Baker: play calling or scheme?

[Empirical Cane]

Tons of discussion how de facto HC Lashlee's O scheme has brought success, with basically the same players, to Coral Gables.

I think we can all agree D'No schemes where abhorrent and the market has not spoken highly of his DC ability. Almost instant turn around when he was changed out.

For Baker, is it his play calling or scheme that have generated the heat his way?

Does he get unfair criticism or with the right changeout, the Canes D could take another step up similar to when D'No left?

For me, I think Baker suffers from to much Ryan family affliction. Calling these "exotic" blitz packages and expecting the athlete to cover too much distance to get home just don't work.

It isn't risk-reward, but foolish.

 

[Hurracanes]

Both. They go hand and hand in this system. Hence, why I expect Clemson to have success with our Defense. We will be put in position to not handle their Offense. Unfortunately, we don’t have the talent to make up for the amateur staff.

 

[KANE]

Both. We blitz at dumb times during the games, and we TRY to play a ton of zone coverages, behind said blitzes. This opens up craters of space in the defensive backfield. Mix in the fact that our blitzers look like they are ALWAYS getting there late, it gives opposing QB's a much clearer view of where to go with the ball. It's like we're trying to be too cute with our schemes, and it's probably going to hurt us BIG somewhere in the season. My .02

 

[JD08]

When they avoid the 3rd down blitz that starts from 10 yards away they're a lot better. If you're going to blitz, you absolutely have to cover where the blitz is coming from.

 

[Mnhurricane]

We could blitz as often as we do now and take a step up if our zone behind it was shorter, looking to jump the shallow routes that torch our said blitzes. You’re welcome baker

 

[dirtyred786]

Both. Blitzing with soft zone coverage behind it against a good qb is a recipe for disaster. Then when we don't blitz, we run these D line stunts on running downs and get caught out of position. Plus we run these stunts no matter what personnel grouping is on the field which is ridiculous. Miller and Ford should not be stunting.

 

[CANEMC]

Both. Manny needs to simplify it. We have the athletes to play straight up without all the gimmicks.

 

[Billy D Williams]

It's a combination of both play calling and scheme with a sprinkle of poor coaching.

1. Calling a Corner blitz from 15 yards away the wide side​
2. Having the DE attack under and inside the OT leaving the end of the line wide open.​
3. STUNTS! I saw Baker loop slow *** Jon Ford from A Gap to around the end. He was too slow to put pressure on the QB and too slow to affect the RB.​
4. On 3rd and short passing downs having the DB's play 10 yards off is just plain silly.​

I think bringing Winston Moss in will give us NFL caliber coaching and assistants. Not to mention being from and recruiting SOFL.

 

[Go Canes!!]

Through three games:

Our opponents have scored 7,6 and 3 first half points.
We are 13th in 3rd down D
We are 3rd in TFL
We are 13th in sacks
We are 14th in scoring D

You can go back to arm chair DCing now.

 

[Gatorhater]

Tons of discussion how de facto HC Lashlee's O scheme has brought success, with basically the same players, to Coral Gables.

I think we can all agree D'No schemes where abhorrent and the market has not spoken highly of his DC ability. Almost instant turn around when he was changed out.

For Baker, is it his play calling or scheme that have generated the heat his way?

Does he get unfair criticism or with the right changeout, the Canes D could take another step up similar to when D'No left?

For me, I think Baker suffers from to much Ryan family affliction. Calling these "exotic" blitz packages and expecting the athlete to cover too much distance to get home just don't work.

It isn't risk-reward, but foolish.

Isn't that Manny's legacy? I like aggressive attacking D but in the old Cane way -- hellbent meet me at the QB and play run along the way. Not sure we have the team speed for it but but we need to get it. It did require players to beat the man in front of them but any scheme based D can be out-coached. You can't "coach up" your QB to take a beating and keep on ticking. Manny's D has history of early years success and then fades. Let's hope that the new O can add pressure to Clemson's O exposed the QB more and make Manny's risks pay off.

 

[#1cane]

Tons of discussion how de facto HC Lashlee's O scheme has brought success, with basically the same players, to Coral Gables.

I think we can all agree D'No schemes where abhorrent and the market has not spoken highly of his DC ability. Almost instant turn around when he was changed out.

