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Can we comment on Pete and D$ debate on today’s show?

Thoughtsoncanes

Thoughtsoncanes

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I think both had some good points. We may not be where we want to be from a physical prowess standpoint on the dline but like d was saying we have recruited five stars. So a lot is riding on young guys but I think they are a step up from where we have been talent and physicality wise in recent history. Last year against UF our starting dtackles were Mesidor and Barrow. Two undersized guys. Now it’s likely going to be Scott and Moten who are much more physically where you want it to be. It goes beyond that but I would say both guys had good points.
 
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Watching them go back and forth was hilarious. Need to set up a poll on who won that debate lol
 
Pete was right, but both were conflating results vs size which is what D was arguing.

Size wise we look better at most positions ol, rb, de, db, lb.

Last year we missed production all over the Defense. LBs got burnt and out and looked out place, but physically they look like they belong. Same story with DBs; they were a disaster but they look "better". DEs definitely look good but did not produce. Also, Bain can be all world but he's not a BIG end. DT hasn't looked the part but Burrow produced.

Offensively, RB has been massively improved from a looks perspective. WR this year looks worse than last. TE is worse looking even if Lofton produces what is being advertised. OL is improved in size and production from the previous regime. But looks the same as last year.
 
Agree with Pete because I've been saying it for so long... we recruit far too many tweeners, especially on the DL. Too many DE's bodies that we want to grow into playing DT and LBs that play on the edge and guys playing on the edge that are too big or too small.

Mesidor, Bain, Blount, Bryant, Newton, Pickett, Lightfoot, Rudolph, Russell, etc. Add in Moss as a similar type of player already gone. They thought they could get Anthony Campbell to fill out into a DT.

I'm not saying those guys are bad players or anything but we've got to limit the number of those guys we take. I'd rather stick to guys like Lowe, McConathy, Simpson, Moten, Scott, etc. that you know exactly where they're going to play and they have the frame for it. Then, take a guy like Lightfoot here and there and see if he grows into it. Can't take 3 of the same player in the same class. Rudolph already got processed and it needs to be quick like that because you can tell if its going to work or not very quickly with those types.

Mesidor, Bain, and Blount are very similar players and I don't care how good they are or you think they are, 2 of the 3 or all 3 on the field at the same time with 2 of them on the edge is going to get exposed quick. They're not fast enough to cover that much ground when teams choose not to block them intentionally and just outrun them to the field side and the blocker moves up to the 2nd level. I guarantee big plays pop because of that alignment if they choose to try it. They should never be on opposite DE spots at the same time. 1 at 3T and 1 at DE? Go ahead. But we have so many tweeners it will be hard to avoid.
 
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All that being said, this is the best the DL has looked, physically, since Mario got here. The 3 main guys on the interior plus Simpson and Jones are large humans that we haven't had.

LB looks the part physically. DB definitely looks the part physically. OL has been there. RB has been there. The TE room is small and the WR room is small (too many slot receiver types). WR doesn't matter as much to me for size and TE doesn't either depending on how they're utilized.
 
The truth is usually somewhere in the middle and I think this is no different.

We look better. There's no doubt. But it is disappointing that in year 4 of Mario, there's still some glaring depth concerns across key position groups.

With that said, this is a different era in CFB pointing back to the other "super teams" topic this week. To D's point, blue blood programs are struggling with depth and have serious question marks in their position rooms, especially at DL.

If you compare OSU's DL to Miami's DL next year....size wise and from a production standpoint....you'd probably take Miami's.

Buckeyes Starters w/ next 2 guys likely coming off the bench.
  • DE Beau Atkinson (Jr.) - 6'6 265 lbs w/ 35 total tackles last year and 11 total career sacks.
  • DT Kayden McDonald (Jr.) - 6'3 326 lbs w/ 19 total tackles last year.
    • DT Tywone Malone Jr. (rSr.) - 6'4 301 lbs w/ 8 total tackles last year.
  • DT Eddrick Houston (Soph.) - 6'3 270 lbs w/ 7 total tackles last year.
  • DE Kenyatta Jackson (rJr.) - 6'6 258 lbs w/ 16 total tackles last year and 3 total career sacks.
    • DE Caden Curry (Sr.) - 6'3 260 lbs w/ 22 total tackles last year and 4 total career sacks.
Miami Starters w/ next 2 guys likely coming off the bench.
  • DE Rueben Bain (Jr.) - 6'3 275 lbs w/ 23 total tackles last year and 11 total career sacks.
  • DT Justin Scott (Soph.) - 6'4 298 lbs w/ 18 total tackles last year.
    • DT Ahmad Moten Sr (Jr.) - 6'3 325 lbs w/ 7 total tackles last year.
  • DT David Blay (Jr.) - 6'4 303 lbs w/ 16 total tackles last year and 6 sacks last year as well.
  • DE Akheem Mesidor (rSR.) - 6'3 280 lbs w/ 32 total tackles last year and 22 total career sacks.
    • DE Armondo Blount (Soph.) - 6'4 260 lbs w/ 2 total tackles last year.
 
