2018 DT Michael Thompson

[BoxingRobes]

First of all, my point was that Golden in fact left a deep DL. And some of our Ends have lined up inside on passing downs. But if we focus solely on interior guys, then Golden left McIntosh, Norton, Willis, Moten, Courtel Jenkins and Fines. That ain’t bad at all. It’s better than Richt would be leaving now if he skipped town. To complete the earlier point, Golden also left AQM, Patchan and Joe Jackson as a commitment at End (not mentioned above).

And by Year 3, only Willis would be left. This is the problem, there is no depth or consistency in recruiting the position adequately and Richt in his first two years hasn't exactly made up for it. Golden left talent, but his last two classes were loaded with interior line because of his inability to get them in previous years.

With that said, the best he left on the interior was an ACC Third teamer and Honorable Mention (since, as you list below, you don't like draft projection). Stretching it to DE, again, some honorable mention players. I like them subjectively, but objectively, you'd be hard pressed to convince me that what Golden left was some riches. Jenkins left, Fines left and never played anyway and Willis...I understand the talent, but what has he given us yet? Moten was a good soldier backup, and the starters, as mentioned...they are varying degrees of good. PFF was likely the high man on McIntosh according to their metric.

In summary...I think you're overrating the talent and definitely the depth to frame your argument.

This is clearly false. The idea that NFL potential is what we are supposed to be generating is part of what has so tanked this program. Guys can be very good college players but not first round nfl prospects. Heisman wnner Gino Toretta was that. Ken Dorsey was. Using the nfl draft to validate whether a kid was a good recruit or not misses the point of college football, which is to win the games, not generate pros.

Norton is absolutely an example of something positive from Golden. That is indisputable by anyone. And I write this as a person who couldn’t stand Golden. But Norton has played since his true frosh year, and been an important part of a D that has helped us progress as a team the past two years. He may not be as good as his accolytes hope, but that doesn’t define him. He was not a top ranked kid. Golden recruited and signed him. Those are facts.

You make a similar comment in the first quote I posted also, just broader than Norton. Sorry, but IMO you’re just way off in your view of these guys as it relates to the NFL. McIntosh, Norton, Thomas, Harris, D. Jax, etc. ... that is a very good college line. If your standard for recruiting is all high NFL draft picks, you’re going to be disappointed and despite that, we could do fine while you’re disappointed.

Even if you look at college accolades, production, etc.

You are subjectively overrating the talent. Objectively, your mileage is going to vary on how to rate them, especially Norton. Looking like a mid-late round pick...honorable mention all-conference player. Either way, none of the above outside of Chad Thomas (and this is getting away from the main point) is someone that can compete with the talent on Ohio State, Alabama, Clemson, and other top teams in the country. Miami's line as currently constructed can not compete with the best. Its 2018 construction, can't compete with the best.

I'm never ok with "fine"...so...color me disappointed.

You are trying too hard.

Golden left Richt with 3 years of Norton, McIntosh and Willis. Two years of Moten. Two of Jenkins iirc (think he left with a year to go). What more do you expect? It isn’t Golden’s fault that Jenkins left, or Norton and McIntosh may leave early. Blaming him for that is dumb. And Norton and McIntosh as seniors backed up by would absolutely be a good interior DL — better than most or perhaps all that we’ve had since Butch’s guys left.

Look, I can’t stand Golden and I agree people overrate talent and fail to see what is needed to cmpete with Alabama. But you can go too far in your retort as well, and IMO you have done so. We have bigger problems as a roster and program than the DL golden left.

There is no try hard here...its not even a bash Golden topic...its not just about the DL Golden left...its about a series of coaches that have a similar pattern of underrecruiting defensive line, especially the interior. There is some talent...sure...but the depth, especially quality depth, isn't there. Golden extended a trend that started before he got here...and we are starting to see the same develop under Richt. Which is the point. There is no need to try hard. The numbers are the numbers. There needs to be a quota and they aren't meeting it. Golden was used as an example because to fill numbers he would scramble last minute to acquire luke warm bodies. It feels as though, in Richt's third class, we are just about arriving to that train station.

Just a question how many Interior DL is expected per class and expected to be on the roster at a time?

Per class...3-4.
add that up and it covers for some modest attrition over 4-5 years.
Elite teams...those 3-4 should be 5* and 4*. Occasional 3* that has been eval'd that you are confident in.

 

[valid]

forget about Thompson, Carson, or any other DT on the board. just pray we can hang on to Nesta.

 

[ShadowSpring]

And by Year 3, only Willis would be left. This is the problem, there is no depth or consistency in recruiting the position adequately and Richt in his first two years hasn't exactly made up for it. Golden left talent, but his last two classes were loaded with interior line because of his inability to get them in previous years.

With that said, the best he left on the interior was an ACC Third teamer and Honorable Mention (since, as you list below, you don't like draft projection). Stretching it to DE, again, some honorable mention players. I like them subjectively, but objectively, you'd be hard pressed to convince me that what Golden left was some riches. Jenkins left, Fines left and never played anyway and Willis...I understand the talent, but what has he given us yet? Moten was a good soldier backup, and the starters, as mentioned...they are varying degrees of good. PFF was likely the high man on McIntosh according to their metric.

In summary...I think you're overrating the talent and definitely the depth to frame your argument.



Even if you look at college accolades, production, etc.

You are subjectively overrating the talent. Objectively, your mileage is going to vary on how to rate them, especially Norton. Looking like a mid-late round pick...honorable mention all-conference player. Either way, none of the above outside of Chad Thomas (and this is getting away from the main point) is someone that can compete with the talent on Ohio State, Alabama, Clemson, and other top teams in the country. Miami's line as currently constructed can not compete with the best. Its 2018 construction, can't compete with the best.

