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Anyone else concerned about Ruiz's alleged net worth?

OriginalCanesCanesCanes said:
I don’t believe that. There’s some smart people that post here, myself excluded.

I’m smart enough to know one thing though, and that is the NCAA has nothing to say or do about NIL deals.

These NIL deals are getting thrown around and players are being paid salaries upfront, and very publicly, throughout the entire SEC and P5 world.

But somehow the morons here make it an NCAA issue.
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You can keep explaining if you want, but some people just lack to capacity to understand what you're saying.

It's actually pretty funny that people think this is shady but somehow the university and all the lawyers have missed it. People outside the UM community are just ****ed/scared we'll be able to compete now, and people within are scared this will all come crashing down. To be fair, there's no doubt the NCAA is doing everything it can to figure out a way to get back in this game and if they do they'll come for us first.
 
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Personally I don't trust the guy he just seems off. People who really are about it, move in silence. I didn't even know who Carol Soffer was until she dropped big bags on the IPF. Thats how you really do it. Hopefully everything ends well though.
 
kryptonite said:
You can keep explaining if you want, but some people just lack to capacity to understand what you're saying.

It's actually pretty funny that people think this is shady but somehow the university and all the lawyers have missed it. People outside the UM community are just ****ed/scared we'll be able to compete now, and people within are scared this will all come crashing down. To be fair, there's no doubt the NCAA is doing everything it can to figure out a way to get back in this game and if they do they'll come for us first.
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I agree with what you’re saying, but regarding the part I highlighted: if they come for us first, we’re not going to roll over and offer up our hind end, we will fight with teams and teams of lawyers.

And we will not lose.

Why?

We can prove that this is being done everywhere in exactly the same way.

These are not back alley boosters handing untraceable bags of cash to recruits.

Anybody can find out what any school is doing because these are legal agreements. In other words there is filed paperwork, there is a paper trace.

So there are tons of identical deals by a bunch of SEC and P5 schools.

This is all above the line, and we’re not doing anything differently. So fūck them if they try to do something against us. They have nothing on their side.
 
Zbrod95 said:
He’s probably going to use loans then use the revenue from all sources involved to pay off said loans. Just like any other gigantic business venture because believe it or not that stadium is going to be a gigantic business venture for him.
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Was just going to ask. Has he said he’s giving 30-50 billion to UM? If not idc if he’s ever worth that much money as long as he has enough to slide us a few million a year I’m good. Not too mention if the stadium is approved it would just be another revenue stream for the Ruiz family anyway.
 
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Alot of you guys from the posts I am reading wouldnt be satisfied unless Ruiz:

A) Passed some Fortune 500 level audit of his entire financial situation and the audit company did a press conference giving him a clean bill of financial health

or

B) He sent you a screenshot of all his bank accounts and assets so you can do the calculation yourself on your IPhone calculator.

Get out of the mans pockets. Even if hes only worth 100M he can still cover the tab on these NIL deals. Thats all that matters. The stadium dreams is just that..a dream at this point.
 
We live in Miami, Florida. Everyone is scamming & claiming to be something they aren't. His net worth doesn't matter as long as he has the money to give NIL deals and support the team.
 
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Katzenboyer said:
Before going any further, I'm absolutely loving what the guy is doing for the program, and hope that it continues. This isn't an attempt to **** on a guy who clearly loves the Canes and is doing all he can to make UM into the power it was in its heyday.

But...is anyone else worried that it's funny money? For reference, I'm talking about this article, that came out in December (think it's behind a paywall). https://www.law.com/dailybusinessre...wyer-john-ruiz-turned-millions-into-billions/

The parts that concern me:



So the company currently doesn't generate any revenue ($800 million in investor funds is not revenue, FWIW), but it's expected to generate $3 billion in revenue next year? And $23 billion in five years? That's pie-in-the-sky stuff.

The other issue is Lionheart Capital, the firm that set up the special acquisition company (SPAC) that is currently valuing MSP Recovery in the billions. Lionheart's (and its CEO, Ophir Sternberg) main claim to fame is that it brought BurgerFi public using the same SPAC it's using to make Ruiz a billionaire. But BurgerFi's founder is suing Lionheart and Sternberg in Miami-Dade, and there are a bunch of other lawsuits against the company for misleading investors (or outright stealing investor money) over the course of the last few years (just do a simple docket search on the Miami-Dade Clerk of Courts; there are a LOT of pending lawsuits against the company and Sternberg individually).