For Baker, is it his play calling or scheme that have generated the heat his way?

Does he get unfair criticism or with the right changeout, the Canes D could take another step up similar to when D'No left?

For me, I think Baker suffers from to much Ryan family affliction. Calling these "exotic" blitz packages and expecting the athlete to cover too much distance to get home just don't work.

It isn't risk-reward, but fooli

Live by the blitz die by the blitz. Remember a 4th and 17 blitz?

 

[Coach Macho]

Some stuff we do on defense is really nice.
Other stuff, not so much.

Against FSU, Bolden's sack and McCloud's sack were nice "overload" blitzes. Nothing fancy or crazy about them, we simply sent too many off one side for FSU's OL to block. It's sound, quick and gets home.

Some of our stunts are nice too, but sometimes we get a little carried away with them.

But then you have the blitz that we sent on the Blades interception. The QB mistakenly looked to his right, Bolden tipped the ball and it was picked by Blades. But you look on the other side of the field, Miami sent a gimmicky blitz that left FSU WR's wide open. Would've been an easy touchdown.

And the successful FSU game doesn't make me forget about the effort we had versus Louisville. Playing man with OUTSIDE leverage while having no inside help. Lining up with poor pre-snap leverage. Giving up EVERYTHING underneath, alllllll the way down the field. Making zero effort to take their best player out of the game.

I don't mind blitzing, but I've always thought it was about TIME, PLACE and EFFICIENCY. Blitzing a Striker from 29 yards away is hardly efficient IMO. Blitzing 6 guys but playing a soft zone behind it is INFURIATING. I know WHY we do it though. From the horse's mouth. When you blitz and play zone behind it (as opposed to man) you have eyes on the QB, which can lead to more interceptions. (assuming the WR's actually run right into your zones)
But the book is out on Baker/Diaz. They're "Fire Zone" guys. Most OC's know that when we blitz we're gonna leave underneath areas wide open.
I literally watched Baker give a clinic on "Void Zone Pressures" and the film he was showing us had WR's wide open. People in the clinic were looking at each other like...

 

[Maskoff407]

Manny mentioned that he’s putting together the game plan for Clemson.

 

[SouthsideAtl]

I noticed we didn’t do that dumb delayed blitz last game

 

[Coach Macho]

Through three games:

Our opponents have scored 7,6 and 3 first half points.
We are 13th in 3rd down D
We are 3rd in TFL
We are 13th in sacks
We are 14th in scoring D

You can go back to arm chair DCing now.

The one decent offensive opponent we faced scored 34 points and had over 500 yards of offense.
Their QB, RB and WR all had big days.

That same offense got skull fvcked a week later by Pitt.
Does Pitt have better defensive players than us?

Since Diaz has been here this defense has accumulated it's **** stats versus trash offenses but had it's lunch eaten by good ones.
That's why I think it's kinda funny when we continue to promote these subjective numbers.

 

[Gi0logy]

Through three games:

Our opponents have scored 7,6 and 3 first half points.
We are 13th in 3rd down D
We are 3rd in TFL
We are 13th in sacks
We are 14th in scoring D

You can go back to arm chair DCing now.

Those numbers will likely look different after this week but I hear you.

I think our defense is in that tier 2 discussion (good to great not but elite). It’s an opportunistic defense which I personally believe is what you need in this day and age of high scoring offenses.

It’s nearly impossible to shut out every team you play. But this is the type of defense that can struggle in giving up points and yards yet still have a good game with some perfectly timed turnovers/negative plays.

One thing is for sure...getting players like James Williams, Leonard Taylor, Avantae, etc can certainly elevate us to that elite tier.

 

[MovingZen]

Aggressive in the front and scared in the back. It seemed like a lot of teams last year knew they could get through our OL and played their dbs in the areas our wr's would have to be when the dl got home and the qb had to get rid of the ball. I'd like to see Baker do more of that. Bring the dbs up and pressure the wrs close so they're not wide open when the qb has to get rid of the ball. Stop giving opposing qbs easy throws to avoid our dls pressure. We might give up the occasional big play but I think our offense has more than enough fire power to overcome that. Baker needs to ask Lashlee what he would do to overcome his defense and then play his dbs to counter that.

