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Can we try and flip Brock Vandagriff?

Number1CanesFan said:
That's my whole point on Vandagriff. You're just regurgitating what I said about UGA and applying it to Miami. So, why would he flip from UGA in the 1st place. Everyone's ignoring that point. There's no reason for him to even consider Miami.
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No reason?

The fact that Manny took a grad-transfer QB is a reflection of how he feels about Perry/Martell, and the not-yet-readiness of Matocha-Van Dyke.

The fact that Kirby took TWO transfer QBs (one with multiple years of eligibility) is a reflection of how he feels about his quarterback room.

And that's beyond just the eligibility issue.

The transfer QB guys Georgia took - one is a former starter for an ACC team (1 year rental), one is a former starter for a Pac 12 team (multi-year rental).

The transfer QB guys Miami took - last year we took a kid who didn't start for Ohio Taint and still doesn't start for Miami (multi-year rental), this year we took a kid who came from a non-P5 program (1-year rental, and don't get me wrong, I really like King).

So then you look at what is left - Georgia has 2019 4-star (Mathis) and a 2020 4-star (Beck). Miami has a 2019 2-star (Matocha) and a 2020 4-star (Van Dyke). So there is more "talent" ahead of Vandagriff in Georgia. Maybe not a huge amount, but still.

And finally, to circle back around to my comment about how each coach feels about the QB room...Miami has taken 2 transfer QBs out of well-known desperation surrounding the play of Williams and Perry. Our only other "real" option is one 4-star QB. Georgia, on the hand, has taken 2 transfer QBs IN THE SAME CYCLE, even though they have a senior QB on the roster (not saying he's a world-beater, but he's more likely to throw passes than Martell is) and TWO 4-star QBs on the roster.

So, yeah, the comparison between Miami and Georgia is NOT identical for a kid like Vandagriff. And maybe he DOES want to stay at Georgia, and if so, more power to him. But the original poster asked if we could TRY to recruit Vandagriff. We should shoot our shot.
 
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CaneThang2020 said:
We put a Top 30 or better offensive product on the field in 2020, and we will just about have our pick of 2021 QBs....committed or uncommitted.
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You're saying every kid will just be begging to flip from their commitment late in the season just before NSD. NO. That's not going to happen. Most kids are locked into their commitment by then. Especially QBs. You will get a few because their OC and/or HC left, or multiple QB committed to the same school.
 
TheOriginalCane said:
No reason?

The fact that Manny took a grad-transfer QB is a reflection of how he feels about Perry/Martell, and the not-yet-readiness of Matocha-Van Dyke.

The fact that Kirby took TWO transfer QBs (one with multiple years of eligibility) is a reflection of how he feels about his quarterback room.

And that's beyond just the eligibility issue.

The transfer QB guys Georgia took - one is a former starter for an ACC team (1 year rental), one is a former starter for a Pac 12 team (multi-year rental).

The transfer QB guys Miami took - last year we took a kid who didn't start for Ohio Taint and still doesn't start for Miami (multi-year rental), this year we took a kid who came from a non-P5 program (1-year rental, and don't get me wrong, I really like King).

So then you look at what is left - Georgia has 2019 4-star (Mathis) and a 2020 4-star (Beck). Miami has a 2019 2-star (Matocha) and a 2020 4-star (Van Dyke). So there is more "talent" ahead of Vandagriff in Georgia. Maybe not a huge amount, but still.

And finally, to circle back around to my comment about how each coach feels about the QB room...Miami has taken 2 transfer QBs out of well-known desperation surrounding the play of Williams and Perry. Our only other "real" option is one 4-star QB. Georgia, on the hand, has taken 2 transfer QBs IN THE SAME CYCLE, even though they have a senior QB on the roster (not saying he's a world-beater, but he's more likely to throw passes than Martell is) and TWO 4-star QBs on the roster.

So, yeah, the comparison between Miami and Georgia is NOT identical for a kid like Vandagriff. And maybe he DOES want to stay at Georgia, and if so, more power to him. But the original poster asked if we could TRY to recruit Vandagriff. We should shoot our shot.
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Trying to flip him is a waste of time. You're saying to him, don't stay there and compete on a team that has a legit shot at an SEC title and a CFP appearance. Come here instead because it will be easier for you. You're trying to rationalize coming to Miami because the competition will be weaker.

With that rationale, he should go to a school like Rutgers where he could start from day 1 with zero true competition. Makes no sense for an elite QB when you look at it in black and white.

Why does Geogia, Alabama, Clemson, Ohio State, etc keep staking top talent at all positions? First because they're winning. Secondly, elite players want and thrive from competition.

Your argument contradicts how Miami built championship teams. Elite players came here for the competition, they didn't run from it.
 
