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1999 Era Recruiting vs Today (Derailed Maason Smith thread)

AUcane said:
Agree on Dre. He was a monster recruit. Doesn't matter that he played QB/WR in HS. He was a high 4 start type of kid and was on AA lists.
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Dre wasn't under the radar at all. He was solid to UM forever and that probably had to do with some of the lack of recruiting hype.
 
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gogeta4 said:
Alabama egregiously offers kids. **** they likely offer double the amount of kids than we do (think it was documented). They have that whole recruiting department and their "offer" for the most part is saying they know of you. Alabama gets the bump because they are a top 5 blue blood program with high subscribers which means MONEY for the recruiting sites.
Not because t hey have some "real good eye" for talent better than others. **** they wanted Amari Cooper somewhat as a DB. lmao.

As far as Golden camps, those kids likely showed out at camps. The one problem is....no one likely told him that alot of his camps werent flooded with the top guys in the area. They likely showed out against fcs level talent or kids that work at Metro Pcs currently. So it was easier for the Larry Dortch to show out on a weekend when the other top kids were running in the 7 on 7 tour elsewhere.
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Alabama does offer a lot of kids, which is one reason why I dislike the discussions around here about how we stole so and so from Alabama. It's rarely true. They take 25 kids a year. Their offers don't mean they will take a kid.

However, they do have a good eye for talent, and so while I agree with you on hype and subscriptions, I also think the recruiting sites are smart to try to figure out which kids are actually wanted by several of the top programs. That's a decent way to approach rankings. A kid with not only 'offers' but real interest from Alabama, UGA, Ohio State, Clemson, Auburn, LSU ... those kids are going to be legit most of the time.

As far Golden's camp, I don't know what to say. I remember that like it was yesterday. You didn't have to be a genius to realize he was taking kids who didn't belong here. You just had to be willing to listen to folks who know local HS football and watched the camps or knew the kids. Golden gets no pass from me on that - he just didn't know what he was doing in evals.
 
Here's a depressing eval observation for the day:

Best I can tell, we haven't graduated a significant NFL player since Jimmy Graham, and we haven't graduated a significant NFL player who was recruited to play football here since the Calais Campbell draft. In the decade+ since, we've had some first round picks, some guys with decent careers, but no one with a truly significant NFL career. IIRC Vernon made second team all pro once, I think.

What's interesting is that in the '60s, we graduated Ted Hendricks and Jim Otto -- two high level Hall of Famers, plus Dan Conners, who was a multiple time all pro LB.

In the '70s, we sent Burgess Owens, Chuck Foreman, Otis Anderson, Harrah, Dunn, E. Edwards to the NFL, who all left real marks, and had others who were really good at UM (D. Smith, e.g.).

From the '80s-'2008, we had an almost unbroken string of significant players going to the NFL. Hall of Famers.

Since '09, it's been crickets. Our best player since then was a kid recruited for basketball. We blame scheme, and our schemes have stunk, but the NFL finds great players in D2. It's not just coaching. It's not just development.

What changed, IMO, is that the Troll's (and institution's) impact on who we recruited and culture was institutionalized by '04-'05, and it showed up in our outcomes by '09. I don't know how else to explain it. We've had talented kids in this era. Guys get drafted high. Guys who were good at UM. We've had very little to no significant college careers (awards), and very little to no significant NFL careers (all pro, e.g.).

Anyhow, hoping we can get back to having guys who aren't just draftable, but who outperform and make a big impact here and beyond.
 
Andre Johnson was a major recruit. He had significant attention on the Florida High School Gridiron report, and QB Roscoe Parrish throwing to him. Johnson was known as "The Specimen." He did not have yuge high school stats but averaged an insane number of yards per reception and after catch/contact. Buddy Collings' recruiting updates mentioned him.

Perhaps he would be more "nationally known" now that there are 873430 recruiting services, but he was a stud ( equivalent of today's high 4* at least) recruit and a major signing victory.
 
The guy who was less heavily regarded was Clinton Portis, which was a mystery to me. He was practically a one man offense at Gainesville High, great vision, great balance, broke a ton of tackles, and was clearly straight-line fast at any level. His film was outstanding.

For whatever reason, schools seemed to only want him at DB.

I was shocked that he signed here, but apparently we were his only major offer (there are conflicting reports about USCe) who said yes to RB. The rest is history.
 
JeddTheFisch said:
The guy who was less heavily regarded was Clinton Portis, which was a mystery to me. He was practically a one man offense at Gainesville High, great vision, great balance, broke a ton of tackles, and was clearly straight-line fast at any level. His film was outstanding.