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I think the part that gets glossed over and/or not mentioned nearly enough is that the 6'5" 330 lb DT is RARE asf. I'm not saying you can't find dudes that big (pause). I am saying you can't (readily) find dudes that big who are also limber and quick, which are the traits that separate the fair/good from the great players at that position. Why was Sapp so good? He was quick asf with his hands, hips and feet. Why was Aaron Donald so good? Incredible agility, technique and speed/quickness. Reggie White? More of a bruiser with super human strength, but also quick. There are only so many BJ Raji's on the planet. In each recruiting cycle, there may only be 4 or 5 guys who have these elite traits coupled with their size and I'm probably being generous with 4 or 5....and all the top dog programs are after them. This isn't some excuse for Mario. It's just the facts of the matter. You know why there are more large OL prospects than DT prospects? Because most 17 year olds that size are clumsy and need a lot of work to get nimble.
 
daherms said:
Pete was right, but both were conflating results vs size which is what D was arguing.

Size wise we look better at most positions ol, rb, de, db, lb.

Last year we missed production all over the Defense. LBs got burnt and out and looked out place, but physically they look like they belong. Same story with DBs; they were a disaster but they look "better". DEs definitely look good but did not produce. Also, Bain can be all world but he's not a BIG end. DT hasn't looked the part but Burrow produced.

Offensively, RB has been massively improved from a looks perspective. WR this year looks worse than last. TE is worse looking even if Lofton produces what is being advertised. OL is improved in size and production from the previous regime. But looks the same as last year.
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This isn't of vital imporance. Lots of 6'2 230 lb guys "look" like LBs, but don't have the skills to play there. I'll always prefer the 5'11 215 lb guy with elite ability to read the play. Obviously you'd like both. But skills to play the position is what counts, not satisfying some looks test or height-weight requirement.

All our DBs last year passed the height-weight test (well maybe except Markeith who is still skinny).
Yet, aside from OJ, none had a clue how to actually play DB.
 
I could care less how it “ looks”. Can you play or can’t you play? Can we develop or can’t we? Can we diagnose a play or can’t we? There’s way too many examples of great football players in College and the NFL who don’t “ look” the part. Bain “ looks “ the part because he’s an elite level DE ( when healthy). Tyler Baron “ looked “ the part but was *** the back end of the schedule
 
the fact that anyone believed this was a shoot is proof that what they got going is gooood baby
 
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JayCane20 said:
All that being said, this is the best the DL has looked, physically, since Mario got here. The 3 main guys on the interior plus Simpson and Jones are large humans that we haven't had.

LB looks the part physically. DB definitely looks the part physically. OL has been there. RB has been there. The TE room is small and the WR room is small (too many slot receiver types). WR doesn't matter as much to me for size and TE doesn't either depending on how they're utilized.
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The DT size thing is where Pete was wrong. DT is definitely bigger. You had 3 guys under 300 last year. This year the top 5 guys are all 300+. When is the last time miami had that?
 
We were conflating too much between body types and talent and I didn’t rein it in. But I loved the energy from El Pete.

Overall, this is the most balanced roster we’ve had and there is a sense of internal confidence now that Beck looks healthy. A lot of motivated players and a nice mix of experience and highly touted young talent.

In terms of body types, I think we look better across the board on defense. I hear what @JayCane20 is saying that we have a few tweeners, but Scott/Blay/Moten are true DTs and Bain/Mesidor have enough pass rush outside at the college level. They’re also strong against the run. Blount and Lowe look like five stars.
 
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