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CanesNY26 said:
Personally I love this take. His skillset fits perfectly with Lashlee’s offense, but he’s going to have a lot of teams trying to flip him now so the competition is going to be pretty stiff.

He’d be a HUGE get, but we likely won’t have a chance with him until the season starts and he sees the offense perform.
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https://247sports.com/college/georg...-transfer-Georgia-Brock-Vandagriff-147608772/

Looks like the bag is non-refundable for right now. Might be a transfer situation down the road.
 
Number1CanesFan said:
You're saying every kid will just be begging to flip from their commitment late in the season just before NSD. NO. That's not going to happen. Most kids are locked into their commitment by then. Especially QBs. You will get a few because their OC and/or HC left, or multiple QB committed to the same school.
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Idk, I stand by my thought that, to your point, while most QBs generally stay with their commitment, 1) this isn't the usual year per COVID, 2) Miami is one of the very few programs in the country, that if we get hot, we can turn ALOT of heads. Look no further than what happened with Jarren Williams (a top 150 player) during our run in 2017. IMO if we have a big year offensively we can flip a guy like Nussmeier or Jake Garcia or Dematrius Davis. Just my two cents though.
 
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CanesNY26 said:
My question is considering how much they spend getting 5 stars at what point does Kirby Smart end up on the hot seat for not winning a national championship?
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Little known fact if you didn't live in Austin...Mack Brown was starting to get on the hot seat going into the 2004 season. He'd regularly won 9-10 games a year against a farcically easy schedule, but was repeatedly losing to Bob Stoops in the one tough game they had each year. People were expecting big things from Vince Young in 2003, and when that did not happen you were getting quite a bit of grumbling.

So I would say that Kirby has two more years.
 
Number1CanesFan said:
Trying to flip him is a waste of time. You're saying to him, don't stay there and compete on a team that has a legit shot at an SEC title and a CFP appearance. Come here instead because it will be easier for you. You're trying to rationalize coming to Miami because the competition will be weaker.

With that rationale, he should go to a school like Rutgers where he could start from day 1 with zero true competition. Makes no sense for an elite QB when you look at it in black and white.

Why does Geogia, Alabama, Clemson, Ohio State, etc keep staking top talent at all positions? First because they're winning. Secondly, elite players want and thrive from competition.

Your argument contradicts how Miami built championship teams. Elite players came here for the competition, they didn't run from it.
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Nobody is saying "don't compete".

We would be saying "hey, do you really trust your HC to give you a fair shot?"

There is a difference.

And I'm also pointing out that Kirby went out and took 2 transfer QBs when he already had some nice talent on the roster, so it's a fair question of whether Kirby trusts what he has and will give the kids a chance to develop.

Manny didn't take any transfer QBs who will jam up the depth chart or take reps away from talented younger QBs for years to come.

There is a difference.
 
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GojiraCane said:
Little known fact if you didn't live in Austin...Mack Brown was starting to get on the hot seat going into the 2004 season. He'd regularly won 9-10 games a year against a farcically easy schedule, but was repeatedly losing to Bob Stoops in the one tough game they had each year. People were expecting big things from Vince Young in 2003, and when that did not happen you were getting quite a bit of grumbling.

So I would say that Kirby has two more years.
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That’s an interesting side note about Mack Brown, and I agree 2 years is a fair bet for Kirby.
 
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Number1CanesFan said:
Trying to flip him is a waste of time. You're saying to him, don't stay there and compete on a team that has a legit shot at an SEC title and a CFP appearance. Come here instead because it will be easier for you. You're trying to rationalize coming to Miami because the competition will be weaker.

With that rationale, he should go to a school like Rutgers where he could start from day 1 with zero true competition. Makes no sense for an elite QB when you look at it in black and white.

Why does Geogia, Alabama, Clemson, Ohio State, etc keep staking top talent at all positions? First because they're winning. Secondly, elite players want and thrive from competition.

Your argument contradicts how Miami built championship teams. Elite players came here for the competition, they didn't run from it.
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So did Joe Burrow run? What about Justin Fields? Jalen Hurts? Kyler Murray?
 
DB4 said:
So did Joe Burrow run? What about Justin Fields? Jalen Hurts? Kyler Murray?
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Kyler Murray left because he didn't want to spilt time with their other 5-star QB from the same class. Neither wanted to split time and they both left the program. Hurts competed with Tua and Tua won. Burrows competed with Haskins and Haskins won. Fields competed with Fromm and Fromm won. None of these guys chose NOT to compete coming out of high school. They didn't take an easier road. They competed, but lost. Then moved on and found success.

What has been suggested is that Vandagriff should bail on his commitment because he'll have to compete with stiffer competition. He'll compete. If he loses out,then he probably transfers. Same goes for JT Daniels. That's the deal.
 
