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Ben Davis - Alabama LB transfer

puertorricane said:
Coker was part of Butch's staff.
My point is that talent is more important than coaching. Coker is proof of that.
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Not really, b/c talent stayed w/ Coker. We recruited very well under him. The problem is once the guys Butch coached up left, the coaching & lack of development was on full display.
 
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puertorricane said:
What's your point? Butch left and Coker won a title with those same players and played for a second one.
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Again, nvm...carry on

I’ve already stated what took place, and the 02-03 season was a microcosm. EVERYBODY & their mama’s mama know what took place & the devolution of The U. Talent wasn’t the problem; once the infrastructure that BUTCH MF’N DAVIS built w/ HIS recruits started leaving.....u know what, nvm. U can go back & forth w/ @Ethnicsands or @caneinorlando on this.
 
Rellyrell said:
Again, nvm...carry on

I’ve already stated what took place, and the 02-03 season was a microcosm. EVERYBODY & their mama’s mama know what took place & the devolution of The U. Talent wasn’t the problem; once the infrastructure that BUTCH MF’N DAVIS built w/ HIS recruits started leaving.....u know what, nvm. U can go back & forth w/ @Ethnicsands or @caneinorlando on this.
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So does coaching matter or not? Coker was a bad coach everyone agrees on that, yet he won a title and played for a second one.
Which is the point some are trying to make here about Bama. Is it all the 5stars they get or the coaching.
Anyone can coach a loaded roster, Coker did.
 
puertorricane said:
So does coaching matter or not? Coker was a bad coach everyone agrees on that, yet he won a title and played for a second one.
Which is the point some are trying to make here about Bama. Is it all the 5stars they get or the coaching.
Anyone can coach a loaded roster, Coker did.
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If you're a sh*t coach you can inherit a talented roster and win for a while but eventually it catches up with you. It isn't rocket science. Do I have to point out the obvious, that Saban's continued success kind of makes your argument asinine, and that recruiting is such a huge part of that continued success? It's not like you can separate recruiting the best players year in year out from being a quality coach. Sure, nitpick Xs and Os and gameday stuff but Coker failed across the board once his imprint was firmly in the program. Any slightly objective person realized he rode Butch's coattails.. And yes, Butch was a mediocre/borderline sh*tty gameday coach but he was a program builder. Actually not a far cry from JJ. JJ is a saint in UM football lore and he should be but he was not a brilliant gameday strategist.
 
pacusmc said:
The problem is that this happens all the time at Bama and nobody notices it. The reason they don’t notice Ben Davis not playing is because you have Harris, Moses, and like 2 other freaks at that position.
You don’t notice the receivers that don’t do anything like Xavier Williams cause you have smith a and Jeudy winning awards.
You don’t notice all the 5 star trench bullies that don’t make the league cause of Hand, Leatherwood and Neal and Q Williams. They have over 70 blue chip recruits on their 85 man roster and I guarantee you that most of them won’t make the league.
But we suck at development cause for the past 10 years some of our 4 star sofla kids didn’t pan out the way our fans thought they should’ve.

I keep telling everyone that these frontrunner schools get dudes in the draft because of the high number of elite talent they get every year and not cause they have some development magic.
They literally change position coaches on a yearly basis and most of those guys nobody here has heard of them.
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Good points.

As for Alabama on the blue chip ratio, I've wondered if it is theoretically possible for them to get to an 85 person roster that is composed entirely of 5 star players?
 
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GojiraCane said:
Good points.

As for Alabama on the blue chip ratio, I've wondered if it is theoretically possible for them to get to an 85 person roster that is composed entirely of 5 star players?
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They would have to get all of them for like 3 years straight and hope non het hurt or transfer.
I think 247 allows like for 30 five stars each year max or something.

