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12/17: Temple 9:30PM (ESPNU)

You want Lazy? MLB is making weed allowable (I guess while in certain US states) for MLB players. Ooops, didn't mean to get political, but yeah Bev played last night like he was high on something. Who knows.
 
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Unfortunately, Walker probably should've redshirted and would have if Stone was healthy from the beginning. But since he has played he needs to get some minutes.
 
jkdood said:
I agree talented Bev has had major shortcomings much of this season, and recently, especially when there was apparently hUge potential.

He has a certain smoothness and natural basketball athleticism, for want of a better label, that I haven't witnessed here since Lonnie Walker. It wouldn't surprise me to see Bev become just as good... but I'm losing a bit of my hope for that as time goes on.
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Sure, he has many things to work on, ballhandling being #1. Still, he has the highest upside of the frosh as far as I can tell.
 
Fresh off dvr of the second half.

I think the missed dunk by Pierre Louis stopped their momentum.

The shift to a 2-3 zone really gave Temple fits. Our first half transition d was awful.

Sam played better, he actually looked 6’11 a few times. Rodney was a decent offensive threat but defense is another matter.

Stone is playing better each game. Agreed he has displaced Walker (who seems to be little more than spectator lately) and I think our best lineup is with him in it.

Beverly is a work in progress, but he’s definitely our most athletic player on the team.

Wong may appear quietly confident but he dribbles too much and gets rattled too easily. I still can’t decide if he wants to pass or shoot first and apparently neither does he.

On to Coppin State
 
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Gables Canes said:
He almost appears to be lazy. I saw a few instances last night where he threw the most half assed passes and didn't get back on defense, like that horrible possession to end the first half.
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He is lazy. Beverley is a playground type who has always had things come easy to him. I watched 3 minutes of the first game I attended and it was glaring. I summarized here later that night. His passes are indeed half assed and stupid. That was another thing I mentioned in that post a month ago. It reminded me of Lawrence in his early games as a freshman. But Lawrence wasn't a lazy playground type. He just didn't grasp the difference at this level yet.

Beverley is a playground type but not as naturally gifted as Lonnie Walker, who could get away with it most of the time. Beverley is struggling now. He's really going to get isolated and picked on in conference play if he doesn't mature quickly and step it up big time against the top conference opponents.
 
tcgrad1014 said:
I'm not into the Socratic method on message boards. State your point.
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Burn.

Bev really needs to play 20 MPG or more. When he plays 20 MPG or more, he averages 12 PPG, 3.2 APG and 2.4 RPG.

If they’re going to give him inconsistent burn, what do you expect from a freshman? Do you expect him to be mistake free instantly? To come in the game randomly and be a mature tenured player?

Bev has inconsistent minutes and is making mistakes. He Is averaging 1.9 TO in his first 10 games.

Lonnie Walker had 1.3 TO in his first 10.

Brown had 1.9 TO in his first 10 (freshman year). Then he finished his freshman year averaging 2.1 TO.

Lykes had 1.3 TO in his first 10. Then finished the season averaging 1.8 TO. Not only did his MPG go up, his TOs did too.
 
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Consigliere said:
Burn.

Bev really needs to play 20 MPG or more. When he plays 20 MPG or more, he averages 12 PPG, 3.2 APG and 2.4 RPG.

If they’re going to give him inconsistent burn, what do you expect from a freshman? Do you expect him to be mistake free instantly? To come in the game randomly and be a mature tenured player?

Bev has inconsistent minutes and is making mistakes. He Is averaging 1.9 TO in his first 10 games.

Lonnie Walker had 1.3 TO in his first 10.

Brown had 1.9 TO in his first 10 (freshman year). Then he finished his freshman year averaging 2.1 TO.

Lykes had 1.3 TO in his first 10. Then finished the season averaging 1.8 TO. Not only did his MPG go up, his TOs did too.
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These stats are very misleading and you know it.

1) Brown and Walker played substantially more minutes than Bev as freshmen, so comparing TO/game is meaningless. Bev's TO rate is 21, compared to Brown's 18 and Walker's 11. BTW, Walker's number ranked in the top 200 nationally for all players.

2) You're confusing correlation and causation. He's not struggling because he's not playing. He's not playing because he is struggling. Against Illinois, he only played 4 minutes. He committed 3 turnovers and 3 fouls. His performance was pitiful and merited a benching. It's a similar story in every other game he has been under 20. He's been given a chance to play big minutes every single game, but more often than not he has played poorly, and thus has been pulled quickly.