I'm never ok with "fine"...so...color me disappointed.

You are trying too hard.

Golden left Richt with 3 years of Norton, McIntosh and Willis. Two years of Moten. Two of Jenkins iirc (think he left with a year to go). What more do you expect? It isn’t Golden’s fault that Jenkins left, or Norton and McIntosh may leave early. Blaming him for that is dumb. And Norton and McIntosh as seniors backed up by would absolutely be a good interior DL — better than most or perhaps all that we’ve had since Butch’s guys left.

Look, I can’t stand Golden and I agree people overrate talent and fail to see what is needed to cmpete with Alabama. But you can go too far in your retort as well, and IMO you have done so. We have bigger problems as a roster and program than the DL golden left.

There is no try hard here...its not even a bash Golden topic...its not just about the DL Golden left...its about a series of coaches that have a similar pattern of underrecruiting defensive line, especially the interior. There is some talent...sure...but the depth, especially quality depth, isn't there. Golden extended a trend that started before he got here...and we are starting to see the same develop under Richt. Which is the point. There is no need to try hard. The numbers are the numbers. There needs to be a quota and they aren't meeting it. Golden was used as an example because to fill numbers he would scramble last minute to acquire luke warm bodies. It feels as though, in Richt's third class, we are just about arriving to that train station.

Just a question how many Interior DL is expected per class and expected to be on the roster at a time?

Per class...3-4.
add that up and it covers for some modest attrition over 4-5 years.
Elite teams...those 3-4 should be 5* and 4*. Occasional 3* that has been eval'd that you are confident in.

That number is not realistic. UGA and Alabama have 12-13 total DL. FSU has 15 with a couple walk-ons. Auburn has 12. USC has 11. Clemson has 15.

This season we had 15 DL on our roster, 8 of those are DT's. After this off-season we will have 10 if Norton and RJ stay. 8 if they leave with 4 being DT's (too few for sure).

3 DT's per class would be 12 DT's on the roster at a given time. <2 per year after attrition is ideal and 6-7 on a roster is perfect.

Rousseau, Nesta, and Chatfield seem almost certain to sign. That puts us worse case (Norton and RJ leave) at 11 DL and 5 DT's. Best case 13 DL and 7 DT's.

Given these numbers if we can sign 2 more DT's and maybe 1 more DE we'd be in perfect position. Not exactly a huge ask to finish with a few more. None of Kul's targets at DT have signed yet.

Briggs
Carson (in a good spot, had a great visit and he is a good kid, very concerned with helping the needy, Pastor Richt wheelhouse)
Thompson

 

[westcoastcanes]

You are trying too hard.

Golden left Richt with 3 years of Norton, McIntosh and Willis. Two years of Moten. Two of Jenkins iirc (think he left with a year to go). What more do you expect? It isn’t Golden’s fault that Jenkins left, or Norton and McIntosh may leave early. Blaming him for that is dumb. And Norton and McIntosh as seniors backed up by would absolutely be a good interior DL — better than most or perhaps all that we’ve had since Butch’s guys left.

Look, I can’t stand Golden and I agree people overrate talent and fail to see what is needed to cmpete with Alabama. But you can go too far in your retort as well, and IMO you have done so. We have bigger problems as a roster and program than the DL golden left.

There is no try hard here...its not even a bash Golden topic...its not just about the DL Golden left...its about a series of coaches that have a similar pattern of underrecruiting defensive line, especially the interior. There is some talent...sure...but the depth, especially quality depth, isn't there. Golden extended a trend that started before he got here...and we are starting to see the same develop under Richt. Which is the point. There is no need to try hard. The numbers are the numbers. There needs to be a quota and they aren't meeting it. Golden was used as an example because to fill numbers he would scramble last minute to acquire luke warm bodies. It feels as though, in Richt's third class, we are just about arriving to that train station.

Just a question how many Interior DL is expected per class and expected to be on the roster at a time?

Per class...3-4.
add that up and it covers for some modest attrition over 4-5 years.
Elite teams...those 3-4 should be 5* and 4*. Occasional 3* that has been eval'd that you are confident in.

That number is not realistic. UGA and Alabama have 12-13 total DL. FSU has 15 with a couple walk-ons. Auburn has 12. USC has 11. Clemson has 15.

This season we had 15 DL on our roster, 8 of those are DT's. After this off-season we will have 10 if Norton and RJ stay. 8 if they leave with 4 being DT's (too few for sure).

3 DT's per class would be 12 DT's on the roster at a given time. <2 per year after attrition is ideal and 6-7 on a roster is perfect.

Rousseau, Nesta, and Chatfield seem almost certain to sign. That puts us worse case (Norton and RJ leave) at 11 DL and 5 DT's. Best case 13 DL and 7 DT's.

Given these numbers if we can sign 2 more DT's and maybe 1 more DE we'd be in perfect position. Not exactly a huge ask to finish with a few more. None of Kul's targets at DT have signed yet.

Briggs
Carson (in a good spot, had a great visit and he is a good kid, very concerned with helping the needy, Pastor Richt wheelhouse)
Thompson

His question was DL, not DT, so inclusive of DE. 2 DT and 2 DE per season is about right. You lose depth to injury, transfer, graduation, disciplinary and early draft entry. while a 5 year cycle of 4 per year is 20, that leaves 13-16 active which is just right.


RJ and Norton are leaving, 8 is unreasonably thin, there should have been 3 more DL over the last two classes, two more this class.

