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Bill Belichick is a worse coach than Dave Wannstedt

DMoney said:
Wannstedt coached the Bears and the Jay Fiedler Dolphins. He never had a QB.

Belichick inherited Bernie Kosar and Drew Bledsoe. He botched Kosar and lost with Bledsoe. This is because he's a bad coach without Brady.
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Please. Just. Stop. This is a terrible take and its egregious af.

Bill is the best football coach to step on the field. What did Brady do without Bill?

Not start at Michigan nor win anything of note in high school or college? Go undrafted until Bill decided to pick him?

Man went to a loaded Bucs team when he left Bill. Let him would've stayed with the Pats and Bill went to the Bucs. Bill would habe his 9th ring. Gtfoh bruh.


You cant name a single HOF coach, take away his QB and they still be HOF. Terrible and trash take.

Stick to Miami football, sir. Anyone who doesnt understand what Bill has done for the game of football shouldn't be allowed to speak on anything football but ill give you this one time. Please refrain from Belicheck football slander.
 
I think Bill took the UNC job because of ego. Too many people kept saying "Bill is a terrible coach outside of #12 & the Patriot Way is bull****, he was carried by Brady" and he couldn't take it. Instead of riding off into the sunset on Sanibel Island, he had to prove everyone wrong. Unfortunately, this UNC tenure is just making the fraud claims even more valid.
 
Juanka said:
They were literally accused of recording the Rams’ walkthrough before the Super Bowl, were fined $500K, and lost draft capital. Evidence was destroyed afterward, so we’ll never know the full extent of what they had.

Then came Deflategate. 11 of 12 Patriots footballs were found to be underinflated, which can make the ball easier to grip in bad weather. Brady was suspended four games, the Patriots were fined and lost draft capital, and Brady destroyed his phone after investigators requested access to it.

You can dismiss all of that as one big nothing if you want. I don’t care. The point still stands: two major cheating scandals happened during that dynasty, and Belichick has exactly one playoff win as a head coach without Brady.
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I thought spygate was Philly. Partially deflated footballs don’t win superbowls
 
Canezum5 said:
You cant name a single HOF coach, take away his QB and they still be HOF. Terrible and trash take.
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Shula went to Super Bowls with:

Earl Morrall
Bob Griese
David Woodley
Dan Marino

Lost Griese for 10 games in 1972 and still went undefeated.

Belichick went to Super Bowls with:

Tom Brady.

Sorry, your bolded claim holds as much water as a sieve.
 
DMoney said:
Without Tom Brady. The sample size is enormous and the evidence is indisputable. There is no argument anymore.

Bill Belichick as NFL head coach: 83-101 (without Brady)
Dave Wannstedt as NFL head coach: 82-87

Bill Belichick as college head coach: 6-9
Dave Wannstedt as college head coach: 42-31

Bill Belichick championships as a defensive coordinator: 2 (New York)
Dave Wannstedt championships as a defensive coordinator: 2 (Miami and Dallas)

The only advantage Bill Belichick has is in cheating scandals, *** scandals and serial killer scandals. There is no other argument based on all the objective evidence.
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Why does this matter today ??
 
RF-4CCane said:
Shula went to Super Bowls with:

Earl Morrall
Bob Griese
David Woodley
Dan Marino

Lost Griese for 10 games in 1972 and still went undefeated.

Belichick went to Super Bowls with:

Tom Brady.

Sorry, your bolded claim holds as much water as a sieve.
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Joe Gibbs won a SB with Theismann, Doug Williams, and Mark Rypien as his Qbs.

Bill Parcells won a SB with Phil Simms and Jeff Hostetler. So 2 SBs with Giants, then Took Pats to SB (the 3yrs prior to him getting there Pats won 9 games combined, and 1 win the year before he took over), Took Jets to AFC Champ Game (the 2 yrs before Parcells they won a combined 4 games, including 1 win the year before he took over just like with Pats).