No one is giving up on him. He's too young and talented. But the kid has been bad, and if this team wants to win games this year (it should and it does), he can't be trusted in big spots or for long stretches.
 
Consigliere said:
Burn.

Bev really needs to play 20 MPG or more. When he plays 20 MPG or more, he averages 12 PPG, 3.2 APG and 2.4 RPG.

If they’re going to give him inconsistent burn, what do you expect from a freshman? Do you expect him to be mistake free instantly? To come in the game randomly and be a mature tenured player?

Bev has inconsistent minutes and is making mistakes. He Is averaging 1.9 TO in his first 10 games.

Lonnie Walker had 1.3 TO in his first 10.

Brown had 1.9 TO in his first 10 (freshman year). Then he finished his freshman year averaging 2.1 TO.

Lykes had 1.3 TO in his first 10. Then finished the season averaging 1.8 TO. Not only did his MPG go up, his TOs did too.
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Bev is sloppy and lazy. He hasn't earned minutes. He plays like he hasn't played organized basketball before.
 
ALLoverCANE said:
These stats are very misleading and you know it.
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They're not. I selected those 3 (Lykes, Brown and Walker ) because those are the recent talented guards that have come to Miami. Those are the guys that were thrown into the mix early.

ALLoverCANE said:
1) Brown and Walker played substantially more minutes than Bev as freshmen, so comparing TO/game is meaningless. Bev's TO rate is 21, compared to Brown's 18 and Walker's 11. BTW, Walker's number ranked in the top 200 nationally for all players.
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It isn't "meaningless". "Meaningless" would be comparing Bev to a polished guard; someone with a lot of experience. That is "meaningless".

Comparing Bev to other highly recruited freshman (at Miami) is not "meaningless". Not only did Brown and Lykes TO the ball, they TO the ball more as the season progressed.

ALLoverCANE said:
2) You're confusing correlation and causation.
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I'm not. You should read what is actually there. I am talking about keeping things consistent for a young player. If you fluctuate the minutes, greatly, then that isn't consistent. I am not saying that simply giving him more burn will result in a better player/production.

I am saying what is important is keeping it consistent. Give him the minutes, keep it consistent and allow him to get experience. He will make mistakes, he is a freshman. I find it interesting that other players are given opportunities after making mistakes, regardless, and they're much older:

Here is Sam's year: https://www.canesinsight.com/threads/12-17-temple-9-30pm-espnu.156419/page-12

First Five Games:

MPG: 24
PPG: 3.4
RPG: 5.4
TOPG: 1.2

Last Five Games:

MPG: 28.6
PPG: 8.4
RPG: 6.4
TOPG: 1.4

So Sam was given more opportunities, after atrocious production and he earned it? How?

ALLoverCANE said:
He's not struggling because he's not playing. He's not playing because he is struggling.
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IYO. Perhaps he is struggling because he isn't getting consistent opportunities.

ALLoverCANE said:
Against Illinois, he only played 4 minutes. He committed 3 turnovers and 3 fouls. His performance was pitiful and merited a benching.
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I agree it was pitiful. You know who had a worse performance that night...Rodney.

Rodney played 25 Minutes and had 2 Points and 2 Rebounds. In addition, ****burn (on Illinois) had 23 points. Not only did Rodney suck, beyond suck, he was partially to blame for ****burn's performance.

ALLoverCANE said:
It's a similar story in every other game he has been under 20.

He's been given a chance to play big minutes every single game, but more often than not he has played poorly, and thus has been pulled quickly.
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How can you be given a chance to play big minutes when you're removed from the game and not put back in? Do you seriously expect him to come into the game and have an instant impact or else, sit?

Here is one example for Bev: https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/playbyplay?gameId=401168163

That game he played 28 Minutes and had 14 Points, 4 Assists, 3 Rebounds, 1 Steal and 2 TOs.

