Chop Block call, ACC is so stupid

[Chuckles]

Without being able to stop the action what I saw is an attempted block with a shoulder to the chest. Contact occurred with the defenders arms and never below the waist. The defender also used his left arm to avoid the block and appears to jump over.

In my view it was poor technique, a post (seal) block would have been better. Hard to say if that was the intent. If it was it failed because the over enthusiastic blocker launched at the tackler.

Can't say what the official thinks he saw.

 

[HurricaneVision]

From the HurricaneVision post:

I have absolutely read and memorized the rule 9-1-6 and this is not a penalty. He is blocking the defender between 10 & 2, they’ve done away with the designated area that I previously wrote about (this is the first year). It has been replaced with this language: “all players after the ball has left the tackle box, are allowed to block below the waist only if the force of the initial contact is directed from the front. “From the front” is understood to mean within the clock-face region between “10 o’clock and 2 o’clock forward of the player being blocked.” Comments: Simplifies and clarifies the rule. Note that the “low-blocking zone” is no longer defined, and everything is in reference to the tackle box. Also clarifies the rule regarding the crackback block.” That is absolutely within 10 & 2 of the person being blocked. This official should be disciplined.

I'm not sure where this was pulled from but this is not correct in a few different aspects. This is not the first year they've done away with the "designated area" (Tackle box?). This is an "off" year for rule changes. Only rules regarding safety and clarifications to rules can be added in off years. The Block Below Waist rule did not change from 2016 to 2017.

Regarding the play specifically. It is ILLEGAL. Correct that it was 10-2 but what makes it illegal is because the block is back towards the original position of the ball (where it was snapped from / middle of the field) before the ball carrier was past the LOS. Before the ball passes the LOS, restricted players (players outside tackle box) can't block low from the outside - in. It can only be from the inside-out.

monkey1371's play from twitter shows a LEGAL block because it is from the inside-out, before the ball crosses the LOS. Once ball crosses the LOS, everything is legal as long as the block is 10-2

Here is the press release.

https://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/2016PRMFB_NCAA_Football_Rules_Changes_Final_20160418.pdf

Here is the rest of the rule I posted above.

3. Players not covered in paragraph 1 (above) may not block below the waist toward the
line through the original position of the ball at the snap until the ball carrier is clearly
beyond the neutral zone.
4. Once the ball has left the tackle box a player may not block below the waist toward
his own end line.”

I think it's forward, but I can see someone saying it's inside-out. To me, Mullins is in front of a defender (even if his body is sideways) running towards the LOS and therefore is now in front of him, even if he came from outside originally. That might be interpreted differently by some.

 

[UMAlum21]

"9. Blocking Below the Waist (Rule 9-1-6) FR-89
Changes to paragraph a: (New language is in bold italics)
“a. Team A prior to a change of team possession:
1. The following Team A players may legally block below the waist inside the tackle
box until they leave the tackle box or until the ball has left the tackle box: (a) players on
the line of scrimmage completely inside the tackle box and (b) stationary backs who are
at least partially inside the tackle box and at least partially inside the frame of the body of
the second lineman from the snapper.
3
2. Except as in paragraph 3 (below), players not covered in paragraph 1 (above) while
the ball is still in the tackle box, and all players after the ball has left the tackle box, are
allowed to block below the waist only if the force of the initial contact is directed from
the front. “From the front” is understood to mean within the clock-face region between
“10 o’clock and 2 o’clock” forward of the player being blocked.
3. Players not covered in paragraph 1 (above) may not block below the waist toward the
line through the original position of the ball at the snap until the ball carrier is clearly
beyond the neutral zone.
4. Once the ball has left the tackle box a player may not block below the waist toward
his own end line.”"


Upon reading the rule it was illegal based on paragraph 3, which expressly excludes players outside the tackle box from blocking below the waist until the ball has passed the LOS. Paragraph 2 which discusses blocking between 10-2, expressly yields to paragraph 2 in its language. Had the ball been past the line of scrimmage the block would have been legal. I've been complaining about the call for 4 days, but it was correct.

