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1999 Era Recruiting vs Today (Derailed Maason Smith thread)

Ethnicsands said:
I guess my point is you don't have to be a good evaluator of coaching to understand basic managerial decision-making. Coker wasn't qualified and the only reason he was considered was because of a player revolt. That alone should have been enough for Dee to make the call differently.

As for Alvarez, the only reason he was the alternative was because of the Troll. Insofar as she destroyed the program, I don't like writing what I'm about to write. But it's really unfair to Alvarez to compare him to Golden or Coker. Barry was a real coach and man, not a clappy goof. He wasn't right for UM and I'm not arguing otherwise. But I'm not convinced he was anywhere near the death sentence that Coker et seq. became.
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He would've been worse. Barry was a disciplinarian. He didn't play those games. He also ran a system that was as dated, yet consistent as he was. The reason for alfraud demise was virtually the same. He ran a system based upon intellect rather than instincts and athleticism. Kids from the south thrive 9 out of 10 because they are encouraged to play up to those instincts and embrace their athleticism... Alfraud and and barry were the same in that sense. One respected and **** near dominant if in the right spot. But both dinosaurs with their approach to the game.
wspcane said:
Agree 100% on Alvarez vs Coker. He at least knew how to run a program, even if it was in a different mold from what Miami needs. I don’t really remember, but I thought it was just the two of them mentioned for the job? D would know better.

Agree on the first point as well. My main question was whether there was ever regret about laying that ultimatum instead of letting it play out. With that talent in 01, I think we will that year regardless. Lots of what-ifs and forks in the road from the last period of Miami football history, but this was probably the biggest.
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Plenty of very talented teams get wasted systematically. We've been prime examples of that for years now. The reason Coker was wanted was because he was the devil we knew. He wouldn't try to change the system or tinker with the line up. He basically just stayed out of everyones way. Alvarez would've never done that. He wasn't tame like that.
 
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dsddcane said:
Everyone hated schiano. Like really hated him. So while he would've been a better option he also wouldn't have been an option. He was butch's guy and what these individuals on here don't like to acknowledge is butch was basically ran out of town. Doubt he would've been able to get schiano that job as board would've seen it as a favor to butch.
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Did the players like Schiano?
 
dsddcane said:
I didn't mention willis at all since he was mr florida. Don't change what I say cause y'all feel one way or another. Dre was lightly recruited until the end of his cycle. No part of him was elite when it came to recruiting. His offers came late and in large part off of playoffs that's what sealed both him and roscoe. Y'all live in a play play world. Willis was elite. And even if you'd like to say dre was too you're still avoiding what was said because maybe it works more to get the sensationalism involved. Facts are THE VAST MAJORITY OF **** NEAR ALL OF OUR CLASSES WAS KNOWN FOR UNDERVALUED KIDS WE HAD TO DEVELOP...
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What are you talking about? Are you drinking? I didn’t respond to any post of yours.
 
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NicKane said:
Agree whole heartedly with your last paragraph ethnic. Barry was a championship coach who single handily brought wisky out of the depths of CFB. People see wisky as the year in, year out competitive program they are now but they were a bottom dweller before Barry. He revived that program to a big ten and rose bowl champion abd coached a heisman winner. And did it all without the top recruits as he was also one **** of an evaluator too! And I’ll add he’s the only big ten coach to have a winning record against the ole sweater vest tressel. So I’m not saying he was right for us, but like you said atleast he was a real coach who actually new what the **** he was doing. And I think with him on the sidelines we win that 02 title game in regulation without even letting it go to overtime where the refs can ***** us.
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But you can't take out of the equation the other factors involved. Like u said he recruited a certain type of kids because they were a perfect fit for his system. Just like dnofrio did,just like golden did,just like peterson,d'antonio and plenty others. They recruit a certain type of kids for a reason. Those kids as we saw under golden don't exist in the south predominantly. They come from the north & they come from the mid west. However we **** NEAR EXCLUSIVELY RECRUIT FROM STRICTLY THE SOUTH... That system is the opposite of our strengths.
 
AUcane said:
D, I’ve been around recruiting for a while (started really following in 88-89). While what you say in general is true, this is no longer the 90s and even 00s. It’s the age of information and local diamonds in the rough are harder to evaluate and there is much more competition for them: the last 10-15 years has also seen the age of bagmen really get out of control in the arms race of recruiting where schools across the board are stacking chips.