For whatever reason, schools seemed to only want him at DB.

I was shocked that he signed here, but apparently we were his only major offer (there are conflicting reports about USCe) who said yes to RB. The rest is history.
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That happened to someone i know from mutual people/played against.... broke the state career rushing record up north. Like almost 6k rushing yards. Two schools wanted him for CB and one for RB. Played RB and led the Big East/NCAA in rushing one year. Straight line burner. Played like 6 years in the nfl, mostly special teams guy though.
 
JeddTheFisch said:
Andre Johnson was a major recruit. He had significant attention on the Florida High School Gridiron report, and QB Roscoe Parrish throwing to him. Johnson was known as "The Specimen." He did not have yuge high school stats but averaged an insane number of yards per reception and after catch/contact. Buddy Collings' recruiting updates mentioned him.

Perhaps he would be more "nationally known" now that there are 873430 recruiting services, but he was a stud ( equivalent of today's high 4* at least) recruit and a major signing victory.
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Dont think Roscoe was his qb..
 
dycane said:
What are you talking about? Are you drinking? I didn’t respond to any post of yours.
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I was obsessed with recruiting and that class if I remember correctly was Vernon Carey,Jason Geathets and Andre Johnson where top HS recruits for us and Johnson was Top 5 WR in Florida early on just not Top 100 nationally. Knock on Dre was his hands and that’s why it took a few years to play. But he was always a big name nationally.

2000 was McGahee who was well known the whole time.

this photo was from a Top Florida list in 1998 going into that 1999 signing period
BE8D558D-8386-4AAC-8267-F79829682177.webp
 
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gogeta4 said:
Sean was the 1 i said would have been sort of a sleeper, late riser. But an offer from THE BIG 3 back then made you shoot up...and he had the UM, UF offer. But he was one of the ones.

You are correct we have NEVER been the team to land all the Big ones..FSU and sometimes UF were the 2 out of the big 3 that seemed to land those big national recruits more so than us.

Im going to have to disagree on Dre Johnson though....he would essentially be what Jerry Jeudy, Ridley, Amari Cooper was in his recruitment. He was widely known as South Florida's top wr....in any ERA that is considered an ELITE recruit. He was known as that even though he played qb if im not mistaken alot. Like i said 99-00 i was a freshman in high school and had a "free class" with all the football players on my team. Thats where i found out about recruiting and sites like Grassy or Rivals. The person that showed me the sites was one of the National /Elite recruits as he was showing me himself and other top dogs. Andre Johnson WAS DEFINATELY one of if the not the first guy he showed and stated what he was. It was the introduction of GOGETA to the recruiting world ive been hooked ever since.
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Dre and roscoe both played qb for the high that year and dre also played db. It's why he wasn't rated as high as he should've been. He was absolutely considered an alpha LOCALLY. Nationally all that attention came later in the year. But I get it. Sure we'll say dre was a huge recruit. Now feel free pick apart every other name on that list. Funny **** is while that one clown *** dude keeps saying I'm making **** up and brings up parade like that was some big deal to be a parade all american, the one who did actually make a difference being a usa today all american guess how many of those people he mentioned were any part of that. Better yet guess how many we had in 30 years... Only one of em that he mentioned. Other were like Rudy,ceaser,dj & a handful of others. Several never even got into school. Anyways I don't mind having this convo with you brother. I know atleast youre going off your memory. But the lines are being confused to what was discussed. Being a dog locally didn't translate to being an ELITE NATIONAL RECRUIT WHO EVERYONE WANTED. Ask any number of us. Don't bother to believe me. Ask Frank what he was while he was considered the top rb in florida for years basically. When it all came down to it he didn't even have an offer from us till last second. He almost was forced to go to ole miss cause no one else would take him. Ask troy, darren,roscoe,Corey and tons of others. Scouts just like now we're scared to even go into half the areas these hits were staying and evaluate them. It's the sole reason miami was such an inigma for so long. But y'all wanna keep thinking we had elite national recruits.
 
MiamiChris said:
I was obsessed with recruiting and that class if I remember correctly was Vernon Carey,Jason Geathets and Andre Johnson where top HS recruits for us and Johnson was Top 5 WR in Florida early on just not Top 100 nationally. Knock on Dre was his hands and that’s why it took a few years to play. But he was always a big name nationally.

