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A name at LB to keep an eye on…

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Coach Macho said:
Linebacker is the least accurately evaluated position in high school football recruiting. (other than QB)

So sometimes you need to throw the rankings out of the window and trust your DC, particularly if he's a LB guy. Nobody knows what he needs for the LB position better than he does.
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I agree with you Macho.
I don’t know jack sht about evaluations.
But we’ve had too many dc’s and lb coaches and even some blue chips and all we have is Spence, Perryman and Shaq?
Unfortunately, the same thing can be said about all the other position groups.

But look at the level of recruitment at the other positions right now.

I will gladly go to the all you can eat Chinese crow buffet if this dude ends up an all American.
 
Maskoff407 said:
Well we’ll see what they look like now. Dukes and company have left. Duke is now coaching in Georgia. So edgewater may have to see if still have it. A few of the guys have left already.
Click to expand...

"Oh Yeah", I wonder we're the kids who left EHS transferred to.

Go Canes
 
pacusmc said:
I agree with you Macho.
I don’t know jack sht about evaluations.
But we’ve had too many dc’s and lb coaches and even some blue chips and all we have is Spence, Perryman and Shaq?
Unfortunately, the same thing can be said about all the other position groups.

But look at the level of recruitment at the other positions right now.

I will gladly go to the all you can eat Chinese crow buffet if this dude ends up an all American.
Click to expand...
Same, Macho is a 99th percentile poster but this same exact thing could have been said when Manny was recruiting Joyner and Flagg and whoever else.
 
pacusmc said:
I agree with you Macho.
I don’t know jack sht about evaluations.
But we’ve had too many dc’s and lb coaches and even some blue chips and all we have is Spence, Perryman and Shaq?
Unfortunately, the same thing can be said about all the other position groups.

But look at the level of recruitment at the other positions right now.

I will gladly go to the all you can eat Chinese crow buffet if this dude ends up an all American.
Click to expand...

For context....these are the highschool positional rankings of the top 15 (out of 21) 2024 drafted LB's; (Position Ranking)

1) Edgerrin Cooper, Texas A&M (9 OLB)
Round 2, Pick 45
2) Junior Colson, Michigan (13 LB)
Round 3, Pick 69
3) Trevin Wallace, Kentucky (5 LB)*
Round 3, Pick 72
4) Bralen Trice, Washington (37 DE)
Round 3, Pick 74
5) Marist Liufau, Notre Dame (26 OLB)
Round 3, Pick 87
6) Ty’Ron Hopper, Missouri (6 OLB)
Round 3, Pick 91
7) Payton Wilson, NC State (4 OLB)*
Round 3, Pick 98
8) Cedric Gray, North Carolina (11 ATH)
Round 4, Pick 106
9) Tyrice Knight, UTEP (unranked)
Round 4, Pick 118
10) Jordan Magee, Temple (2*, 200 ATH)
Round 5, Pick 139

11) JD Bertrand, Notre Dame (18 OLB)
Round 5, Pick 143
12) Tommy Eichenberg, Ohio State (19 ILB)
Round 5, Pick 148
13) Jeremiah Trotter Jr., Clemson (6 LB)*
Round 5, Pick 155
14) Edefuan Ulofoshio, Washington (2*, 196 OLB)
Round 5, Pick 160
15) Jaylan Ford, Texas (68 OLB)
Round 5, Pick 175

Only 3-4 of those guys were arguably top 5 of their position coming out.

To contrast...here's the top 5 ILB/OLB from 2019 and 2020 recruiting classes, and their success level

Justin Flowe (projected UDFA)
Noah Sewell (All-Conference and Freshman of the year)
Demouy Kennedy (never really started, even after transferring colorado from bama)
Jordan Botelho (pretty much a DE/Rush end not a LB, projected day 2 pick)
Wesley Steiner (never really started, transferred twice)
Trenton Simpson (3rd team all ACC, 3rd rounder)
Curtis Jacobs (similar career as Wesley Bissainthe, was an UDFA)
Derek Wingo (started less than 10games in 5 years)
Que Robinson (Started less than 10 games in 4 years)
Mj Sherman (barely played at UGA, started in his 2nd year at Nebraska. only 29 tackles that year)
Lance Dixon (didnt start full time until year 5, transferred from penn to WVU)
Marcel Brooks (never really started , even played WR at one point. Transferred from LSU to KState)
Owen Pappoe (Solid player, 3 year starter but got injured and fell in the draft, 5th rounder)
Henry To'o To'o (All-Conference, 5th rounder)
Cade Stover (Immediately swapped to TE when he went to OSU, solid TE)
Brandon Smith (Started his Soph/Jr year, 4th rounder, 3rd team all-big10)
Nakobe Dean (Butkus Winner)
Christian Harris (Butkus semi-finalist)
De-Gabriel Floyd (ended up JUCO, Texas, then FCS)
Diwun Black (ended up JUCO, Gaytor, then Temple)

All of these players were rated higher than Shaquille Quarterman... but than half of them, I would not even want over Wes.
 
