Jarren Williams - 4 star
RB: DeeJay Dallas - 4 star
FB: Realus George - 3 star (#1 ranked FB)
WR: Jeff Thomas - 4 star
WR: KJ Osborn - 2 star
WR: Mike Harley - 3/4 star
TE: Brevin Jordan - 4 star (#1 ranked TE)
OT: Zion Nelson - 3 star
OT: DJ Scaife - 4 star
OC: Corey Gaynor - 3 star
LG: Navaughn Donaldson - 4 star
RG: Jakai Clark - 3 star

Out of our 11 starters, 6.5 were considered blue chips. Hell, if Reed could’ve held up his end, 7.5 would’ve been considered blue chips!

Either the recruiting services are piss poor for every player we’ve been recruiting here, or as I’ve been saying for years, our problem here at Miami is not talent, it’s player development and culture. While our top prize on the OL is now 6’6 365, LSU’s top prize on their OL is 6’7 322.

Fellas, I don’t want to beat a dead horse, but this is just a snippet of what has separated Miami we know today from yesterday and today’s college teams, our player development, our S&C, our program is in the dumps. It doesn’t matter who’s the OC, until we get elite player development, we’ll see the same results. LSU wasn’t more talented than Clemson, Coach O has surrounded himself w the best of the best from top to bottom.
We need to get the roffermetrics on these guys.
@Lance Roffers
 

We the Boss

vapist-crypto trash-humanist
Joined
Oct 5, 2014
Messages
2,804
Gimme a well coached 3 star over poorly coached 4 star. Hell, I’ll take that elite coached 3 over a poorly coached 5.

Golden proved that. Manny too.
*Give me a well coached 3 star who tests in the 90th percentile. #roffermetrics
 
Top