Looking ahead to next year we lose Willis (if he even plays this year), Djax to graduation, and could lose joe jackson to early entry. The idea of only 5 of the current enrolled defensive linemans on the roster also being on the 2019 roster is concerning.

 

[Miami Nights]

Not surprised. Chit you think rich was going to the spreads but then he recruits a qb like ****cowski and it leaves you wondering wtf is this dude trying to do. I don't think he even knows. Needs to figure out what kinds offense he wants to run an d go with it. Been a coach too long to be this confused

Lol another clown poRst. Obviously Coach Richt saw potential in Sitkowski, continued to evaluate him his senior year, didn't like what he saw and moved on...wtf are u talking about joker?

jisut the fact that he recruited him dummy is what I'm talking bout

 

[BoxingRobes]

You are trying too hard.

Golden left Richt with 3 years of Norton, McIntosh and Willis. Two years of Moten. Two of Jenkins iirc (think he left with a year to go). What more do you expect? It isn’t Golden’s fault that Jenkins left, or Norton and McIntosh may leave early. Blaming him for that is dumb. And Norton and McIntosh as seniors backed up by would absolutely be a good interior DL — better than most or perhaps all that we’ve had since Butch’s guys left.

Look, I can’t stand Golden and I agree people overrate talent and fail to see what is needed to cmpete with Alabama. But you can go too far in your retort as well, and IMO you have done so. We have bigger problems as a roster and program than the DL golden left.

There is no try hard here...its not even a bash Golden topic...its not just about the DL Golden left...its about a series of coaches that have a similar pattern of underrecruiting defensive line, especially the interior. There is some talent...sure...but the depth, especially quality depth, isn't there. Golden extended a trend that started before he got here...and we are starting to see the same develop under Richt. Which is the point. There is no need to try hard. The numbers are the numbers. There needs to be a quota and they aren't meeting it. Golden was used as an example because to fill numbers he would scramble last minute to acquire luke warm bodies. It feels as though, in Richt's third class, we are just about arriving to that train station.

Just a question how many Interior DL is expected per class and expected to be on the roster at a time?

Per class...3-4.
add that up and it covers for some modest attrition over 4-5 years.
Elite teams...those 3-4 should be 5* and 4*. Occasional 3* that has been eval'd that you are confident in.

That number is not realistic. UGA and Alabama have 12-13 total DL. FSU has 15 with a couple walk-ons. Auburn has 12. USC has 11. Clemson has 15.

This season we had 15 DL on our roster, 8 of those are DT's. After this off-season we will have 10 if Norton and RJ stay. 8 if they leave with 4 being DT's (too few for sure).

3 DT's per class would be 12 DT's on the roster at a given time. <2 per year after attrition is ideal and 6-7 on a roster is perfect.

Rousseau, Nesta, and Chatfield seem almost certain to sign. That puts us worse case (Norton and RJ leave) at 11 DL and 5 DT's. Best case 13 DL and 7 DT's.

Given these numbers if we can sign 2 more DT's and maybe 1 more DE we'd be in perfect position. Not exactly a huge ask to finish with a few more. None of Kul's targets at DT have signed yet.

Briggs
Carson (in a good spot, had a great visit and he is a good kid, very concerned with helping the needy, Pastor Richt wheelhouse)
Thompson

#1 - You need you account for attrition every year as a recruiter, evaluator, and program builder. So, recruiting 3-4 per year does not mean you will have 12-16 or whatever on your roster...you need to understand many of those are going to fall by the wayside. Injuries, transfers, so deep on the bench you forget they exist, etc.

#2 - Need fluctuates between interior and outside. Some years are heavy on the interior, others heavy on the outside. When I say "interior DL" usually, per 247, it will mean DT and SDE. So, 3-4 DT and/or SDE.

numbers from 247...total DL...only because SDE/DT/WDE position doesn't always translate...but to ultimately make a point...

Alabama
2018 - 5* (1) 4* (4) 3* (0) - 5 Total
2017 - 5* (1) 4* (2) 3* (0) - 3 Total
2016 - 5* (0) 4* (4) 3* (1) - 5 Total
2015 - 5* (1) 4* (2) 3* (2) - 5 Total

Total - 5* (3) 4* (12) 3* (3) - 18 Total

Clemson
2018 - 5* (2) 4* (2) 3* (1) - 5 Total
2017 - 5* (0) 4* (3) 3* (0) - 3 Total
2016 - 5* (1) 4* (2) 3* (1) - 4 Total
2015 - 5* (1) 4* (3) 3* (3) - 7 Total

Total - 5* (4) 4* (10) 3* (5) - 19 Total

Ohio State
2018 - 5* (1) 4* (3) 3* (1) - 5 Total
2017 - 5* (1) 4* (2) 3* (0) - 3 Total
2016 - 5* (1) 4* (2) 3* (0) - 3 Total
2015 - 5* (0) 4* (2) 3* (4) - 6 Total

Total - 5* (3) 4* (9) 3* (5) - 17 Total

Now compare that to Miami...

Miami
2018 - 5* (0) 4* (1) 3* (1) - 2 Total
2017 - 5* (0) 4* (2) 3* (1) - 3 Total
2016 - 5* (0) 4* (2) 3* (1) - 3 Total
2015 - 5* (0) 4* (0) 3* (3) - 3 Total

Total - 5* (0) 4* (5) 3* (6) - 11 Total

I think you can pick up what I am putting down. The valley between Miami and the best in the country is massive right now in the most important position group. Numbers AND quality just aren't there and its not like its gotten better under Richt.