First Half: 5 Points, 1 Assist, 0-2 FTL, 1 Rebound, 1 Foul and 1 TO
Second Half: 9 Points, 3 Assists, 2 Rebounds, 1 Steal and 1 TO

Here is another example for Bev: https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/game?gameId=401168177

That game he played 25 Minutes and had 15 Points, 4 Assists, 1 Rebound and 2 TOs

First Half: 2 Points, 2 Assists, 1 Rebound and 1 TO
Second Half: 13 Points, 2 Assists and 1 TO

Here is a final example for Bev: https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/playbyplay?gameId=401168251

That game he played 26 Minutes and had 12 Points, 4 Rebounds, 3 Assists and 1 TO

First Half: 4 Points, 4 Rebounds, 3 Assists, 2 Fouls and 2 TO
Second Half: 8 Points and 1 Block

The crazy part about this game was here is what he did in his first few minutes: 1 Foul, 1 TO, 1 Missed 3PT and 1 Rebound. This warrants more time?

It seems that he was allowed back into the games after NOT having an instant impact and it worked out. Again, freshman need consistency.

ALLoverCANE said:
No one is giving up on him. He's too young and talented.
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Hyperbole. Nobody is taking about "giving up on him". This is about keeping things consistent.

ALLoverCANE said:
But the kid has been bad, and if this team wants to win games this year (it should and it does), he can't be trusted in big spots or for long stretches.
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I agree. We're 4-1 when Bev is given 20 MPG (or more). In no way am I saying that Bev is the SOLE reason we won those games. I am just saying, if winning matters to you, then playing Bev helps.
 
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Consigliere said:
They're not. I selected those 3 (Lykes, Brown and Walker ) because those are the recent talented guards that have come to Miami. Those are the guys that were thrown into the mix early.



It isn't "meaningless". "Meaningless" would be comparing Bev to a polished guard; someone with a lot of experience. That is "meaningless".

Comparing Bev to other highly recruited freshman (at Miami) is not "meaningless". Not only did Brown and Lykes TO the ball, they TO the ball more as the season progressed.



I'm not. You should read what is actually there. I am talking about keeping things consistent for a young player. If you fluctuate the minutes, greatly, then that isn't consistent. I am not saying that simply giving him more burn will result in a better player/production.

I am saying what is important is keeping it consistent. Give him the minutes, keep it consistent and allow him to get experience. He will make mistakes, he is a freshman. I find it interesting that other players are given opportunities after making mistakes, regardless, and they're much older:

Here is Sam's year: https://www.canesinsight.com/threads/12-17-temple-9-30pm-espnu.156419/page-12

First Five Games:

MPG: 24
PPG: 3.4
RPG: 5.4
TOPG: 1.2

Last Five Games:

MPG: 28.6
PPG: 8.4
RPG: 6.4
TOPG: 1.4

So Sam was given more opportunities, after atrocious production and he earned it? How?



IYO. Perhaps he is struggling because he isn't getting consistent opportunities.



I agree it was pitiful. You know who had a worse performance that night...Rodney.

Rodney played 25 Minutes and had 2 Points and 2 Rebounds. In addition, ****burn (on Illinois) had 23 points. Not only did Rodney suck, beyond suck, he was partially to blame for ****burn's performance.



How can you be given a chance to play big minutes when you're removed from the game and not put back in? Do you seriously expect him to come into the game and have an instant impact or else, sit?

Here is one example for Bev: https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/playbyplay?gameId=401168163

That game he played 28 Minutes and had 14 Points, 4 Assists, 3 Rebounds, 1 Steal and 2 TOs.

First Half: 5 Points, 1 Assist, 0-2 FTL, 1 Rebound, 1 Foul and 1 TO
Second Half: 9 Points, 3 Assists, 2 Rebounds, 1 Steal and 1 TO

Here is another example for Bev: https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/game?gameId=401168177

That game he played 25 Minutes and had 15 Points, 4 Assists, 1 Rebound and 2 TOs

First Half: 2 Points, 2 Assists, 1 Rebound and 1 TO
Second Half: 13 Points, 2 Assists and 1 TO

Here is a final example for Bev: https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/playbyplay?gameId=401168251

That game he played 26 Minutes and had 12 Points, 4 Rebounds, 3 Assists and 1 TO

First Half: 4 Points, 4 Rebounds, 3 Assists, 2 Fouls and 2 TO
Second Half: 8 Points and 1 Block

The crazy part about this game was here is what he did in his first few minutes: 1 Foul, 1 TO, 1 Missed 3PT and 1 Rebound. This warrants more time?