2000 was McGahee who was well known the whole time.

this photo was from a Top Florida list in 1998 going into that 1999 signing periodView attachment 137051
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Main big name from south that year was Vern who was a national recruits from sophmore year on cause he was like 6'8 and 400 pounds playing on a nationally dominant squad. Jason was definitely known nationally also. Top 100
 
dsddcane said:
Dre and roscoe both played qb for the high that year and dre also played db. It's why he wasn't rated as high as he should've been. He was absolutely considered an alpha LOCALLY. Nationally all that attention came later in the year. But I get it. Sure we'll say dre was a huge recruit. Now feel free pick apart every other name on that list. Funny **** is while that one clown *** dude keeps saying I'm making **** up and brings up parade like that was some big deal to be a parade all american, the one who did actually make a difference being a usa today all american guess how many of those people he mentioned were any part of that. Better yet guess how many we had in 30 years... Only one of em that he mentioned. Other were like Rudy,ceaser,dj & a handful of others. Several never even got into school. Anyways I don't mind having this convo with you brother. I know atleast youre going off your memory. But the lines are being confused to what was discussed. Being a dog locally didn't translate to being an ELITE NATIONAL RECRUIT WHO EVERYONE WANTED. Ask any number of us. Don't bother to believe me. Ask Frank what he was while he was considered the top rb in florida for years basically. When it all came down to it he didn't even have an offer from us till last second. He almost was forced to go to ole miss cause no one else would take him. Ask troy, darren,roscoe,Corey and tons of others. Scouts just like now we're scared to even go into half the areas these hits were staying and evaluate them. It's the sole reason miami was such an inigma for so long. But y'all wanna keep thinking we had elite national recruits.
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If I remember correctly, I thought part of Frank’s recruitment was impacted by his learning disability? It’s been a minute but I thought that was part of it?
 
wspcane said:
If I remember correctly, I thought part of Frank’s recruitment was impacted by his learning disability? It’s been a minute but I thought that was part of it?
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It absolutely was cause he was a late diagnosis. But again that's simply changing up the initial discussion which was were they elite recruits(ranked as that) or not. Troy was more well regarded than **** near anyone from down south on offense in general and nowhere would take him. Ended up stuck with iowa state.
 
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MiamiChris said:
I was obsessed with recruiting and that class if I remember correctly was Vernon Carey,Jason Geathets and Andre Johnson where top HS recruits for us and Johnson was Top 5 WR in Florida early on just not Top 100 nationally. Knock on Dre was his hands and that’s why it took a few years to play. But he was always a big name nationally.

2000 was McGahee who was well known the whole time.

this photo was from a Top Florida list in 1998 going into that 1999 signing periodView attachment 137051
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Spanish River had Geathers, Murray, and Lance Frazier in the backfield. LaDarius Vann at QB. Option every play.

Gladstone Coke (and his brother Dan) were like a 2-man team at Moore Haven.

Plantation was on a roll that year until Northwestern just went up and down the field against them in the 'offs.
 
Ethnicsands said:
Alabama does offer a lot of kids, which is one reason why I dislike the discussions around here about how we stole so and so from Alabama. It's rarely true. They take 25 kids a year. Their offers don't mean they will take a kid.

However, they do have a good eye for talent, and so while I agree with you on hype and subscriptions, I also think the recruiting sites are smart to try to figure out which kids are actually wanted by several of the top programs. That's a decent way to approach rankings. A kid with not only 'offers' but real interest from Alabama, UGA, Ohio State, Clemson, Auburn, LSU ... those kids are going to be legit most of the time.

As far Golden's camp, I don't know what to say. I remember that like it was yesterday. You didn't have to be a genius to realize he was taking kids who didn't belong here. You just had to be willing to listen to folks who know local HS football and watched the camps or knew the kids. Golden gets no pass from me on that - he just didn't know what he was doing in evals.
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We've beaten Bama out for a few kids. Off the top of my head Chad Thomas and Hall who currently starts.
 
JeddTheFisch said:
Spanish River had Geathers, Murray, and Lance Frazier in the backfield. LaDarius Vann at QB. Option every play.

Gladstone Coke (and his brother Dan) were like a 2-man team at Moore Haven.

Plantation was on a roll that year until Northwestern just went up and down the field against them in the 'offs.
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i believe Frazier went to WVU and I remember it always being a big debate if we should offer Ryan Schneider. Instead we sent that offer to a QB from Orinda California
 
dsddcane said:
It absolutely was cause he was a late diagnosis. But again that's simply changing up the initial discussion which was were they elite recruits(ranked as that) or not. Troy was more well regarded than **** near anyone from down south on offense in general and nowhere would take him. Ended up stuck with iowa state.
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Rankings and this discussion aside, what an incredible story and inspiration Frank is. I can’t begin to imagine the work it took to overcome that to qualify, let alone become one of the best RB in the history of the sport. One of my favorite Canes, mainly because of that.
 
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