 

[orange&green84]

There is no try hard here...its not even a bash Golden topic...its not just about the DL Golden left...its about a series of coaches that have a similar pattern of underrecruiting defensive line, especially the interior. There is some talent...sure...but the depth, especially quality depth, isn't there. Golden extended a trend that started before he got here...and we are starting to see the same develop under Richt. Which is the point. There is no need to try hard. The numbers are the numbers. There needs to be a quota and they aren't meeting it. Golden was used as an example because to fill numbers he would scramble last minute to acquire luke warm bodies. It feels as though, in Richt's third class, we are just about arriving to that train station.

Just a question how many Interior DL is expected per class and expected to be on the roster at a time?

Per class...3-4.
add that up and it covers for some modest attrition over 4-5 years.
Elite teams...those 3-4 should be 5* and 4*. Occasional 3* that has been eval'd that you are confident in.

That number is not realistic. UGA and Alabama have 12-13 total DL. FSU has 15 with a couple walk-ons. Auburn has 12. USC has 11. Clemson has 15.

This season we had 15 DL on our roster, 8 of those are DT's. After this off-season we will have 10 if Norton and RJ stay. 8 if they leave with 4 being DT's (too few for sure).

3 DT's per class would be 12 DT's on the roster at a given time. <2 per year after attrition is ideal and 6-7 on a roster is perfect.

Rousseau, Nesta, and Chatfield seem almost certain to sign. That puts us worse case (Norton and RJ leave) at 11 DL and 5 DT's. Best case 13 DL and 7 DT's.

Given these numbers if we can sign 2 more DT's and maybe 1 more DE we'd be in perfect position. Not exactly a huge ask to finish with a few more. None of Kul's targets at DT have signed yet.

Briggs
Carson (in a good spot, had a great visit and he is a good kid, very concerned with helping the needy, Pastor Richt wheelhouse)
Thompson

#1 - You need you account for attrition every year as a recruiter, evaluator, and program builder. So, recruiting 3-4 per year does not mean you will have 12-16 or whatever on your roster...you need to understand many of those are going to fall by the wayside. Injuries, transfers, so deep on the bench you forget they exist, etc.

#2 - Need fluctuates between interior and outside. Some years are heavy on the interior, others heavy on the outside. When I say "interior DL" usually, per 247, it will mean DT and SDE. So, 3-4 DT and/or SDE.

numbers from 247...total DL...only because SDE/DT/WDE position doesn't always translate...but to ultimately make a point...

Alabama
2018 - 5* (1) 4* (4) 3* (0) - 5 Total
2017 - 5* (1) 4* (2) 3* (0) - 3 Total
2016 - 5* (0) 4* (4) 3* (1) - 5 Total
2015 - 5* (1) 4* (2) 3* (2) - 5 Total

Total - 5* (3) 4* (12) 3* (3) - 18 Total

Clemson
2018 - 5* (2) 4* (2) 3* (1) - 5 Total
2017 - 5* (0) 4* (3) 3* (0) - 3 Total
2016 - 5* (1) 4* (2) 3* (1) - 4 Total
2015 - 5* (1) 4* (3) 3* (3) - 7 Total

Total - 5* (4) 4* (10) 3* (5) - 19 Total

Ohio State
2018 - 5* (1) 4* (3) 3* (1) - 5 Total
2017 - 5* (1) 4* (2) 3* (0) - 3 Total
2016 - 5* (1) 4* (2) 3* (0) - 3 Total
2015 - 5* (0) 4* (2) 3* (4) - 6 Total

Total - 5* (3) 4* (9) 3* (5) - 17 Total

Now compare that to Miami...

Miami
2018 - 5* (0) 4* (1) 3* (1) - 2 Total
2017 - 5* (0) 4* (2) 3* (1) - 3 Total
2016 - 5* (0) 4* (2) 3* (1) - 3 Total
2015 - 5* (0) 4* (0) 3* (3) - 3 Total

Total - 5* (0) 4* (5) 3* (6) - 11 Total

I think you can pick up what I am putting down. The valley between Miami and the best in the country is massive right now in the most important position group. Numbers AND quality just aren't there and its not like its gotten better under Richt.

Good write up and providing statistical analysis of what some have been saying in terms of d-line recruiting. If we want to catch up to the teams you pulled the numbers for; d-line is the unit that needs to catch up in terms of number.

 

[deleted19425]

It would be nice to land Thompson but less be real right quick, Nesta is on another level

That man is a demon ! Nesta finna be raising **** on green tree. That young man is cut different.

 

[Dawgcane]

Fwiw, richt has been criticized by Georgia fans over the years by inconsistently (and sometimes poorly) recruiting QBs and linemen.

QB’s? Really?

Yep. We’ve had many discussions on this board about richt’s inconsistent qb recruiting over the last 10 years. Not a lot of success stories there over the past 10 years.

You may not of heard of Jacob Eason, but kid was signed in Richt's last class at Ga, think he was the top ranked QB that year.

 

[skeeter]

Fwiw, richt has been criticized by Georgia fans over the years by inconsistently (and sometimes poorly) recruiting QBs and linemen.

QB’s? Really?

Yep. We’ve had many discussions on this board about richt’s inconsistent qb recruiting over the last 10 years. Not a lot of success stories there over the past 10 years.

You may not of heard of Jacob Eason, but kid was signed in Richt's last class at Ga, think he was the top ranked QB that year.

And it's not like he was a scrub either. Eason flashed big time last year

 

[Mico Jones]

Fwiw, richt has been criticized by Georgia fans over the years by inconsistently (and sometimes poorly) recruiting QBs and linemen.