Andy Reid idk if he quite had a HOF career in Philly, as they never got over the hump with McNabb - Though he still made it to the SB there.. But he has 3 with Mahomes.

Tom Landry made 5 SBs. Made it to SB in 1970 with Craig Morton Then 1971 won the SB with Staubach. Went on to win SB again in 77 then lose it in 78 with Staubach still. Remove Staubach, idk if he is the HOFer though. Though he was doing quite well with Morton....

**** Vermeil made 2 SBs with Jaworski and Kurt Warner. Had he never took his 15yr sabbatical, his resume would likely be significantly more impressive than it already is. Built a **** Eagles and Rams franchis to SB contender and winner.

Future: McVay and Shanahan? ....

Also the problem is for both QB and HC, the 2 SB mark is usually the HOF mark. So you don't have 2 you don't get in usually, which typically ties the two together.... Except of course if the NFL hates you cause you're the Raiders who has Flores and Plunkett with 2 SBs.... Smh
 
Canezum5 said:
Please. Just. Stop. This is a terrible take and its egregious af.

Bill is the best football coach to step on the field. What did Brady do without Bill?

Not start at Michigan nor win anything of note in high school or college? Go undrafted until Bill decided to pick him?

Man went to a loaded Bucs team when he left Bill. Let him would've stayed with the Pats and Bill went to the Bucs. Bill would habe his 9th ring. Gtfoh bruh.


You cant name a single HOF coach, take away his QB and they still be HOF. Terrible and trash take.

Stick to Miami football, sir. Anyone who doesnt understand what Bill has done for the game of football shouldn't be allowed to speak on anything football but ill give you this one time. Please refrain from Belicheck football slander.
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Again Bill didn’t draft him Scott Pioli did, the GM did.
 
DMoney said:
The numbers speak for themselves. It’s amazing the sample size is so big- most coaches with that kind of record never get another opportunity.
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Issue from my perspective is with his record as a GM rather than a Head Coach.

Guy is the greatest pro coach of all time.

Can’t recite draft classes past Chad Jackson and then Laurence Maroney’s in 06 off the top but it’s been evidently clear over time he didn’t have a check in personnel decisions and surrounded himself with yes men (at least to this kid who was coming into his own watching it).

Tom further poisoned the water (much later and down the line than aforementioned issues) by alienating everyone who wasn’t going to subscribe to his dogma and vanity; regardless of Bill’s intent of a future, franchise or a roster. That is very well documented.

Guys don’t get that opportunity because they didn’t preface said “opportunity” without a demonstration of success, beforehand.

I’m all for piling on when a guy opens himself up to it, and runs a riddled ship, WHICH HE HAS, but to try to detract from prior accomplishments without factoring the whole body is just stuffing hate, D.

For what it’s worth, a black sheep Packers fan. As always, sorry for the diatribe.
 
RedSquare said:
I couldn’t care less who was a better or worse coach and don’t give a minute’s thought to either bellicheat or wanstache …

HOWEVER, watching the various meltdowns on this thread and how triggered people are on here, has me laughing my *** off. In that respect, this thread is absolutely priceless. And if it spurs anyone to commit harakiri, which seems entirely plausible, I will consider it the best set of posts since Stonehenge.
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I’m waiting to react to this post until @ben reacts to this post…
 
LeanMeanOrangeGreen said:
Not a BB or Pats fan but these “scandals” are media fodder because the media knew how tiresome their dynasty had become and fans generally like parity in sports. I know we’re all very happy Canes fans at the fact that Alabama and Clemson aren’t beating every team by 30 PPG with rosters loaded with depth at every position. NIL and the transfer portal leveled the field and weakened these super teams. It’s much more fun to watch, ain’t it?

These “scandals” are so outrageously stupid.

“Spygate”
Lol. You mean one team is trying to figure out what the other team is going to do based on their sideline signals? Lololol. Okay, I guess everyone is a cheater.