CaneThang2020 said:
Idk, I stand by my thought that, to your point, while most QBs generally stay with their commitment, 1) this isn't the usual year per COVID, 2) Miami is one of the very few programs in the country, that if we get hot, we can turn ALOT of heads. Look no further than what happened with Jarren Williams (a top 150 player) during our run in 2017. IMO if we have a big year offensively we can flip a guy like Nussmeier or Jake Garcia or Dematrius Davis. Just my two cents though.
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Yes. We had one top tier QB in Jarren Williams on board not a plethora of QB recruits begging to come to Miami. If we have a good year offensively, we'll find a good 2021 QB recruit, but not so many that we can pick and chose whomever we want. Recruits need to see the new offense in place. IMO, these recruits will have already formed strong relationships with other coaches and schools by the time Miami really shows proof of concept. The top QBs are committed to strong P5 teams and I just don't see much movement there. Offensive production this year will set the table for the 2022 QB recruit. Perhaps we take 2 QBs in 2022 if we whiff getting a 2021 QB.

We're not flipping Garcia to leave Cali. Forget about flipping Nussmeier from the defending National Champions in LSU. Davis could be a possibility, but I don't know what type of relationship he has with Lashlee.
 
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What's the deal with Matocha? Does he project as a potential starter or will he be like another Cade Weldon?
 
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Number1CanesFan said:
Yes. We had one top tier QB in Jarren Williams on board not a plethora of QB recruits begging to come to Miami. If we have a good year offensively, we'll find a good 2021 QB recruit, but not so many that we can pick and chose whomever we want. Recruits need to see the new offense in place. IMO, these recruits will have already formed strong relationships with other coaches and schools by the time Miami really shows proof of concept. The top QBs are committed to strong P5 teams and I just don't see much movement there. Offensive production this year will set the table for the 2022 QB recruit. Perhaps we take 2 QBs in 2022 if we whiff getting a 2021 QB.

We're not flipping Garcia to leave Cali. Forget about flipping Nussmeier from the defending National Champions in LSU. Davis could be a possibility, but I don't know what type of relationship he has with Lashlee.
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If LSUs offense is how it was pre Joe Brady and we have an elite year on offense we can ABSOLUTELY flip Nussmeier.

Side Note: Garcia coming cross country is another deal, but as of last night I believe I saw something about some communication picking up between Garcia and Lashlee
 
CaneThang2020 said:
We put a Top 30 or better offensive product on the field in 2020, and we will just about have our pick of 2021 QBs....committed or uncommitted.
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Can you name a school that went from 100+ ranked Offense in the country into a Top 30 the following year?
 
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CaneThang2020 said:
Off the top...

UNC 2018 to 2019
Louisville 2018 to 2019
LSU made GIGANTIC LEAP....

But hey, I get it, you disagree, and that's fine.
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I remember there was a school once that went from unranked to winning the national championship.
 
@Hurracanes

Wow... pretty close with UNC but was spot on with the Louisville offense. Ranked bottom 20 in 2018 and Scott Satterfield brought that offense ALIVE in 2019...
 
CaneThang2020 said:
If LSUs offense is how it was pre Joe Brady and we have an elite year on offense we can ABSOLUTELY flip Nussmeier.

Side Note: Garcia coming cross country is another deal, but as of last night I believe I saw something about some communication picking up between Garcia and Lashlee
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That's a big if condsidering we've shown nothing for 3 years.
CaneThang2020 said:
If LSUs offense is how it was pre Joe Brady and we have an elite year on offense we can ABSOLUTELY flip Nussmeier.

Side Note: Garcia coming cross country is another deal, but as of last night I believe I saw something about some communication picking up between Garcia and Lashlee
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That's a BIG IF especially considering we've done nothing offensively the past two seasons. I can see Orgeron see sitting in Nussmeir's house in his raspy Cajun voice quoting Diddy as he flashes his national championship ring:

"You ain't gotta like me, they're just mad,
Cause I tell it how it is, and they tell it how it might be.
We got this ****, Mac tight, brass knuckles and flashlights!!!"

We need serious production from our offense to catch the attention of these top QBs and receivers. If King can put up some Heisman like numbers, then we can talk.
 
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CaneThang2020 said:
Idk, I stand by my thought that, to your point, while most QBs generally stay with their commitment, 1) this isn't the usual year per COVID, 2) Miami is one of the very few programs in the country, that if we get hot, we can turn ALOT of heads. Look no further than what happened with Jarren Williams (a top 150 player) during our run in 2017. IMO if we have a big year offensively we can flip a guy like Nussmeier or Jake Garcia or Dematrius Davis. Just my two cents though.
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I was thinking JW as well. However, he may be a cautionary take. A kid at QB flipping last month or two may be a flight risk.
 
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