Am I missing something? It just seems to be too good to be true.
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Yes. I've written about this elsewhere and done a reasonably deep dive on the deal on my own time, which is...well, being as charitable as possible, it is a *highly* unusual deal even in the wild west of already questionable SPAC deals. Even if the deal gets done somehow, he will only be a paper billionaire - he'd need someone to actually buy his shares to be a real billionaire which I don't think he'd be able to do.

www.canesinsight.com

The John Ruiz family is ready to support Miami’s athletic department ‘substantially’ in the future per 247

All this bull **** about lack of money facilities etc is nauseating we won 5 national championships without any of that. What we need is a coach who knows how to win, recruit, recognize need and properly fill it. Times have changed dramatically since the last ship and we have fallen way behind...
www.canesinsight.com www.canesinsight.com



I share your concerns about the reputational risk to UM if this guy turns out to be next in a long line of Miami frauds. The fact that UM receives greater scrutiny for this sort of thing than your generic SEC school, while completely unfair, heightens this risk. But bottom line is I love what he's doing for the program, and, assuming at least some of his wealth is above board, I don't wanna discourage the guy. ****, I'd be OK with Nevin Shapiro at this point - at least the little guy put his (investor's, lol) money where his mouth was with respect to the program, which is more than most boosters can say over the last 15 years.

Plus, since it's a message board, it's far too difficult to chart the delicate course between nuanced discussion and concern trolling. So whatever, hope his insane SPAC deal works out for him and he makes billions and gives it all to the program.
 
Katzenboyer said:
This is partially correct.

The "proprietary software" is not his product. He will not be selling it. It's simply a way of locating claims.

Second, the MSP Recovery Act is rear-looking. Basically, Ruiz's value is in the claims he's pursuing in which insurers are on the hook for payments already made by Medicare/Medicaid. There is value in those claims (although again, I have a very hard time seeing how it's valued in the billions, since the company hasn't generated revenue despite the firm pursuing these claims for years).

But there isn't a huge value in the claims moving forward. This type of practice is no longer happening as much as it has in the past, and certainly not to the point where billions will be pouring in annually.

The other issue is that Ruiz will face stiffening competition. He's not the only firm that handles these types of claims, and the valuation seems to be based off the assumption that he has a monopoly on this work. He doesn't.
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I would add this - having worked for publicly-traded companies for 2 decades, I've read many 10-Ks. There's usually boilerplate CYA language in SEC filings that essentially says that "past performance may not guarantee future results", particularly in the case of a change in the laws.

I find it hard to believe that "errors in billing" are somehow unfixable by some combination of a change in the laws and/or a change in the processes. I'm not saying that Ruiz isn't addressing a valid existing gap in the process, but that this situation may not be something that is sustainable.

Perhaps, by that time, he will have other products and processes for his company to roll out.
 
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rsa coral gables said:
why haven't these firms gone public? because they cannot. a law firm cannot be owned by someone without a law license.

John is not selling part of his law firm. the SPAC involves a private company that identifies and owns the claims. his firm and others do the work that pursue the claim.
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Correct.

Plus, if you look at the description of the overall business model/process, it seems like the entire process generates as much revenue for his law firm as it does for his proposed public company. Now, the expenses of the law firm and the company may be different, but that is still a massive amount of money for a law firm. So if this thing moves forward, he will have several income streams.

I just have questions (not cynical questions, just curious-as-to-who-will-invest questions) about the sustainability of this "billing glitch" that the business focuses on.
 
Rickd said:
Not a patent .. but APPARENTLY he / his firm .. have developed software to search insurance payments AND IDENTIFY payments that have been made in error by Medicare when a primary / secondary insurer should have covered the procedure. The savings to the US government would be billions annually. Once the new security listing is approved by the securities exchange commission (if it happens!) .. the new stock name MSPR would be listed on NASDAQ .. his initial documentation stated it would be listed based on a PE ratio of 10.5:1 .. and "based on that and the projected earnings his 70% ownership of the firm would have a STOCK VALUE in excess of $20 Billion dollars". THAT IS NOT CASH .. that is restricted stock shares. Generally in a new offering 10-20% of the company is sold .. that creates the trading volume on the exchange. The remaining stock is "restricted" and can be sold in small units only with securities exchange approval .. unless his company is acquired .. then he is bought out. So .. he is wealthy in his own right via his class action law firm .. can personally fund $10 million NIL deals. Things like building a $500 million dollar stadium .. or buying the Dolphins .. are ALL predicated on the securities activities taking place.
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There are already several software/program mechanisms that do this already.

