Can we comment on Pete and D$ debate on today’s show?

[Cribby]

the fact that anyone believed this was a shoot is proof that what they got going is gooood baby

 

[JayCane20]

We were conflating too much between body types and talent and I didn’t rein it in. But I loved the energy from El Pete.

Overall, this is the most balanced roster we’ve had and there is a sense of internal confidence now that Beck looks healthy. A lot of motivated players and a nice mix of experience and highly touted young talent.

In terms of body types, I think we look better across the board on defense. I hear what @JayCane20 is saying that we have a few tweeners, but Scott/Blay/Moten are true DTs and Bain/Mesidor have enough pass rush outside at the college level. They’re also strong against the run. Blount and Lowe look like five stars.

Then agree with both sides partially

All that being said, this is the best the DL has looked, physically, since Mario got here. The 3 main guys on the interior plus Simpson and Jones are large humans that we haven't had.

LB looks the part physically. DB definitely looks the part physically. OL has been there. RB has been there. The TE room is small and the WR room is small (too many slot receiver types). WR doesn't matter as much to me for size and TE doesn't either depending on how they're utilized.

 

[Dwinstitles]

Agree with Pete because I've been saying it for so long... we recruit far too many tweeners, especially on the DL. Too many DE's bodies that we want to grow into playing DT and LBs that play on the edge and guys playing on the edge that are too big or too small.

Mesidor, Bain, Blount, Bryant, Newton, Pickett, Lightfoot, Rudolph, Russell, etc. Add in Moss as a similar type of player already gone. They thought they could get Anthony Campbell to fill out into a DT.

I'm not saying those guys are bad players or anything but we've got to limit the number of those guys we take. I'd rather stick to guys like Lowe, McConathy, Simpson, Moten, Scott, etc. that you know exactly where they're going to play and they have the frame for it. Then, take a guy like Lightfoot here and there and see if he grows into it. Can't take 3 of the same player in the same class. Rudolph already got processed and it needs to be quick like that because you can tell if its going to work or not very quickly with those types.

Mesidor, Bain, and Blount are very similar players and I don't care how good they are or you think they are, 2 of the 3 or all 3 on the field at the same time with 2 of them on the edge is going to get exposed quick. They're not fast enough to cover that much ground when teams choose not to block them intentionally and just outrun them to the field side and the blocker moves up to the 2nd level. I guarantee big plays pop because of that alignment if they choose to try it. They should never be on opposite DE spots at the same time. 1 at 3T and 1 at DE? Go ahead. But we have so many tweeners it will be hard to avoid.

Big facts here

 

[Angry Ibis]

Best performance by Pete since the brow dance...

“The state media is working hard this morning” --- Pete not buying it’s different narrative for the 20th straight season…

That said, D$ outlined it… we have the bodies, super teams are dead… make the playoffs or GTFOH

 

[CaneSince07]

It all comes down to coaching and scheme we got more than enough body types to get the job done, all I heard last year was fsu's dline was elite from a talent, size standpoint how'd that work out or Ta&m with a dline full of five stars we destroyed them in 23 so all that size **** is overrated

 

[daherms]

This isn't of vital imporance. Lots of 6'2 230 lb guys "look" like LBs, but don't have the skills to play there. I'll always prefer the 5'11 215 lb guy with elite ability to read the play. Obviously you'd like both. But skills to play the position is what counts, not satisfying some looks test or height-weight requirement.

All our DBs last year passed the height-weight test (well maybe except Markeith who is still skinny).
Yet, aside from OJ, none had a clue how to actually play DB.

I dont disagree, the argument from D$ was that every room "looks" improved, generally we "look" better. Both were conflating looks and results, whether the DL was stunting too much or that we won 10 games. That wasn't the argument.

 

[grover]

Agree with both. Bain, Mesidor, and Lofton don't have the prototypical body types you want, and we're missing a big WR so we'll be small across the entire receiving corp (WRs+TEs). Those are facts. It's also a fact that those 3 guys are ballers and better college players than the vast majority of other guys at their position, and that Dawson seems to be able to scheme players open regardless of body type as long as the receivers know how to run routes and catch the ball. So the lack of several prototypical elite body types doesn't preclude us from winning the ACC and making the playoffs.

My bigger concerns are 1) durability (especially at the WR and DT spots, secondarily at S and TE) and 2) true difference makers.

Who's that guy that's going to catch a fourth down with his *** on the ground, or blow by defenders like Arroyo did, or literally carry all 11 defenders on his back into the EZ like Martinez did? Who's going to be our KK among the secondary? How many negative plays and turnovers will our defense produce when the game's on the line? Show me the ballers.