QB’s? Really?

Yep. We’ve had many discussions on this board about richt’s inconsistent qb recruiting over the last 10 years. Not a lot of success stories there over the past 10 years.

You may not of heard of Jacob Eason, but kid was signed in Richt's last class at Ga, think he was the top ranked QB that year.

Yeah not to mention Stafford.

 

[AUcane]

Fwiw, richt has been criticized by Georgia fans over the years by inconsistently (and sometimes poorly) recruiting QBs and linemen.

QB’s? Really?

Yep. We’ve had many discussions on this board about richt’s inconsistent qb recruiting over the last 10 years. Not a lot of success stories there over the past 10 years.

You may not of heard of Jacob Eason, but kid was signed in Richt's last class at Ga, think he was the top ranked QB that year.

10 years of signing QBs and we have Murray and stafford as success stories. Eason - for now - is unproven and beaten out by a true freshman.

 

[87FireCane]

forget about Thompson, Carson, or any other DT on the board. just pray we can hang on to Nesta.

 

[Mico Jones]

Fwiw, richt has been criticized by Georgia fans over the years by inconsistently (and sometimes poorly) recruiting QBs and linemen.

QB’s? Really?

Yep. We’ve had many discussions on this board about richt’s inconsistent qb recruiting over the last 10 years. Not a lot of success stories there over the past 10 years.

You may not of heard of Jacob Eason, but kid was signed in Richt's last class at Ga, think he was the top ranked QB that year.

10 years of signing QBs and we have Murray and stafford as success stories. Eason - for now - is unproven and beaten out by a true freshman.

A college athlete's career is 3 to 5 years.

 

[ShadowSpring]

There is no try hard here...its not even a bash Golden topic...its not just about the DL Golden left...its about a series of coaches that have a similar pattern of underrecruiting defensive line, especially the interior. There is some talent...sure...but the depth, especially quality depth, isn't there. Golden extended a trend that started before he got here...and we are starting to see the same develop under Richt. Which is the point. There is no need to try hard. The numbers are the numbers. There needs to be a quota and they aren't meeting it. Golden was used as an example because to fill numbers he would scramble last minute to acquire luke warm bodies. It feels as though, in Richt's third class, we are just about arriving to that train station.

Just a question how many Interior DL is expected per class and expected to be on the roster at a time?

Per class...3-4.
add that up and it covers for some modest attrition over 4-5 years.
Elite teams...those 3-4 should be 5* and 4*. Occasional 3* that has been eval'd that you are confident in.

That number is not realistic. UGA and Alabama have 12-13 total DL. FSU has 15 with a couple walk-ons. Auburn has 12. USC has 11. Clemson has 15.

This season we had 15 DL on our roster, 8 of those are DT's. After this off-season we will have 10 if Norton and RJ stay. 8 if they leave with 4 being DT's (too few for sure).

3 DT's per class would be 12 DT's on the roster at a given time. <2 per year after attrition is ideal and 6-7 on a roster is perfect.

Rousseau, Nesta, and Chatfield seem almost certain to sign. That puts us worse case (Norton and RJ leave) at 11 DL and 5 DT's. Best case 13 DL and 7 DT's.

Given these numbers if we can sign 2 more DT's and maybe 1 more DE we'd be in perfect position. Not exactly a huge ask to finish with a few more. None of Kul's targets at DT have signed yet.

Briggs
Carson (in a good spot, had a great visit and he is a good kid, very concerned with helping the needy, Pastor Richt wheelhouse)
Thompson

His question was DL, not DT, so inclusive of DE. 2 DT and 2 DE per season is about right. You lose depth to injury, transfer, graduation, disciplinary and early draft entry. while a 5 year cycle of 4 per year is 20, that leaves 13-16 active which is just right.


RJ and Norton are leaving, 8 is unreasonably thin, there should have been 3 more DL over the last two classes, two more this class.

Looking ahead to next year we lose Willis (if he even plays this year), Djax to graduation, and could lose joe jackson to early entry. The idea of only 5 of the current enrolled defensive linemans on the roster also being on the 2019 roster is concerning.

The question was interior DL which means DT's.

 

[westcoastcanes]

Just a question how many Interior DL is expected per class and expected to be on the roster at a time?

Per class...3-4.
add that up and it covers for some modest attrition over 4-5 years.
Elite teams...those 3-4 should be 5* and 4*. Occasional 3* that has been eval'd that you are confident in.

That number is not realistic. UGA and Alabama have 12-13 total DL. FSU has 15 with a couple walk-ons. Auburn has 12. USC has 11. Clemson has 15.

This season we had 15 DL on our roster, 8 of those are DT's. After this off-season we will have 10 if Norton and RJ stay. 8 if they leave with 4 being DT's (too few for sure).

3 DT's per class would be 12 DT's on the roster at a given time. <2 per year after attrition is ideal and 6-7 on a roster is perfect.

Rousseau, Nesta, and Chatfield seem almost certain to sign. That puts us worse case (Norton and RJ leave) at 11 DL and 5 DT's. Best case 13 DL and 7 DT's.

Given these numbers if we can sign 2 more DT's and maybe 1 more DE we'd be in perfect position. Not exactly a huge ask to finish with a few more. None of Kul's targets at DT have signed yet.

Briggs
Carson (in a good spot, had a great visit and he is a good kid, very concerned with helping the needy, Pastor Richt wheelhouse)
Thompson

His question was DL, not DT, so inclusive of DE. 2 DT and 2 DE per season is about right. You lose depth to injury, transfer, graduation, disciplinary and early draft entry. while a 5 year cycle of 4 per year is 20, that leaves 13-16 active which is just right.