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cowboycane said:
Same, Macho is a 99th percentile poster but this same exact thing could have been said when Manny was recruiting Joyner and Flagg and whoever else.
Click to expand...

A reminder, that in 6 years at Miami...the best LB Manny recruited, was Corey Flagg (who was also the lowest ranked backer he recruited the whole time he was here). Wes would be a decent claim, but he didn't even commit to Miami until Mario was hired.
This is not counting Shaq, Mike, or Zach who were all originally targeted and committed to Al Golden.
 
cowboycane said:
Same, Macho is a 99th percentile poster but this same exact thing could have been said when Manny was recruiting Joyner and Flagg and whoever else.
Click to expand...
I hear what yall saying but Manny isn't a Linebacker savant IMO and both of those kids showed mid athleticism and length on film. They were thick ankled "thumpers".

This particular kid has plus length and plus athleticism.

It's easier to teach a kid how to play Linebacker than it is to teach a kid how to be athletic enough. Hetherman feels like he can coach them up.

I guess we'll all just have to wait and see.
 
Astcloud11 said:
For context....these are the highschool positional rankings of the top 15 (out of 21) 2024 drafted LB's; (Position Ranking)

1) Edgerrin Cooper, Texas A&M (9 OLB)
Round 2, Pick 45
2) Junior Colson, Michigan (13 LB)
Round 3, Pick 69
3) Trevin Wallace, Kentucky (5 LB)*
Round 3, Pick 72
4) Bralen Trice, Washington (37 DE)
Round 3, Pick 74
5) Marist Liufau, Notre Dame (26 OLB)
Round 3, Pick 87
6) Ty’Ron Hopper, Missouri (6 OLB)
Round 3, Pick 91
7) Payton Wilson, NC State (4 OLB)*
Round 3, Pick 98
8) Cedric Gray, North Carolina (11 ATH)
Round 4, Pick 106
9) Tyrice Knight, UTEP (unranked)
Round 4, Pick 118
10) Jordan Magee, Temple (2*, 200 ATH)
Round 5, Pick 139

11) JD Bertrand, Notre Dame (18 OLB)
Round 5, Pick 143
12) Tommy Eichenberg, Ohio State (19 ILB)
Round 5, Pick 148
13) Jeremiah Trotter Jr., Clemson (6 LB)*
Round 5, Pick 155
14) Edefuan Ulofoshio, Washington (2*, 196 OLB)
Round 5, Pick 160
15) Jaylan Ford, Texas (68 OLB)
Round 5, Pick 175

Only 3-4 of those guys were arguably top 5 of their position coming out.

To contrast...here's the top 5 ILB/OLB from 2019 and 2020 recruiting classes, and their success level

Justin Flowe (projected UDFA)
Noah Sewell (All-Conference and Freshman of the year)
Demouy Kennedy (never really started, even after transferring colorado from bama)
Jordan Botelho (pretty much a DE/Rush end not a LB, projected day 2 pick)
Wesley Steiner (never really started, transferred twice)
Trenton Simpson (3rd team all ACC, 3rd rounder)
Curtis Jacobs (similar career as Wesley Bissainthe, was an UDFA)
Derek Wingo (started less than 10games in 5 years)
Que Robinson (Started less than 10 games in 4 years)
Mj Sherman (barely played at UGA, started in his 2nd year at Nebraska. only 29 tackles that year)
Lance Dixon (didnt start full time until year 5, transferred from penn to WVU)
Marcel Brooks (never really started , even played WR at one point. Transferred from LSU to KState)
Owen Pappoe (Solid player, 3 year starter but got injured and fell in the draft, 5th rounder)
Henry To'o To'o (All-Conference, 5th rounder)
Cade Stover (Immediately swapped to TE when he went to OSU, solid TE)
Brandon Smith (Started his Soph/Jr year, 4th rounder, 3rd team all-big10)
Nakobe Dean (Butkus Winner)
Christian Harris (Butkus semi-finalist)
De-Gabriel Floyd (ended up JUCO, Texas, then FCS)
Diwun Black (ended up JUCO, Gaytor, then Temple)