 

[bacane]

I think the part that gets glossed over and/or not mentioned nearly enough is that the 6'5" 330 lb DT is RARE asf. I'm not saying you can't find dudes that big (pause). I am saying you can't (readily) find dudes that big who are also limber and quick, which are the traits that separate the fair/good from the great players at that position. Why was Sapp so good? He was quick asf with his hands, hips and feet. Why was Aaron Donald so good? Incredible agility, technique and speed/quickness. Reggie White? More of a bruiser with super human strength, but also quick. There are only so many BJ Raji's on the planet. In each recruiting cycle, there may only be 4 or 5 guys who have these elite traits coupled with their size and I'm probably being generous with 4 or 5....and all the top dog programs are after them. This isn't some excuse for Mario. It's just the facts of the matter. You know why there are more large OL prospects than DT prospects? Because most 17 year olds that size are clumsy and need a lot of work to get nimble.

Right on point. Large human beings with elite athleticism and a nasty streak don’t grow on trees. The ability of Bama and UGA to land them has separated them under Saban and Kirby. Those dudes were key to Miami defense back in the day. Are we there yet? No, but we’re starting to make strides under Mario.

 

[jrock2332]

I think we have question marks but every team has question marks. Can Mario coach not have a letdown loss? Can Mario have a big win? Will the defense as a whole be drastically better than last year's defense. Can our wrs step up despite being inexperienced for the most part. Will beck look better than he did last year. Will beck be healthy for the entire year. At this point which is what year four it's time to be into the playoffs. I know a lot of people who look at Michigan and say look how long it took them to get to the promise land well in this nil era all bets are off. In the words of Tallahassee from zombieland. It's time to nut up or shut up no Diddy.

 

[Cane4life18]

The truth is usually somewhere in the middle and I think this is no different.

We look better. There's no doubt. But it is disappointing that in year 4 of Mario, there's still some glaring depth concerns across key position groups.

With that said, this is a different era in CFB pointing back to the other "super teams" topic this week. To D's point, blue blood programs are struggling with depth and have serious question marks in their position rooms, especially at DL.

If you compare OSU's DL to Miami's DL next year....size wise and from a production standpoint....you'd probably take Miami's.

Buckeyes Starters w/ next 2 guys likely coming off the bench.

• DE Beau Atkinson (Jr.) - 6'6 265 lbs w/ 35 total tackles last year and 11 total career sacks.
• DT Kayden McDonald (Jr.) - 6'3 326 lbs w/ 19 total tackles last year.
  • DT Tywone Malone Jr. (rSr.) - 6'4 301 lbs w/ 8 total tackles last year.
• DT Eddrick Houston (Soph.) - 6'3 270 lbs w/ 7 total tackles last year.
• DE Kenyatta Jackson (rJr.) - 6'6 258 lbs w/ 16 total tackles last year and 3 total career sacks.
  • DE Caden Curry (Sr.) - 6'3 260 lbs w/ 22 total tackles last year and 4 total career sacks.

Miami Starters w/ next 2 guys likely coming off the bench.

• DE Rueben Bain (Jr.) - 6'3 275 lbs w/ 23 total tackles last year and 11 total career sacks.
• DT Justin Scott (Soph.) - 6'4 298 lbs w/ 18 total tackles last year.
  • DT Ahmad Moten Sr (Jr.) - 6'3 325 lbs w/ 7 total tackles last year.
• DT David Blay (Jr.) - 6'4 303 lbs w/ 16 total tackles last year and 6 sacks last year as well.
• DE Akheem Mesidor (rSR.) - 6'3 280 lbs w/ 32 total tackles last year and 22 total career sacks.
  • DE Armondo Blount (Soph.) - 6'4 260 lbs w/ 2 total tackles last year.

Biggest difference I see is length. Miami is heavier along the lines, hopefully that translates to being more stout in the run game. I just hope it doesn't diminish our ability to rush the passer and create adequate havoc.

 

[D_G87]

I love a good debate, but Pete was contradicting himself that entire segment. He kept reiterating how it doesn’t “look” the way it should in every position group and when D$ brought up Blount, Lowe, and Scott he said well they are young so that really doesn’t count. The argument wasn’t production, it was how the body types look. Those three have the body types you want for an elite program

 

[Braduhley]

Pete threw tantrum not debate

No, he was just keeping it real. He definitely should have clarified with D$ that he wasn't talking about the talent level, because there's no debate that the talent level has been elevated across the board, especially on defense. But if you're talking pure body types, DLine is still a bit undersized. Specifically at D End. Ideal body size at end is like 6'5+ 260+ think like a Rousseau type.

 

[Fart Keyhole]

I love a good debate, but Pete was contradicting himself that entire segment. He kept reiterating how it doesn’t “look” the way it should in every position group and when D$ brought up Blount, Lowe, and Scott he said well they are young so that really doesn’t count. The argument wasn’t production, it was how the body types look. Those three have the body types you want for an elite program

I agree. I came away from that debate thinking that Pete's argument was motivated by the bad vibes from the 2024 finish. Hearing/reading someone describe themself as keeping it real or being a realist is on my "vibes-based reasoning" bingo card. A reality-based argument speaks for itself.