“Deflategate”
This, is by far, hilariously moronic I just laugh every time someone brings it up. Ask any QB or EQ manager and they’ll tell you QB’s have a preference when it comes to which game balls they want to use. They’ll come into an EQ room the night before a game to choose which balls they want to use for game balls. You know, because they’ll be handling the balls for the majority of the game. They’ll choose 3/5 balls or so that make the cut. Texture (grip), as well as air pressure play a factor in which balls they choose. QB’s might ask someone to remove air from over inflated balls if they’re too hard. Having an under inflated ball gives you no advantage. You won’t be able to throw with the same velocity or make deep throws with an under inflated ball. Consider balls lose air naturally in cold weather too.

Just about every QB defended Brady during this made up scandal. The fact people consider this “cheating” is desperate and pathetic. Yeah I hated the evil Patriot empire too but making these ridiculous claims is such a reach, it ain’t funny.
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Was ridiculous. An under-inflated ball only gives one an advantage if your hands are undersized via grip; gives you less via flight.

Aaron Rodgers (jerk or not) came out right away and said he pushed over-inflated because it gave more flight and he had the hands to handle that.

@Confidence1000 is lurking somewhere
 
itsdolphhh said:
I think Bill took the UNC job because of ego. Too many people kept saying "Bill is a terrible coach outside of #12 & the Patriot Way is bull****, he was carried by Brady" and he couldn't take it. Instead of riding off into the sunset on Sanibel Island, he had to prove everyone wrong. Unfortunately, this UNC tenure is just making the fraud claims even more valid.
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You’re absolutely right on the first point but I don’t feel it’s done yet.
 
cookies said:
JJ without Michael Irvin: 29-24-1 at ok state

19-6 at Miami; no championships. Couldn’t beat ND without Irvin

Irvin won another championship without JJ coaching the cowboys

36-28 with the dolphins; had Dan Marino throw 5 INTs against his former cowboys. Couldn’t bring Dan Marino to the promised land; forever preventing Marino from remaining in the same conversation as the legendary young quarterbacks on the ascension in the 21st century.

Now get this, first season without JJ, the dolphins improved by two wins and won a playoff game. When JJ got to miami, he failed to improve their record in the first year as they were 9-7 prior then went 8–8 in JJ’s first year. BB improved the Browns immediately and they have been in purgatory since he’s left

Dan Marino is basically James harden to today’s youth
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Wait a sec are you saying that ‘87 team doesn’t win a title w/out Playmaker or those Cowboys team don’t win without him either? The Barry Switzer team won cus of Playmaker and that team doesn’t win without him?

Marino is Harden?

1790143948431.gif
 
DMoney said:
bacane said:
Not a Belichick fan, but he also constructed the team around Brady. Could argue Brady would have been average at best if drafted by Browns, Lions, Bears, etc. Also saying he botched Kosar is a reach.
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The team he constructed missed the playoffs the year Brady got hurt, despite going undefeated the year before.

Matt Cassell left to play with a real coach, Andy Reid, made the playoffs and went to the Pro Bowl.
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Worth noting though, one of only two (85 Broncos) 11 win teams to miss the playoffs. It’s not like they were **** that year, there was like three teams at 11-5 and they lost the tie breakers if I recall correctly. But even with the added 17th game, still no 11 win teams have been left out since them.

But yes, as a Pats fan I can admit, it was Brady that made Belichick. FYI, every team pushes the rules. It was about ball PSI, you still gotta block and tackle. I don’t believe any player believes they were getting a distinct advantage from the balls. But that’s how I’d feel as a competitor. Stealing signs/plays well that’s a game changer.

Whatever Cigs is doing at Indiana seems shady. Reports of players calling out plays before they happen, seems awfully convenient. And it obviously gives them an advantage. But it could be that he’s found a loophole and technically is legit but it’s definitely creating an advantage for them.

We know the SEC hates NIL because they lost their payment program advantage. It’s why the SEC schools talk the most crap about NIL, it leveled the playing field for them. Again, cheating that was definitely creating an advantage for them.

Just my $.02
 
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