Saying that block was toward the LOS is an incredibly loose interpretation from my perspective. The LOS is to his 4 o clock, he's not even blocking parallel to it let alone facing it. The ref made an extremely poor interpretation of the rule, not to mention the flag came a full 5 seconds after he block in questioned occurred (this is not a hyperbole, I was there and watched it happen). Just gives validity to the fact that there ref and crew butchered a huge call in a huge spot. It had a negligible impact on the outcome as clearly the better team won, but that doesn't excuse the poor call. It's inexcusable for their to have been no discipline for the crew and acknowledgement the call was blown. But then again, there was also silence from them against FSU when Jackson and RJ combined for what should have been a clear as day, game changing strip and score in the fourth quarter, and that wasn't even reviewed.

 

[CaneFan79]

So ruining a players knees is okay on one part of the field, but not another? NCAA is (again) a joke.

 

[tcgrad1014]

 

[DrewZ2]

From the HurricaneVision post:

I have absolutely read and memorized the rule 9-1-6 and this is not a penalty. He is blocking the defender between 10 & 2, they’ve done away with the designated area that I previously wrote about (this is the first year). It has been replaced with this language: “all players after the ball has left the tackle box, are allowed to block below the waist only if the force of the initial contact is directed from the front. “From the front” is understood to mean within the clock-face region between “10 o’clock and 2 o’clock forward of the player being blocked.” Comments: Simplifies and clarifies the rule. Note that the “low-blocking zone” is no longer defined, and everything is in reference to the tackle box. Also clarifies the rule regarding the crackback block.” That is absolutely within 10 & 2 of the person being blocked. This official should be disciplined.

I'm not sure where this was pulled from but this is not correct in a few different aspects. This is not the first year they've done away with the "designated area" (Tackle box?). This is an "off" year for rule changes. Only rules regarding safety and clarifications to rules can be added in off years. The Block Below Waist rule did not change from 2016 to 2017.

Regarding the play specifically. It is ILLEGAL. Correct that it was 10-2 but what makes it illegal is because the block is back towards the original position of the ball (where it was snapped from / middle of the field) before the ball carrier was past the LOS. Before the ball passes the LOS, restricted players (players outside tackle box) can't block low from the outside - in. It can only be from the inside-out.

monkey1371's play from twitter shows a LEGAL block because it is from the inside-out, before the ball crosses the LOS. Once ball crosses the LOS, everything is legal as long as the block is 10-2

Here is the press release.

https://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/2016PRMFB_NCAA_Football_Rules_Changes_Final_20160418.pdf

Here is the rest of the rule I posted above.

3. Players not covered in paragraph 1 (above) may not block below the waist toward the
line through the original position of the ball at the snap until the ball carrier is clearly
beyond the neutral zone.
4. Once the ball has left the tackle box a player may not block below the waist toward
his own end line.”

I think it's forward, but I can see someone saying it's inside-out. To me, Mullins is in front of a defender (even if his body is sideways) running towards the LOS and therefore is now in front of him, even if he came from outside originally. That might be interpreted differently by some.

What #3 is saying is imagine a line that goes North-South through the football before the center snaps it (from end zone to end zone). That line is considered "the original position of the ball". Now, any block by a restricted player which you could draw an arrow from their direction of force, that intersects with the "original position of the ball" is illegal until the ball carrier crosses the LOS.

Because Mullins block goes back and his force would intersect with that line going through the middle of the field, it is considered to be back towards the original position of the ball, and therefore illegal.

I agree Mullins is in front of the defender. The block is 10-2 without question, but his force is going back inside, which is the issue. This is the interpretation/ruling pushed down by the NCAA. They've published videos internally about what is, and what is not a Block Below the Waist foul.

In the near future I would not be surprised to see BBW eliminated from the game. There are already some in the rules committee pushing for this.

 

[caneinpsl]

"9. Blocking Below the Waist (Rule 9-1-6) FR-89
Changes to paragraph a: (New language is in bold italics)
“a. Team A prior to a change of team possession:
1. The following Team A players may legally block below the waist inside the tackle
box until they leave the tackle box or until the ball has left the tackle box: (a) players on
the line of scrimmage completely inside the tackle box and (b) stationary backs who are
at least partially inside the tackle box and at least partially inside the frame of the body of
the second lineman from the snapper.
3
2. Except as in paragraph 3 (below), players not covered in paragraph 1 (above) while
the ball is still in the tackle box, and all players after the ball has left the tackle box, are
allowed to block below the waist only if the force of the initial contact is directed from
the front. “From the front” is understood to mean within the clock-face region between
“10 o’clock and 2 o’clock” forward of the player being blocked.
3. Players not covered in paragraph 1 (above) may not block below the waist toward the
line through the original position of the ball at the snap until the ball carrier is clearly
beyond the neutral zone.
4. Once the ball has left the tackle box a player may not block below the waist toward
his own end line.”"