Edit: Or they might also get sides from the portal but it would still be difficult
 
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Dr.Doom said:
How many 3 stars is saban putting in the league? Even if his lower end 4 stars?
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No stars:
2009 - Rashad Johnson (3rd round)
2010 - Mike Johnson (3rd round)
2010 - Marquis Johnson (7th round)

3 stars:
2009 - Glenn Coffee (3rd round)
2009 - Antoine Caldwell 3rd round)
2010 - Kareem Jackson (1st round)
2010 - Javier Arenas (2nd round)
2010 - Terrance Cody (2nd round)
2010 - Brandon Deaderick (7th round)
2011 - Greg McElroy (7th round)
2012 - Josh Chapman (5th round)
2012 - Brad Smelly (7th round)
2013 - Chance Warmack (1st round)
2014 - Vinnie Sunseri (5th round)
2015 - Austin Shepherd (7th round)
2017- Eddie Jackson (4th round)
2018 - JK Scott (5th round)
2018- Bradley Bozeman (6th round)
2019 - Josh Jacobs (1st round)
2019 - Irv Smith (2nd round)

Low 4 stars (composite of .8950 - .9199):
2011 - Marvell Dareus (1st round)
2011 - James Carpenter (1st round)
2012 - Dont’a Hightower (1st round)
2012 - Dequan Menzie (5th round)
2013 - Quinton Dial (5th round)
2013 - Michael Williams (7th round)
2014 - Kevin Norwood (4th round)
2014 - Ed Stinson (5th round)
2015 - Jalston Fowler (4th round)
2016 - Ryan Kelly (1st round)
2016 - Jarren Reed (2nd round)
2017 - Dalvin Tomlinson (2nd round)
2018 - Ronnie Harrison (3rd round)
2018 - Anthony Averett (4th round)
2018 - Shaun Dion Hamilton (6th round)
 
Trav said:
If you're a sh*t coach you can inherit a talented roster and win for a while but eventually it catches up with you. It isn't rocket science. Do I have to point out the obvious, that Saban's continued success kind of makes your argument asinine, and that recruiting is such a huge part of that continued success? It's not like you can separate recruiting the best players year in year out from being a quality coach. Sure, nitpick Xs and Os and gameday stuff but Coker failed across the board once his imprint was firmly in the program. Any slightly objective person realized he rode Butch's coattails.. And yes, Butch was a mediocre/borderline sh*tty gameday coach but he was a program builder. Actually not a far cry from JJ. JJ is a saint in UM football lore and he should be but he was not a brilliant gameday strategist.
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You just agreed with me
 
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2010 - Mike Johnson (3rd round)
Rellyrell said:
2010 - Marquis Johnson (7th round)

3 stars:
2009 - Glenn Coffee (3rd round)
2009 - Antoine Caldwell 3rd round)
2010 - Kareem Jackson (1st round)
2010 - Javier Arenas (2nd round)
2010 - Terrance Cody (2nd round)
2010 - Brandon Deaderick (7th round)
2011 - Greg McElroy (7th round)
2012 - Josh Chapman (5th round)
2012 - Brad Smelly (7th round)
2013 - Chance Warmack (1st round)
2014 - Vinnie Sunseri (5th round)
2015 - Austin Shepherd (7th round)
2017- Eddie Jackson (4th round)
2018 - JK Scott (5th round)
2018- Bradley Bozeman (6th round)
2019 - Josh Jacobs (1st round)
2019 - Irv Smith (2nd round)

Low 4 stars (composite of .8950 - .9199):
2011 - Marvell Dareus (1st round)
2011 - James Carpenter (1st round)
2012 - Dont’a Hightower (1st round)
2012 - Dequan Menzie (5th round)
2013 - Quinton Dial (5th round)
2013 - Michael Williams (7th round)
2014 - Kevin Norwood (4th round)
2014 - Ed Stinson (5th round)
2015 - Jalston Fowler (4th round)
2016 - Ryan Kelly (1st round)
2016 - Jarren Reed (2nd round)
2017 - Dalvin Tomlinson (2nd round)
2018 - Ronnie Harrison (3rd round)
2018 - Anthony Averett (4th round)
2018 - Shaun Dion Hamilton (6th round)
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Excluding five stars and 4 stars above .9199

The 2005 recruiting class:
4 four stars
21 three stars
3 two stars

2 three stars and 1 walk on drafted

2006 recruiting class
2 four stars
18 three stars
1 no ranking

1 three star, 1 no ranking, 1 walk on drafted

2007 recruiting class
2 four stars
15 three stars
1 two star
6 not ranked

2 three stars drafted

I don’t have time to go through the rest but saban wasn’t developing players to NFL talent at any astronomical percentage . It probably improved over time, but these numbers aren’t special
 
puertorricane said:
What's your point? Butch left and Coker won a title with those same players and played for a second one.
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Butch would have also won 1, and probably two since the game probably wouldn't have been as close as it was to allow a BS call to decide the game.