One, as I was familiar with when we kicked the tires decades ago, is used by "ambulance chaser" attorneys to determine if the other side is being truthful as to the extent of their available medical coverages.

I've heard divorce attorneys use a similar dragger program,but have no direct knowledge of that.
 
Katzenboyer said:
Before going any further, I'm absolutely loving what the guy is doing for the program, and hope that it continues. This isn't an attempt to **** on a guy who clearly loves the Canes and is doing all he can to make UM into the power it was in its heyday.

But...is anyone else worried that it's funny money? For reference, I'm talking about this article, that came out in December (think it's behind a paywall). https://www.law.com/dailybusinessre...wyer-john-ruiz-turned-millions-into-billions/

The parts that concern me:



So the company currently doesn't generate any revenue ($800 million in investor funds is not revenue, FWIW), but it's expected to generate $3 billion in revenue next year? And $23 billion in five years? That's pie-in-the-sky stuff.

The other issue is Lionheart Capital, the firm that set up the special acquisition company (SPAC) that is currently valuing MSP Recovery in the billions. Lionheart's (and its CEO, Ophir Sternberg) main claim to fame is that it brought BurgerFi public using the same SPAC it's using to make Ruiz a billionaire. But BurgerFi's founder is suing Lionheart and Sternberg in Miami-Dade, and there are a bunch of other lawsuits against the company for misleading investors (or outright stealing investor money) over the course of the last few years (just do a simple docket search on the Miami-Dade Clerk of Courts; there are a LOT of pending lawsuits against the company and Sternberg individually).

Am I missing something? It just seems to be too good to be true.
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I've been buying SPACs for the last 2 years, practically all of them are no revenue or have a lot of debt to start. A lot are start up companies, 33B is a lofty valuation, but if they hit their projection of 3 billion revenue next year and 23 billion in 5 years they'll be worth their valuation. Everything is forward looking, I'm invested heavy in Lucid Motors since being brought public in a SPAC deal with CCIV with a 25B valuation and no revenue at the time of the deal. I don't see any issues here.
 
Katzenboyer said:
This is partially correct.

The "proprietary software" is not his product. He will not be selling it. It's simply a way of locating claims.

Second, the MSP Recovery Act is rear-looking. Basically, Ruiz's value is in the claims he's pursuing in which insurers are on the hook for payments already made by Medicare/Medicaid. There is value in those claims (although again, I have a very hard time seeing how it's valued in the billions, since the company hasn't generated revenue despite the firm pursuing these claims for years).

But there isn't a huge value in the claims moving forward. This type of practice is no longer happening as much as it has in the past, and certainly not to the point where billions will be pouring in annually.

The other issue is that Ruiz will face stiffening competition. He's not the only firm that handles these types of claims, and the valuation seems to be based off the assumption that he has a monopoly on this work. He doesn't.
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You have it fairly accurate above👆.

What I would add is this:

- Other Health Insurance (as its known) remains a HUGE issue for Medicare/Medicaid/TRICARE as they are ALWAYS secondary payer... ALWAYS
- Put into law via FMRCA of 1962 (going from memory)...allows government to recover costs from OHI AND other third party liabilities for covered beneficiaries
- The singular reason it isnt pursued aggressively, but rather on the beneficiary honor system, is you are calling the beneficiary a liar/stupid/both when it is discovered you have OHI but failed to report it (if I'm not mistaken you dont realize you certify no-OHI on each visit)
- Several years back between all coverage avenues, we estimated TRICARE alone was short $250MM/yr for not getting at all OHI that was available
- Between MEDICARE/MEDICAID/TRICARE, the number is easily $Bs... they just let it slide...


FUN FACT: Under FMRCA, Gov't can hold your car insurance/personal insurance/YOU liable if you cause injuries to a covered beneficiary (say while drunk driving).
 
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