Upon reading the rule it was illegal based on paragraph 3, which expressly excludes players outside the tackle box from blocking below the waist until the ball has passed the LOS. Paragraph 2 which discusses blocking between 10-2, expressly yields to paragraph 2 in its language. Had the ball been past the line of scrimmage the block would have been legal. I've been complaining about the call for 4 days, but it was correct.

Saying that block was toward the LOS is an incredibly loose interpretation from my perspective. The LOS is to his 4 o clock, he's not even blocking parallel to it let alone facing it. The ref made an extremely poor interpretation of the rule, not to mention the flag came a full 5 seconds after he block in questioned occurred (this is not a hyperbole, I was there and watched it happen). Just gives validity to the fact that there ref and crew butchered a huge call in a huge spot. It had a negligible impact on the outcome as clearly the better team won, but that doesn't excuse the poor call. It's inexcusable for their to have been no discipline for the crew and acknowledgement the call was blown. But then again, there was also silence from them against FSU when Jackson and RJ combined for what should have been a clear as day, game changing strip and score in the fourth quarter, and that wasn't even reviewed.

It's not saying a block towards the line of scrimmage. It's saying a block facing towards the middle of the field, i.e. the original position of the ball at the snap. The reference as to the LOS is simply saying you can block below the waist only AFTER the ball has passed the LOS. I agree with [MENTION=9161]CaneFan79[/MENTION] . The NCAA is a joke and this rule is a great example of that. They have players picking and choosing when to be dirty. How about just protect them by outlawing all blocks clearly targeted below the waist?

 

[Drjohngreen]

From the HurricaneVision post:

I have absolutely read and memorized the rule 9-1-6 and this is not a penalty. He is blocking the defender between 10 & 2, they’ve done away with the designated area that I previously wrote about (this is the first year). It has been replaced with this language: “all players after the ball has left the tackle box, are allowed to block below the waist only if the force of the initial contact is directed from the front. “From the front” is understood to mean within the clock-face region between “10 o’clock and 2 o’clock forward of the player being blocked.” Comments: Simplifies and clarifies the rule. Note that the “low-blocking zone” is no longer defined, and everything is in reference to the tackle box. Also clarifies the rule regarding the crackback block.” That is absolutely within 10 & 2 of the person being blocked. This official should be disciplined.

I'm not sure where this was pulled from but this is not correct in a few different aspects. This is not the first year they've done away with the "designated area" (Tackle box?). This is an "off" year for rule changes. Only rules regarding safety and clarifications to rules can be added in off years. The Block Below Waist rule did not change from 2016 to 2017.

Regarding the play specifically. It is ILLEGAL. Correct that it was 10-2 but what makes it illegal is because the block is back towards the original position of the ball (where it was snapped from / middle of the field) before the ball carrier was past the LOS. Before the ball passes the LOS, restricted players (players outside tackle box) can't block low from the outside - in. It can only be from the inside-out.

monkey1371's play from twitter shows a LEGAL block because it is from the inside-out, before the ball crosses the LOS. Once ball crosses the LOS, everything is legal as long as the block is 10-2

Thank you. I never came here to start an argument - just discuss but I temporarily got dragged into the name-calling and for that, I apologize. Congratulations on a great win in a very exciting game. Good luck the rest of the year. Clemson is apparently beatable this year.

 

[cf3000]

From the HurricaneVision post:

I have absolutely read and memorized the rule 9-1-6 and this is not a penalty. He is blocking the defender between 10 & 2, they’ve done away with the designated area that I previously wrote about (this is the first year). It has been replaced with this language: “all players after the ball has left the tackle box, are allowed to block below the waist only if the force of the initial contact is directed from the front. “From the front” is understood to mean within the clock-face region between “10 o’clock and 2 o’clock forward of the player being blocked.” Comments: Simplifies and clarifies the rule. Note that the “low-blocking zone” is no longer defined, and everything is in reference to the tackle box. Also clarifies the rule regarding the crackback block.” That is absolutely within 10 & 2 of the person being blocked. This official should be disciplined.