RJ and Norton are leaving, 8 is unreasonably thin, there should have been 3 more DL over the last two classes, two more this class.

Looking ahead to next year we lose Willis (if he even plays this year), Djax to graduation, and could lose joe jackson to early entry. The idea of only 5 of the current enrolled defensive linemans on the roster also being on the 2019 roster is concerning.

The question was interior DL which means DT's.

You are totally right, but we still need 2 true DT per class, every class or we are playing catch up.

 

[Ethnicsands]

There is no try hard here...its not even a bash Golden topic...its not just about the DL Golden left...its about a series of coaches that have a similar pattern of underrecruiting defensive line, especially the interior. There is some talent...sure...but the depth, especially quality depth, isn't there. Golden extended a trend that started before he got here...and we are starting to see the same develop under Richt. Which is the point. There is no need to try hard. The numbers are the numbers. There needs to be a quota and they aren't meeting it. Golden was used as an example because to fill numbers he would scramble last minute to acquire luke warm bodies. It feels as though, in Richt's third class, we are just about arriving to that train station.

Just a question how many Interior DL is expected per class and expected to be on the roster at a time?

Per class...3-4.
add that up and it covers for some modest attrition over 4-5 years.
Elite teams...those 3-4 should be 5* and 4*. Occasional 3* that has been eval'd that you are confident in.

That number is not realistic. UGA and Alabama have 12-13 total DL. FSU has 15 with a couple walk-ons. Auburn has 12. USC has 11. Clemson has 15.

This season we had 15 DL on our roster, 8 of those are DT's. After this off-season we will have 10 if Norton and RJ stay. 8 if they leave with 4 being DT's (too few for sure).

3 DT's per class would be 12 DT's on the roster at a given time. <2 per year after attrition is ideal and 6-7 on a roster is perfect.

Rousseau, Nesta, and Chatfield seem almost certain to sign. That puts us worse case (Norton and RJ leave) at 11 DL and 5 DT's. Best case 13 DL and 7 DT's.

Given these numbers if we can sign 2 more DT's and maybe 1 more DE we'd be in perfect position. Not exactly a huge ask to finish with a few more. None of Kul's targets at DT have signed yet.

Briggs
Carson (in a good spot, had a great visit and he is a good kid, very concerned with helping the needy, Pastor Richt wheelhouse)
Thompson

#1 - You need you account for attrition every year as a recruiter, evaluator, and program builder. So, recruiting 3-4 per year does not mean you will have 12-16 or whatever on your roster...you need to understand many of those are going to fall by the wayside. Injuries, transfers, so deep on the bench you forget they exist, etc.

#2 - Need fluctuates between interior and outside. Some years are heavy on the interior, others heavy on the outside. When I say "interior DL" usually, per 247, it will mean DT and SDE. So, 3-4 DT and/or SDE.

numbers from 247...total DL...only because SDE/DT/WDE position doesn't always translate...but to ultimately make a point...

Alabama
2018 - 5* (1) 4* (4) 3* (0) - 5 Total
2017 - 5* (1) 4* (2) 3* (0) - 3 Total
2016 - 5* (0) 4* (4) 3* (1) - 5 Total
2015 - 5* (1) 4* (2) 3* (2) - 5 Total

Total - 5* (3) 4* (12) 3* (3) - 18 Total

Clemson
2018 - 5* (2) 4* (2) 3* (1) - 5 Total
2017 - 5* (0) 4* (3) 3* (0) - 3 Total
2016 - 5* (1) 4* (2) 3* (1) - 4 Total
2015 - 5* (1) 4* (3) 3* (3) - 7 Total

Total - 5* (4) 4* (10) 3* (5) - 19 Total

Ohio State
2018 - 5* (1) 4* (3) 3* (1) - 5 Total
2017 - 5* (1) 4* (2) 3* (0) - 3 Total
2016 - 5* (1) 4* (2) 3* (0) - 3 Total
2015 - 5* (0) 4* (2) 3* (4) - 6 Total

Total - 5* (3) 4* (9) 3* (5) - 17 Total

Now compare that to Miami...

Miami
2018 - 5* (0) 4* (1) 3* (1) - 2 Total
2017 - 5* (0) 4* (2) 3* (1) - 3 Total
2016 - 5* (0) 4* (2) 3* (1) - 3 Total
2015 - 5* (0) 4* (0) 3* (3) - 3 Total

Total - 5* (0) 4* (5) 3* (6) - 11 Total

I think you can pick up what I am putting down. The valley between Miami and the best in the country is massive right now in the most important position group. Numbers AND quality just aren't there and its not like its gotten better under Richt.

Agree with this analysis.

 

[ShadowSpring]

There is no try hard here...its not even a bash Golden topic...its not just about the DL Golden left...its about a series of coaches that have a similar pattern of underrecruiting defensive line, especially the interior. There is some talent...sure...but the depth, especially quality depth, isn't there. Golden extended a trend that started before he got here...and we are starting to see the same develop under Richt. Which is the point. There is no need to try hard. The numbers are the numbers. There needs to be a quota and they aren't meeting it. Golden was used as an example because to fill numbers he would scramble last minute to acquire luke warm bodies. It feels as though, in Richt's third class, we are just about arriving to that train station.

Just a question how many Interior DL is expected per class and expected to be on the roster at a time?

Per class...3-4.
add that up and it covers for some modest attrition over 4-5 years.
Elite teams...those 3-4 should be 5* and 4*. Occasional 3* that has been eval'd that you are confident in.