All of these players were rated higher than Shaquille Quarterman... but than half of them, I would not even want over Wes.
Click to expand...
No one is running around saying we shouldn’t go after the elite blue chips of course, but this is good perspective to add

Thanks
 
I see the vision. Long strider when he closes, which tracks with a high-cut build. Long arms. Not really a natural “striker” doesn’t always roll hips or accelerate through contact. Plays like he grew up a skill player and is still growing into his frame/the position. If he’s in the high 4.5s while still developing physically, he’ll probably get faster in college. Heatherman is probably banking on developing his tackling technique. Not mad at this for a developmental guy who can help on specials
 
Astcloud11 said:
For context....these are the highschool positional rankings of the top 15 (out of 21) 2024 drafted LB's; (Position Ranking)

1) Edgerrin Cooper, Texas A&M (9 OLB)
Round 2, Pick 45
2) Junior Colson, Michigan (13 LB)
Round 3, Pick 69
3) Trevin Wallace, Kentucky (5 LB)*
Round 3, Pick 72
4) Bralen Trice, Washington (37 DE)
Round 3, Pick 74
5) Marist Liufau, Notre Dame (26 OLB)
Round 3, Pick 87
6) Ty’Ron Hopper, Missouri (6 OLB)
Round 3, Pick 91
7) Payton Wilson, NC State (4 OLB)*
Round 3, Pick 98
8) Cedric Gray, North Carolina (11 ATH)
Round 4, Pick 106
9) Tyrice Knight, UTEP (unranked)
Round 4, Pick 118
10) Jordan Magee, Temple (2*, 200 ATH)
Round 5, Pick 139

11) JD Bertrand, Notre Dame (18 OLB)
Round 5, Pick 143
12) Tommy Eichenberg, Ohio State (19 ILB)
Round 5, Pick 148
13) Jeremiah Trotter Jr., Clemson (6 LB)*
Round 5, Pick 155
14) Edefuan Ulofoshio, Washington (2*, 196 OLB)
Round 5, Pick 160
15) Jaylan Ford, Texas (68 OLB)
Round 5, Pick 175

Only 3-4 of those guys were arguably top 5 of their position coming out.

To contrast...here's the top 5 ILB/OLB from 2019 and 2020 recruiting classes, and their success level

Justin Flowe (projected UDFA)
Noah Sewell (All-Conference and Freshman of the year)
Demouy Kennedy (never really started, even after transferring colorado from bama)
Jordan Botelho (pretty much a DE/Rush end not a LB, projected day 2 pick)
Wesley Steiner (never really started, transferred twice)
Trenton Simpson (3rd team all ACC, 3rd rounder)
Curtis Jacobs (similar career as Wesley Bissainthe, was an UDFA)
Derek Wingo (started less than 10games in 5 years)
Que Robinson (Started less than 10 games in 4 years)
Mj Sherman (barely played at UGA, started in his 2nd year at Nebraska. only 29 tackles that year)
Lance Dixon (didnt start full time until year 5, transferred from penn to WVU)
Marcel Brooks (never really started , even played WR at one point. Transferred from LSU to KState)
Owen Pappoe (Solid player, 3 year starter but got injured and fell in the draft, 5th rounder)
Henry To'o To'o (All-Conference, 5th rounder)
Cade Stover (Immediately swapped to TE when he went to OSU, solid TE)
Brandon Smith (Started his Soph/Jr year, 4th rounder, 3rd team all-big10)
Nakobe Dean (Butkus Winner)
Christian Harris (Butkus semi-finalist)
De-Gabriel Floyd (ended up JUCO, Texas, then FCS)
Diwun Black (ended up JUCO, Gaytor, then Temple)

All of these players were rated higher than Shaquille Quarterman... but than half of them, I would not even want over Wes.
Click to expand...
This concept has been discussed plenty of times.
These 2 or 3 stars from lower rated schools that end up in the nfl are a crap shoot.
If some dude from liberty ends up a second rounder, It’s not Because the linebacker coach knew it when he recruited him or had some magic formula in evaluating or developing players.

Boston college did not see nfl super star talent when they recruited Kuechly.

Also, just because a dude doesn’t get drafted or gets drafted lower than his projected star rating, doesn’t mean he wasn’t a key piece on that defense.

Even a 5th or a 6th round draft pick is hard to replace.
We’ve had a hard replacing RayShawn Jenkins and Sheldrick Redwine and even that grad transfer from Texas.

An nfl draft pick is not a jag because he went 6th round. Or squeezed out 6 nfl years after being an udfa.