I do think we’ve gotten less National over the past 10-12 years - we used to be much better are scouting National guys 20+ years ago. For some reason we’ve largely abandoned that approach.
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diamonds in the rough still exist and evaluations are still critical as well as local knowledge. Gregory Rosseau is the latest example. great players still fall the information cracks
 
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dsddcane said:
He would've been worse. Barry was a disciplinarian. He didn't play those games. He also ran a system that was as dated, yet consistent as he was. The reason for alfraud demise was virtually the same. He ran a system based upon intellect rather than instincts and athleticism. Kids from the south thrive 9 out of 10 because they are encouraged to play up to those instincts and embrace their athleticism... Alfraud and and barry were the same in that sense. One respected and **** near dominant if in the right spot. But both dinosaurs with their approach to the game.
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I certainly don't want to argue with you about that team and moment. And I agree re Alvarez's scheme - already noted that didn't fit UM. But everything I know about management and leadership says Alvarez > Coker all day every day (and Alvarez > Alfraud obviously). Would Alvarez have botched winning with the greatest team in history? I can't dispute what you know but I struggle to see how it was smarter to go with an unqualified clappy. As far as Gluten goes, he may have been like Alvarez schematically, but he wasn't a good decision-maker at all, wasn't a leader, and wouldn't have succeeded where Alvarez did. I don't like Barry's fit for UM and never liked the Troll's interference with the program. I do respect the man though. He was a great coordinator and then head coach and did resurrect WI from the dumpster.

Anyhow, it's all in the past. Coker was a terrible hire. If the alterantive was a terrible option too, that's no one's fault but Dee and Shalala.
 
hoops156 said:
wasnt he a parade all american in HS?
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Yeah parade and sporting news rated him high by the end of the year. Look where he was coming into that year if u get bored. Like I said he ended his year strong. Regardless anyone in most sports will tell you a kids offers are mainly based upon sophmore and junior years. But y'all go about this however you'd like. My eyes you're grasping for straws and as usual people avoid facts. Our history came from kids who were no part of elite recruits. But you guys know better than me.
 
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Ethnicsands said:
The more I think about it, the more I think the Ray Lewis anecdote is the perfect example of what fans today do not understand. Ray was an undefeated state champion wrestler at 183. He wasn’t some secret. He was not qualified, poor, undersized, small program. Kids like that slip through the rating system every **** year. Maybe not future ray lewises, but who is? He’s the goat but his type of prospect comes along all the time. That’s the entire **** point of evals. Ray was fire the second he wakes on campus. Some coaches see kids abilities and potential and others don’t.
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It’s for reasons like this coach king (d’eriq’s dad RIP) is a legend. He was a voice of reason in the hoods. He had dope boys putting money together to send kids to camps and then eventually start 7 on 7 and youth teams.. kids who would have never been seen at a camp all of a sudden were 4 star kids
 
dsddcane said:
Yeah parade and sporting news rated him high by the end of the year. Look where he was coming into that year if u get bored. Like I said he ended his year strong. Regardless anyone in most sports will tell you a kids offers are mainly based upon sophmore and junior years. But y'all go about this however you'd like. My eyes you're grasping for straws and as usual people avoid facts. Our history came from kids who were no part of elite recruits. But you guys know better than me.
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Facts. You don’t just “blow up” as a senior too often even today. That **** is rare. Sure you get offers here and there but your ranking as a prospect is determined long before you even finish most times
 
dsddcane said:
Yeah parade and sporting news rated him high by the end of the year. Look where he was coming into that year if u get bored. Like I said he ended his year strong. Regardless anyone in most sports will tell you a kids offers are mainly based upon sophmore and junior years. But y'all go about this however you'd like. My eyes you're grasping for straws and as usual people avoid facts. Our history came from kids who were no part of elite recruits. But you guys know better than me.
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You’re just making **** up. He was a major national recruit going into his senior year. Everyone knew about him and wanted him, including FSU, UF, USC, and Tennessee. That UM class was full of elite recruits who would’ve been 5*s or high 4*s today. And following our first ‘ship, with the exception of the probations years, Miami regularly signed elite recruits for two decades straight.

The foundation of our modern “history” and run of dominance was established, in substantial part, by elite recruits, starting with Brown, Highsmith, Bratton, Stubbs, Rusty, and from there the list goes on...Barrow, Armstead, K. Williams, etc etc
 
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SouthParkCane said:
Facts. You don’t just “blow up” as a senior too often even today. That **** is rare. Sure you get offers here and there but your ranking as a prospect is determined long before you even finish most times
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Guys 'blow up' as seniors these days just like they always have. That's real life, real kids, same reasons. If the ratings services don't notice or adapt, oh well. There are always going to be kids who grow late, change positions, had injuries, had to wait for their chance, didn't start out in FB early, had grade issues that interfered, etc. Sometimes the bulb just goes off. Likewise, some kids who are seen as top notch as underclassmen don't progress as expected, don't have the drive, don't put in the effort, get injured, etc. All the same type of issues in reverse. Texas is a great example of a program that ***** itself over and over because it thinks prospects are determined in their soph and junior years.

We shouldn't care what the ranking services say. Some kids we target as underclassmen don't improve. And they often get dropped. Happens most years. Other local kids, we should be picking them up when they prove they merit the offer.
 
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