 

[Canes91]

Aggressive in the front and scared in the back. It seemed like a lot of teams last year knew they could get through our OL and played their dbs in the areas our wr's would have to be when the dl got home and the qb had to get rid of the ball. I'd like to see Baker do more of that. Bring the dbs up and pressure the wrs close so they're not wide open when the qb has to get rid of the ball. Stop giving opposing qbs easy throws to avoid our dls pressure. We might give up the occasional big play but I think our offense has more than enough fire power to overcome that. Baker needs to ask Lashlee what he would do to overcome his defense and then play his dbs to counter that.

Im convinced he is scared to play our DBs in press man. We never do it only sometimes with our boundary corner

 

[Go Canes!!]

The one decent offensive opponent we faced scored 34 points and had over 500 yards of offense.
Their QB, RB and WR all had big days.

That same offense got skull fvcked a week later by Pitt.
Does Pitt have better defensive players than us?

Since Diaz has been here this defense has accumulated it's **** stats versus trash offenses but had it's lunch eaten by good ones.
That's why I think it's kinda funny when we continue to promote these subjective numbers.

Go through Louisville offensive totals through the first 3/4th of the game against us and Pitt. They are virtually identical. They scored six points in the first half against us and had 20 points through 11 drives against both teams. The difference in those games was Pitt controlled clock, dominating in TOP while we scored at will, including multiple one play drives. That gave Louisville a ton more chances to make plays offensively. So your description of those two games are not remotely accurate.

Besides that game, the greater reality is this D, with very few exceptions does it's job just about every single week. It dominates ****** offenses and keeps us in games against the better ones. In today's college football that is something not a lot of teams can say. Just ask Oklahoma and Texas.

So it's not about **** or subjective stats. It's about recognizing what college football is and where our defense is within it. When it comes to that perspective, sorry the absurd nitpicking and mind numbing hot takes from some of the arm chair coordinators here is beyond ludicrous.

 

[Arehel]

Some stuff we do on defense is really nice.
Other stuff, not so much.

Against FSU, Bolden's sack and McCloud's sack were nice "overload" blitzes. Nothing fancy or crazy about them, we simply sent too many off one side for FSU's OL to block. It's sound, quick and gets home.

Some of our stunts are nice too, but sometimes we get a little carried away with them.

But then you have the blitz that we sent on the Blades interception. The QB mistakenly looked to his right, Bolden tipped the ball and it was picked by Blades. But you look on the other side of the field, Miami sent a gimmicky blitz that left FSU WR's wide open. Would've been an easy touchdown.

And the successful FSU game doesn't make me forget about the effort we had versus Louisville. Playing man with OUTSIDE leverage while having no inside help. Lining up with poor pre-snap leverage. Giving up EVERYTHING underneath, alllllll the way down the field. Making zero effort to take their best player out of the game.

I don't mind blitzing, but I've always thought it was about TIME, PLACE and EFFICIENCY. Blitzing a Striker from 29 yards away is hardly efficient IMO. Blitzing 6 guys but playing a soft zone behind it is INFURIATING. I know WHY we do it though. From the horse's mouth. When you blitz and play zone behind it (as opposed to man) you have eyes on the QB, which can lead to more interceptions. (assuming the WR's actually run right into your zones)
But the book is out on Baker/Diaz. They're "Fire Zone" guys. Most OC's know that when we blitz we're gonna leave underneath areas wide open.
I literally watched Baker give a clinic on "Void Zone Pressures" and the film he was showing us had WR's wide open. People in the clinic were looking at each other like...

Since you were there, and we have similar eyes, I guess his assumption is, QB will panic and throw to a typical outside hot read (i.e., a flat by RB or Slot or slant by a Outside receiver), as opposed to newer hot reads (i.e., drags).
I'm with you, if he knows this is the weakness of his defense, why not have a Void Pressure Blitz that covers the drag route, and call it about 1/4 of the time, just to mess with he OCs brain, but it never happens. Those play calls are pretty predictable, (i.e., 3rd and mid-long, or general any passing own).
That's what is most frustrating. Hoping he grows/evolves the defense, is all I'm asking for.