Also, not all undrafted players are the same. If you’re telling me that an undrafted bama olineman is the same caliber of player than some of the oline guys that we had when cmr was here, then we can agree to disagree.

It’s not the individual player. It’s the collective of size speed and talent that everyone keeps ignoring.

How many people knew it was over the first series when we opened up against bama. The size and speed difference was so obvious. But they did not have all 22 drafted. But their undrafted players were more talented and rated higher than almost all of our team.



So while idk if this kid will be a day 1 or 2 pick, I would feel more comfortable in having a guy who’s projection is higher playing along side other guys who’s projection is very high as well.
It’s a formula that’s very difficult to debate against. It’s what bama, osu and uga and now Oregon are and have been doing.

Nobody and their mamma hired central Michigan’s receiver coach because he recognized and developed Antonio brown.

But Ohio state gets. All the credit about receiver development while hogging up the top receivers every year.

Hartline taught J Smith ABSOLUTELY NOTHING !! Dude got there day one and took a starting spot by February.

If Heatherman had a track record of draft picks then yeah I’d buy that stock.

if this was some o line guy then yeah I’d stay quiet cause the proof of concept is there from Mirabal and CMC.
 
htownkidd said:
Just a heads up, ya’ll may not know this but just because a kid is 197 as a JR in HS…doesn’t mean he will be 197 in September of his FR year in college.

**** I’m glad the 6’1 is verified and he isn’t really 5’10 3/4. He could have arms that hang down to his knees and have the frame to be 230 by the end of his FR season.
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Jit gotta **** near 6’8” wingspan. He’s good with that length(pause). He ain’t 6’3”, but he ain’t sawed off, shows great eye discipline and can fly…
 
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pacusmc said:
This concept has been discussed plenty of times.
These 2 or 3 stars from lower rated schools that end up in the nfl are a crap shoot.
If some dude from liberty ends up a second rounder, It’s not Because the linebacker coach knew it when he recruited him or had some magic formula in evaluating or developing players.

Boston college did not see nfl super star talent when they recruited Kuechly.

Also, just because a dude doesn’t get drafted or gets drafted lower than his projected star rating, doesn’t mean he wasn’t a key piece on that defense.

Even a 5th or a 6th round draft pick is hard to replace.
We’ve had a hard replacing RayShawn Jenkins and Sheldrick Redwine and even that grad transfer from Texas.

An nfl draft pick is not a jag because he went 6th round. Or squeezed out 6 nfl years after being an udfa.

Also, not all undrafted players are the same. If you’re telling me that an undrafted bama olineman is the same caliber of player than some of the oline guys that we had when cmr was here, then we can agree to disagree.

It’s not the individual player. It’s the collective of size speed and talent that everyone keeps ignoring.

How many people knew it was over the first series when we opened up against bama. The size and speed difference was so obvious. But they did not have all 22 drafted. But their undrafted players were more talented and rated higher than almost all of our team.



So while idk if this kid will be a day 1 or 2 pick, I would feel more comfortable in having a guy who’s projection is higher playing along side other guys who’s projection is very high as well.
It’s a formula that’s very difficult to debate against. It’s what bama, osu and uga and now Oregon are and have been doing.

Nobody and their mamma hired central Michigan’s receiver coach because he recognized and developed Antonio brown.

But Ohio state gets. All the credit about receiver development while hogging up the top receivers every year.

Hartline taught J Smith ABSOLUTELY NOTHING !! Dude got there day one and took a starting spot by February.

If Heatherman had a track record of draft picks then yeah I’d buy that stock.

if this was some o line guy then yeah I’d stay quiet cause the proof of concept is there from Mirabal and CMC.
Click to expand...

Has anyone looked at DCs and LB coaches who have high hit rates on LBs over time? I would bet there are key characteristics that are better markers for success than their class ranking by guys like Ivins and Power. For example, 40 times, shuttle (cone drill?), short area burst (vertical and broad jump?).

No LB expert. But I definitely know what I don't like when watching HUDL. Pass rush specialists are almost always too stiff to change direction like a playoff-level LB needs to do. Box-thumpers that don't drop into pass pro on their highlights don't translate. Guys that don't flow to the ball or are unenthusiastic tacklers. Conversely, a kid who can cover, has great length, likes to lay the wood, hawks the ball carrier, can flip his hips in horizontal and vertical situations, these guys who also have the raw athletic traits are guys I want.

At the end of the day, we have to hope Hetherman knows how to spot talent. It was hit or miss with DNic and shockingly with Strong.
 
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