DMoney said that there "was a feeling it was starting to look like it was supposed to look". That's not exclusively a statement about body types; it connotes optimism motivated by a combination of body type, physicality, athleticism, and overall talent level. Pete tried to pin DMoney on the body types not being different along the D-line from 2024-2025. I found the argument to be fairly incoherent, as it relied on poor production to discount the rising sophomores (five stars with elite traits and prototypical body types) and Baron from last year.

Ultimately, the debate was a lot of hot air. I really think that this season's secondary on last year's defense puts the team 12-0 regular season, so the exclusive focus on the D-line body types is a bit of a distraction.

 

[OldhamA]

I think the part that gets glossed over and/or not mentioned nearly enough is that the 6'5" 330 lb DT is RARE asf. I'm not saying you can't find dudes that big (pause). I am saying you can't (readily) find dudes that big who are also limber and quick, which are the traits that separate the fair/good from the great players at that position. Why was Sapp so good? He was quick asf with his hands, hips and feet. Why was Aaron Donald so good? Incredible agility, technique and speed/quickness. Reggie White? More of a bruiser with super human strength, but also quick. There are only so many BJ Raji's on the planet. In each recruiting cycle, there may only be 4 or 5 guys who have these elite traits coupled with their size and I'm probably being generous with 4 or 5....and all the top dog programs are after them. This isn't some excuse for Mario. It's just the facts of the matter. You know why there are more large OL prospects than DT prospects? Because most 17 year olds that size are clumsy and need a lot of work to get nimble.

Those 'war daddy' type DTs get baaaaags thrown at them in College and get drafted high in the NFL.

There simply aren't too many humans built like that walking the planet.

 

[NicKane]

I think both had some good points. We may not be where we want to be from a physical prowess standpoint on the dline but like d was saying we have recruited five stars. So a lot is riding on young guys but I think they are a step up from where we have been talent and physicality wise in recent history. Last year against UF our starting dtackles were Mesidor and Barrow. Two undersized guys. Now it’s likely going to be Scott and Moten who are much more physically where you want it to be. It goes beyond that but I would say both guys had good points.

We can comment on anything and my comment is this, Pete is flat out wrong! End of story, and his argument shows, he’s never stepped foot on a football field before in his life.

 

[rsa coral gables]

We were conflating too much between body types and talent and I didn’t rein it in. But I loved the energy from El Pete.

Overall, this is the most balanced roster we’ve had and there is a sense of internal confidence now that Beck looks healthy. A lot of motivated players and a nice mix of experience and highly touted young talent.

In terms of body types, I think we look better across the board on defense. I hear what @JayCane20 is saying that we have a few tweeners, but Scott/Blay/Moten are true DTs and Bain/Mesidor have enough pass rush outside at the college level. They’re also strong against the run. Blount and Lowe look like five stars.

look like five starts from their appearance or their actual on-the-field work/production? i ask because i'm pretty tired of people LOOKING the part but not BEING the part.

 

[HurricanesR1]

Pete was 100% correct and he nailed the 'state media' comment. It's about time someone delivers some hard truth on a Canes show.

Too much propaganda with all the BS homerism. Every year since Shannon we've heard 'this year is different' yet we see the same crap on the field. The only reason last year wasn't another 8-4 trash season was because of Cam Ward. That dude covered up so many flaws on the team.

This team in 2025 looks like a prettier 9-3/8-4 team if you ask me. Don't tell me about the weak ACC because we **** the bed every year and have made ONE conf title game since we joined the conference (zero with Mario).

 

[305 MOUNTAIN MAN]

Pete was 100% correct and he nailed the 'state media' comment. It's about time someone delivers some hard truth on a Canes show.

Too much propaganda with all the BS homerism. Every year since Shannon we've heard 'this year is different' yet we see the same crap on the field. The only reason last year wasn't another 8-4 trash season was because of Cam Ward. That dude covered up so many flaws on the team.

This team in 2025 looks like a prettier 9-3/8-4 team if you ask me. Don't tell me about the weak ACC because we **** the bed every year and have made ONE conf title game since we joined the conference (zero with Mario).

Happy Friday Buddy, go get a beer.

 

[twes.305]

Pete was 100% correct and he nailed the 'state media' comment. It's about time someone delivers some hard truth on a Canes show.

Too much propaganda with all the BS homerism. Every year since Shannon we've heard 'this year is different' yet we see the same crap on the field. The only reason last year wasn't another 8-4 trash season was because of Cam Ward. That dude covered up so many flaws on the team.

This team in 2025 looks like a prettier 9-3/8-4 team if you ask me. Don't tell me about the weak ACC because we **** the bed every year and have made ONE conf title game since we joined the conference (zero with Mario).

nah, we all been watching football for a while. There is a clear difference btw the type of players of this roster from rank, to the way they look, to what we are used to.

 

[Angry Ibis]

nah, we all been watching football for a while. There is a clear difference btw the type of players of this roster from rank, to the way they look, to what we are used to.

It all points to No Excuses. Win or Mario ain’t it.