That number is not realistic. UGA and Alabama have 12-13 total DL. FSU has 15 with a couple walk-ons. Auburn has 12. USC has 11. Clemson has 15.

This season we had 15 DL on our roster, 8 of those are DT's. After this off-season we will have 10 if Norton and RJ stay. 8 if they leave with 4 being DT's (too few for sure).

3 DT's per class would be 12 DT's on the roster at a given time. <2 per year after attrition is ideal and 6-7 on a roster is perfect.

Rousseau, Nesta, and Chatfield seem almost certain to sign. That puts us worse case (Norton and RJ leave) at 11 DL and 5 DT's. Best case 13 DL and 7 DT's.

Given these numbers if we can sign 2 more DT's and maybe 1 more DE we'd be in perfect position. Not exactly a huge ask to finish with a few more. None of Kul's targets at DT have signed yet.

Briggs
Carson (in a good spot, had a great visit and he is a good kid, very concerned with helping the needy, Pastor Richt wheelhouse)
Thompson

[URL=https://www.canesinsight.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=1]#1 [/URL] - You need you account for attrition every year as a recruiter, evaluator, and program builder. So, recruiting 3-4 per year does not mean you will have 12-16 or whatever on your roster...you need to understand many of those are going to fall by the wayside. Injuries, transfers, so deep on the bench you forget they exist, etc.

[URL=https://www.canesinsight.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=2]#2 [/URL] - Need fluctuates between interior and outside. Some years are heavy on the interior, others heavy on the outside. When I say "interior DL" usually, per 247, it will mean DT and SDE. So, 3-4 DT and/or SDE.

numbers from 247...total DL...only because SDE/DT/WDE position doesn't always translate...but to ultimately make a point...

Alabama
2018 - 5* (1) 4* (4) 3* (0) - 5 Total
2017 - 5* (1) 4* (2) 3* (0) - 3 Total
2016 - 5* (0) 4* (4) 3* (1) - 5 Total
2015 - 5* (1) 4* (2) 3* (2) - 5 Total

Total - 5* (3) 4* (12) 3* (3) - 18 Total

Clemson
2018 - 5* (2) 4* (2) 3* (1) - 5 Total
2017 - 5* (0) 4* (3) 3* (0) - 3 Total
2016 - 5* (1) 4* (2) 3* (1) - 4 Total
2015 - 5* (1) 4* (3) 3* (3) - 7 Total

Total - 5* (4) 4* (10) 3* (5) - 19 Total

Ohio State
2018 - 5* (1) 4* (3) 3* (1) - 5 Total
2017 - 5* (1) 4* (2) 3* (0) - 3 Total
2016 - 5* (1) 4* (2) 3* (0) - 3 Total
2015 - 5* (0) 4* (2) 3* (4) - 6 Total

Total - 5* (3) 4* (9) 3* (5) - 17 Total

Now compare that to Miami...

Miami
2018 - 5* (0) 4* (1) 3* (1) - 2 Total
2017 - 5* (0) 4* (2) 3* (1) - 3 Total
2016 - 5* (0) 4* (2) 3* (1) - 3 Total
2015 - 5* (0) 4* (0) 3* (3) - 3 Total

Total - 5* (0) 4* (5) 3* (6) - 11 Total

I think you can pick up what I am putting down. The valley between Miami and the best in the country is massive right now in the most important position group. Numbers AND quality just aren't there and its not like its gotten better under Richt.

The numbers we have on the roster are fine as I have shown. We have the same number of DT's and DE as these other squads. There's no getting around that. We had 15 on the roster in 2017 which is more than some the other teams you referenced. 12-17 seems to be the range for all these top teams.

Now there is absolutely no question regarding the quality of the DL targets we have gotten compared to the other squads. Miami is far far behind. However that is the case at EVERY position. We are also behind in numbers as a whole everywhere. Recruiting at all positions has been sub par until #storm18 . This is the very first recruiting cycle since 2009 that Miami has been in the mix with the big boys again. There's elite prospects coming at every position. We are also targeting some great and highly rated prospects. Nesta and Briggs are the #1 and #2 DT's in the state.

Any complaints regarding the DL recruiting this cycle is premature. The only reasonable thing to do is let it play out. Let's see what our numbers are after this cycle. Given the players we've already gotten in #storm18 , the kids in #surge19 , and the amazing start to #category20 (4-5* players already), I am confident. Richt has a ton of recruiting momentum and is obviously kicking some ****. I think we finish strong given what is happening.

 

[ShadowSpring]

Per class...3-4.
add that up and it covers for some modest attrition over 4-5 years.
Elite teams...those 3-4 should be 5* and 4*. Occasional 3* that has been eval'd that you are confident in.

That number is not realistic. UGA and Alabama have 12-13 total DL. FSU has 15 with a couple walk-ons. Auburn has 12. USC has 11. Clemson has 15.

This season we had 15 DL on our roster, 8 of those are DT's. After this off-season we will have 10 if Norton and RJ stay. 8 if they leave with 4 being DT's (too few for sure).

3 DT's per class would be 12 DT's on the roster at a given time. <2 per year after attrition is ideal and 6-7 on a roster is perfect.

Rousseau, Nesta, and Chatfield seem almost certain to sign. That puts us worse case (Norton and RJ leave) at 11 DL and 5 DT's. Best case 13 DL and 7 DT's.

Given these numbers if we can sign 2 more DT's and maybe 1 more DE we'd be in perfect position. Not exactly a huge ask to finish with a few more. None of Kul's targets at DT have signed yet.