Butch was in the process of building a dynasty and instead got greedy or just wanted something different. He is where he belongs.

I get the points you are trying to make and I am with you right up to the point you start saying Coker=Davis and it didn't matter. Coker was horrible.
 
CaneDawgCrew said:
Butch would have also won 1, and probably two since the game probably wouldn't have been as close as it was to allow a BS call to decide the game.

Butch was in the process of building a dynasty and instead got greedy or just wanted something different. He is where he belongs.

I get the points you are trying to make and I am with you right up to the point you start saying Coker=Davis and it didn't matter. Coker was horrible.
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A lot of ifs and assumptions there.
We don’t know if Butch would've won cause he didn't and Coker did.
He assembled a great team but hasn't repeated it anywhere else.
So was it evaluations, development or was he just lucky.
 
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Rellyrell said:
Imo, this is a chicken or egg situation. Is Saban getting the top recruits b/c he’s a good coach & developer or is Saban a good coach b/c of the top recruits he get? Imo, it’s the 1st & not the latter. I’m in no way discounting getting top recruits; of course u need the ingredients. But what good is a chef if he doesn’t know what to do w/ said ingredients?

We’ve witnessed first hand, here in Miami, that having top recruits don’t mean chit if u can’t develop them, and I’m not talking about the Shannon - Diaz yrs, I’m talking about us being thee premier program in America & literally having chit to show for it besides an “almost” National Championship in 2003. We also saw as time went on, our recruiting classes became worst & worst.

So I’m of the thought that the best wanna play with the best & a winning program. However, in order to get to this point, results gotta be shown. So when it comes to Saban, even at his days at MSU, results showed by producing high draft picks & having the best coaching record there in over 15 yrs.
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Maybe you add to this later, but one thing that's overlooked is Saban and his coaching carousel. Guy has had how many coordinators, coaches, and support staff get poached and he still kills it every year?

My lord, if someone is questioning Saban, there's no amount of knowledge or situations you can dump on their head that'll make them realize he's the best coach ever. No matter what changes around him, he's still there, and that program doesn't miss a beat.
 
SayWhat said:
Maybe you add to this later, but one thing that's overlooked is Saban and his coaching carousel. Guy has had how many coordinators, coaches, and support staff get poached and he still kills it every year?

My lord, if someone is questioning Saban, there's no amount of knowledge or situations you can dump on their head that'll make them realize he's the best coach ever. No matter what changes around him, he's still there, and that program doesn't miss a beat.
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*college coach. no doubt.

Bill has him by a mile imo, to do it consistently in the pro's is a whole nother level
 
SayWhat said:
Maybe you add to this later, but one thing that's overlooked is Saban and his coaching carousel. Guy has had how many coordinators, coaches, and support staff get poached and he still kills it every year?

My lord, if someone is questioning Saban, there's no amount of knowledge or situations you can dump on their head that'll make them realize he's the best coach ever. No matter what changes around him, he's still there, and that program doesn't miss a beat.
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Bro that’s an excellent point, one that I totally neglected. We’ve used that as an excuse for yrs, as well. Yet, Saban has bled through his coaching staff, and nothing changes.
 
Dr.Doom said:
2010 - Mike Johnson (3rd round)

Excluding five stars and 4 stars above .9199

The 2005 recruiting class:
4 four stars
21 three stars
3 two stars

2 three stars and 1 walk on drafted

2006 recruiting class
2 four stars
18 three stars
1 no ranking

1 three star, 1 no ranking, 1 walk on drafted

2007 recruiting class
2 four stars
15 three stars
1 two star
6 not ranked

2 three stars drafted

I don’t have time to go through the rest but saban wasn’t developing players to NFL talent at any astronomical percentage . It probably improved over time, but these numbers aren’t special
Click to expand...

Huh? I’m not getting ur point.
 
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