It seems that he was allowed back into the games after NOT having an instant impact and it worked out. Again, freshman need consistency.


Hyperbole. Nobody is taking about "giving up on him". This is about keeping things consistent.



I agree. We're 4-1 when Bev is given 20 MPG (or more). In no way am I saying that Bev is the SOLE reason we won those games. I am just saying, if winning matters to you, then playing Bev helps.
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This is such a ridiculous post. And it's too long to respond to, which was probably your intention.

But yes, sure, the reason we beat the murderer's row of FAU, UCF, Quinnipiac, and Alabama A&M is because Bev got more minutes LOL. Cause and effect is clearly not your strong suit.
 
ALLoverCANE said:
This is such a ridiculous post. And it's too long to respond to, which was probably your intention.
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Now you’re guessing my mens rea? You’re wrong again. If you don’t want to respond, fine.

ALLoverCANE said:
But yes, sure, the reason we beat the murderer's row of FAU, UCF, Quinnipiac, and Alabama A&M is because Bev got more minutes LOL. Cause and effect is clearly not your strong suit.
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It doesn’t say that. The only part you responded to, you misread. Ouch on the “cause and effect” is that after “causation and correlation”. I can’t handle the insult that might follow.

In the future, if you don’t want to discuss or read what is actually there, don’t feel the need to make a porst. You decided to respond to me.
 
Consigliere said:
Now you’re guessing my mens rea? You’re wrong again. If you don’t want to respond, fine.



It doesn’t say that. The only part you responded to, you misread. Ouch on the “cause and effect” is that after “causation and correlation”. I can’t handle the insult that might follow.

In the future, if you don’t want to discuss or read what is actually there, don’t feel the need to make a porst. You decided to respond to me.
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I read the whole thing. It was full of many other misrepresentations of the facts. [FYI, when you write a treatise and people choose not to respond, it's not because you made good points, it's because you made none. If you can't concisely get your point across, maybe your point isn't a good one.]

But focusing on the misrepresentation I previously commented on...you said "We're 4-1 when Bev is given 20 MPG (or more)." One sentence later, in the same paragraph, you said, "if winning matters to you, then playing Bev helps". Are you really going to claim that you weren't implying that Bev playing more minutes was one of the reasons we won those games?
 
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I'm not immune to criticizing Coach L at times, and maybe this should be one of them (regarding Bev and PT).

One would like to think an accomplished veteran, maybe close to legendary, HC like Coach L would have a good feel for what ails Bev, and what would improve both his performance and our winning chances. Maybe a better feel, anyway, than CIS posters, not that everyone isn't entitled to their opinion and second guessing.

Is Bev playground-undisciplined and unresponsive to coaching or otherwise a poor attitude, and benching the best possible way to remedy that? Did he get a poor night's sleep or maybe party too hearty and Coach L can see that and yank him with little or no patience? He and the staff sees/knows more than we do for sure, probably each and every game and practice.

I do hope his judgment is up to the challenge. If not, we will probably linger in also-ran status for several more years, or longer.
 
Let me keep it simple, do you want to continue your tangent and porst and whine about the style of my post or do you want to actually discuss something pertinent?

Remember, you responded to my post.
 
Consigliere said:
Let me keep it simple, do you want to continue your tangent and porst and whine about the style of my post or do you want to actually discuss something pertinent?

Remember, you responded to my post.
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You're right, it's my fault for engaging with you in the first place. I've put you on Ignore to make sure it doesn't happen again.
 
jkdood said:
I'm not immune to criticizing Coach L at times, and maybe this should be one of them (regarding Bev and PT).

One would like to think an accomplished veteran, maybe close to legendary, HC like Coach L would have a good feel for what ails Bev, and what would improve both his performance and our winning chances. Maybe a better feel, anyway, than CIS posters, not that everyone isn't entitled to their opinion and second guessing.

Is Bev playground-undisciplined and unresponsive to coaching or otherwise a poor attitude, and benching the best possible way to remedy that? Did he get a poor night's sleep or maybe party too hearty and Coach L can see that and yank him with little or no patience? He and the staff sees/knows more than we do for sure, probably each and every game and practice.

I do hope his judgment is up to the challenge. If not, we will probably linger in also-ran status for several more years, or longer.
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Absolutely. I fully expect Bev to be a good player here, maybe even this year. But development takes time. The kid in his first semester in college.
 
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