Briggs
Carson (in a good spot, had a great visit and he is a good kid, very concerned with helping the needy, Pastor Richt wheelhouse)
Thompson

His question was DL, not DT, so inclusive of DE. 2 DT and 2 DE per season is about right. You lose depth to injury, transfer, graduation, disciplinary and early draft entry. while a 5 year cycle of 4 per year is 20, that leaves 13-16 active which is just right.


RJ and Norton are leaving, 8 is unreasonably thin, there should have been 3 more DL over the last two classes, two more this class.

Looking ahead to next year we lose Willis (if he even plays this year), Djax to graduation, and could lose joe jackson to early entry. The idea of only 5 of the current enrolled defensive linemans on the roster also being on the 2019 roster is concerning.

The question was interior DL which means DT's.

You are totally right, but we still need 2 true DT per class, every class or we are playing catch up.

Agree.

 

[Ethnicsands]

Just a question how many Interior DL is expected per class and expected to be on the roster at a time?

Per class...3-4.
add that up and it covers for some modest attrition over 4-5 years.
Elite teams...those 3-4 should be 5* and 4*. Occasional 3* that has been eval'd that you are confident in.

That number is not realistic. UGA and Alabama have 12-13 total DL. FSU has 15 with a couple walk-ons. Auburn has 12. USC has 11. Clemson has 15.

This season we had 15 DL on our roster, 8 of those are DT's. After this off-season we will have 10 if Norton and RJ stay. 8 if they leave with 4 being DT's (too few for sure).

3 DT's per class would be 12 DT's on the roster at a given time. <2 per year after attrition is ideal and 6-7 on a roster is perfect.

Rousseau, Nesta, and Chatfield seem almost certain to sign. That puts us worse case (Norton and RJ leave) at 11 DL and 5 DT's. Best case 13 DL and 7 DT's.

Given these numbers if we can sign 2 more DT's and maybe 1 more DE we'd be in perfect position. Not exactly a huge ask to finish with a few more. None of Kul's targets at DT have signed yet.

Briggs
Carson (in a good spot, had a great visit and he is a good kid, very concerned with helping the needy, Pastor Richt wheelhouse)
Thompson

[URL=https://www.canesinsight.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=1]#1 [/URL] - You need you account for attrition every year as a recruiter, evaluator, and program builder. So, recruiting 3-4 per year does not mean you will have 12-16 or whatever on your roster...you need to understand many of those are going to fall by the wayside. Injuries, transfers, so deep on the bench you forget they exist, etc.

[URL=https://www.canesinsight.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=2]#2 [/URL] - Need fluctuates between interior and outside. Some years are heavy on the interior, others heavy on the outside. When I say "interior DL" usually, per 247, it will mean DT and SDE. So, 3-4 DT and/or SDE.

numbers from 247...total DL...only because SDE/DT/WDE position doesn't always translate...but to ultimately make a point...

Alabama
2018 - 5* (1) 4* (4) 3* (0) - 5 Total
2017 - 5* (1) 4* (2) 3* (0) - 3 Total
2016 - 5* (0) 4* (4) 3* (1) - 5 Total
2015 - 5* (1) 4* (2) 3* (2) - 5 Total

Total - 5* (3) 4* (12) 3* (3) - 18 Total

Clemson
2018 - 5* (2) 4* (2) 3* (1) - 5 Total
2017 - 5* (0) 4* (3) 3* (0) - 3 Total
2016 - 5* (1) 4* (2) 3* (1) - 4 Total
2015 - 5* (1) 4* (3) 3* (3) - 7 Total

Total - 5* (4) 4* (10) 3* (5) - 19 Total

Ohio State
2018 - 5* (1) 4* (3) 3* (1) - 5 Total
2017 - 5* (1) 4* (2) 3* (0) - 3 Total
2016 - 5* (1) 4* (2) 3* (0) - 3 Total
2015 - 5* (0) 4* (2) 3* (4) - 6 Total

Total - 5* (3) 4* (9) 3* (5) - 17 Total

Now compare that to Miami...

Miami
2018 - 5* (0) 4* (1) 3* (1) - 2 Total
2017 - 5* (0) 4* (2) 3* (1) - 3 Total
2016 - 5* (0) 4* (2) 3* (1) - 3 Total
2015 - 5* (0) 4* (0) 3* (3) - 3 Total

Total - 5* (0) 4* (5) 3* (6) - 11 Total

I think you can pick up what I am putting down. The valley between Miami and the best in the country is massive right now in the most important position group. Numbers AND quality just aren't there and its not like its gotten better under Richt.

The numbers we have on the roster are fine as I have shown. We have the same number of DT's and DE as these other squads. There's no getting around that. We had 15 on the roster in 2017 which is more than some the other teams you referenced. 12-17 seems to be the range for all these top teams.

Now there is absolutely no question regarding the quality of the DL targets we have gotten compared to the other squads. Miami is far far behind. However that is the case at EVERY position. We are also behind in numbers as a whole everywhere. Recruiting at all positions has been sub par until #storm18 . This is the very first recruiting cycle since 2009 that Miami has been in the mix with the big boys again. There's elite prospects coming at every position. We are also targeting some great and highly rated prospects. Nesta and Briggs are the #1 and #2 DT's in the state.

Any complaints regarding the DL recruiting this cycle is premature. The only reasonable thing to do is let it play out. Let's see what our numbers are after this cycle. Given the players we've already gotten in #storm18 , the kids in #surge19 , and the amazing start to #category20 (4-5* players already), I am confident. Richt has a ton of recruiting momentum and is obviously kicking some ****. I think we finish strong given what is happening.

Im sure the '19 and '20 kids will help a lot against LSU next season.