I'm not sure where this was pulled from but this is not correct in a few different aspects. This is not the first year they've done away with the "designated area" (Tackle box?). This is an "off" year for rule changes. Only rules regarding safety and clarifications to rules can be added in off years. The Block Below Waist rule did not change from 2016 to 2017.

Regarding the play specifically. It is ILLEGAL. Correct that it was 10-2 but what makes it illegal is because the block is back towards the original position of the ball (where it was snapped from / middle of the field) before the ball carrier was past the LOS. Before the ball passes the LOS, restricted players (players outside tackle box) can't block low from the outside - in. It can only be from the inside-out.

monkey1371's play from twitter shows a LEGAL block because it is from the inside-out, before the ball crosses the LOS. Once ball crosses the LOS, everything is legal as long as the block is 10-2

Here is the press release.

https://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/2016PRMFB_NCAA_Football_Rules_Changes_Final_20160418.pdf

Here is the rest of the rule I posted above.

3. Players not covered in paragraph 1 (above) may not block below the waist toward the
line through the original position of the ball at the snap until the ball carrier is clearly
beyond the neutral zone.
4. Once the ball has left the tackle box a player may not block below the waist toward
his own end line.”

I think it's forward, but I can see someone saying it's inside-out. To me, Mullins is in front of a defender (even if his body is sideways) running towards the LOS and therefore is now in front of him, even if he came from outside originally. That might be interpreted differently by some.

What #3 is saying is imagine a line that goes North-South through the football before the center snaps it (from end zone to end zone). That line is considered "the original position of the ball". Now, any block by a restricted player which you could draw an arrow from their direction of force, that intersects with the "original position of the ball" is illegal until the ball carrier crosses the LOS.

Because Mullins block goes back and his force would intersect with that line going through the middle of the field, it is considered to be back towards the original position of the ball, and therefore illegal.

I agree Mullins is in front of the defender. The block is 10-2 without question, but his force is going back inside, which is the issue. This is the interpretation/ruling pushed down by the NCAA. They've published videos internally about what is, and what is not a Block Below the Waist foul.

In the near future I would not be surprised to see BBW eliminated from the game. There are already some in the rules committee pushing for this.

Has pornhub been alerted?

 

[monkey1371]

Seems like the play was no different than this one.....not called.

[video]https://twitter.com/twitter/statuses/919397210072276993[/video]

It's actually a lot different. The dude who is making the argument that is was a penalty may be a GT fan/Troll, but that doesn't mean he is wrong.

What makes GT's legal is as he says, the original alignment of the player and the fact he is block "out" away from the ball placement. It is against the runs to go below the waist when you are originally lined up outside the tackle box blocking back "in" towards the position of the ball.

Ask yourself this, DM84 made the block, up high, a couple of times in that drive. He changed his technique and got flagged.

For the poster who asked with the screen shot of Berrios attempting to cut his guy on the langham bubble. That one is an easy one, BB was cutting the guy who was lined up directly over him, albeit 10-12 yards away.

Thank you for the explanation....appreciate the knowledge.

 

[Fawk_U Haters]

Seems like the play was no different than this one.....not called.

[video]https://twitter.com/twitter/statuses/919397210072276993[/video]

It's actually a lot different. The dude who is making the argument that is was a penalty may be a GT fan/Troll, but that doesn't mean he is wrong.

What makes GT's legal is as he says, the original alignment of the player and the fact he is block "out" away from the ball placement. It is against the runs to go below the waist when you are originally lined up outside the tackle box blocking back "in" towards the position of the ball.

Ask yourself this, DM84 made the block, up high, a couple of times in that drive. He changed his technique and got flagged.

For the poster who asked with the screen shot of Berrios attempting to cut his guy on the langham bubble. That one is an easy one, BB was cutting the guy who was lined up directly over him, albeit 10-12 yards away.

Thank you for the explanation....appreciate the knowledge.

No worries. I can't stand the fact that the refs were right either haha. Good thing is i bet we won't do that again.

BTW loved the post of the graph about 3rd and 7th round money. That was a good thread filled with good knowledge in there.