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Coaching You were Warned...

Poopscoop said:
I'm not sure I get your process here. Obviously you're aware the people in place are completely clueless when it relates to how to compile a legit list. We don't have football people anywhere near this program. If you leave it up to any of them then again we're back to square 1. That's why zo is integral in this if a indepent firm that's been thoroughly vetted isn't in place. No way around one of those situations. You don't own something simply for the sake of owning it... & Yes we did use a firm when we came up with golden. However as you already noted all a firm does on its own is compile a list of interested candidates. You need someone indepent of them to vett their info as well. Also I think alot of people fail to recall how highly thought of alfraud was in the coaching world coming in here. He was coming off of numerous coaching awards and had turned a temple team into a legit squad. No need in rehashing the obvious. But if no d wasn't tied to the waste of alfraud the narrative on him would've been very different. Regardless of any of this I can tell you emphatically that Mario will be the focus of any campaign if we are able to get rid of this assclown.
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Sorry, we've all been discussing this so long and in pieces that my basic starting point is lost in this exchange.

Fire the AD. Hire a new one. Hire Zo. Let them run the process.

While I don't object to a search firm and think they can be helpful, I'm just cautioning that they're worth what you put into them, not more (which you also note). They're just facilitators. UM has been clueless, and it shows.

My bigger point that you responded to above is that UM has to own its own strategic assessment before trying to find a candidate to lead its program. If they'd thought even a bit about the local talent base, and schemes they come from and types of kids we have an advantage for (not to mention our 'style' of play), the idea of a 2 gap read and react 3-4 defense would have been a non-starter, just for example. But it seems clear we don't think that stuff through well, if at all.
 
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Ethnicsands said:
While I don't object to a search firm and think they can be helpful, I'm just cautioning that they're worth what you put into them, not more (which you also note). They're just facilitators. UM has been clueless, and it shows.
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If memory serves, we hired Challenger, Gray and Christmas to find us Golden. The company I was at also hired them to find anew CEO. After an extensive nationwide search, they chose our current COO. Within 5 years they were bankrupt and had to sell. Coincidence?
 
JD08 said:
If memory serves, we hired Challenger, Gray and Christmas to find us Golden. The company I was at also hired them to find anew CEO. After an extensive nationwide search, they chose our current COO. Within 5 years they were bankrupt and had to sell. Coincidence?
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Like I have said, search firms are just facilitators. Anyone who blames them for a bad outcome needs to look in the mirror. Best case they're a useful tool for a well run company to employ. But make no mistake, you have to do the needs assessment, write the spec, beat up the spec against the needs, then really prioritize your key must haves over nice to haves. Then you have to really assess the candidates against your spec. Get their plans. Ask tough questions. Do the type of work the NFL does before drafting someone. For a multi-million dollar commitment, do the work.
 
Ethnicsands said:
Sorry, we've all been discussing this so long and in pieces that my basic starting point is lost in this exchange.

Fire the AD. Hire a new one. Hire Zo. Let them run the process.

While I don't object to a search firm and think they can be helpful, I'm just cautioning that they're worth what you put into them, not more (which you also note). They're just facilitators. UM has been clueless, and it shows.

My bigger point that you responded to above is that UM has to own its own strategic assessment before trying to find a candidate to lead its program. If they'd thought even a bit about the local talent base, and schemes they come from and types of kids we have an advantage for (not to mention our 'style' of play), the idea of a 2 gap read and react 3-4 defense would have been a non-starter, just for example. But it seems clear we don't think that stuff through well, if at all.
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That would have been a job for, you know, a moderately qualified athletics director.
 
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Ethnicsands said:
Sorry, we've all been discussing this so long and in pieces that my basic starting point is lost in this exchange.

Fire the AD. Hire a new one. Hire Zo. Let them run the process.

While I don't object to a search firm and think they can be helpful, I'm just cautioning that they're worth what you put into them, not more (which you also note). They're just facilitators. UM has been clueless, and it shows.

My bigger point that you responded to above is that UM has to own its own strategic assessment before trying to find a candidate to lead its program. If they'd thought even a bit about the local talent base, and schemes they come from and types of kids we have an advantage for (not to mention our 'style' of play), the idea of a 2 gap read and react 3-4 defense would have been a non-starter, just for example. But it seems clear we don't think that stuff through well, if at all.
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You are attributing a level of football acumen to this search that I guarantee you nobody remotely associated with it will have. Just like the financial aspects associated with running a football program, we are completely behind the times.
 
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Poopscoop said:
First I gotta clear something up for you. We play in one of the worst conferences in p5 football. NOTHING should be looked at as a 5 year build... We have talent that if it's allowed to mature and coached up properly we'll be fine. Yes plenty of our evaluations are ****. However they aren't so bad that everyone we take is 95% misses. We need to stick with calling a game that utilizes the strengths of our team. The issue were running into now(if we already haven't)is these kids are losing their identity and in danger of giving up on themselves... That's more of an indictment than anything else on this staph for me. We can realistically turn this around in 2 years in the acc. Just look at unc for example. We have the best recruiting ground in America as our backyard. Far as the rest of your question goes I don't speak on things I don't know. Ol isn't my thing. I'll give you my opinion. I don't think justice is the problem. I think it's this zone blocking system we use. Myself I just feel like youth coaching in the south is severely lacking. From optimist through high school coaching is minimal for kids like this. You end up on online if your either big as in tall or worse yet big as in fat. Obviously you do get the freaks who physically stand out from the pack. But that's an aberration. Those are the kids who eventually get coached up. But you get to that point junior or senior year at certain high schools at best. Your employing a system in zone blocking that requires an advanced level of communication and awareness as well as technique... These kids Excell to get to this point because of their physical tools. Not their mental... Put kids in a place physically and mentally were they are more likely to succeed.
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Interesting comment on the OL. No doubt true.

Awhile back someone posted comments from an OL coach, saying more often than not he'd rather recruit an athletic 260 pound kid with room to legit grow to 300+ than a high school kid already over 300. Those over-sized kids are usually fat, and often coached to play soft against smaller kids. There are exceptions, obviously.
 
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BigCaneAl said:
You are attributing a level of football acumen to this search that I guarantee you nobody remotely associated with it will have. Just like the financial aspects associated with running a football program, we are completely behind the times.
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You're probably right but there's really no helping someone (or institution) that can't or won't help itself. There are plenty of people associated with UM who have the brain power and experience and will to do the work. If they won't, they won't.
 
Poopscoop said:
My only concern with him would be staff. Not sure when it relates to defense. He's an amazing x & o guy but he's very intellectual in his approach to football. That's the number one ingredient in where we went wrong with alfraud on the defensive side of the ball. We want someone who's solid in x & o, has a physical approach to the game and can delegate effectively where he has his flaws. Personally I love the idea of him and have for the longest. But I do have several concerns.
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he's never coming here. not a fit culturally. plus he quit a few years ago to dedicate more time to his family, including a sick child.
 
TemplarCane said:
Interesting comment on the OL. No doubt true.

Awhile back someone posted comments from an OL coach, saying more often than not he'd rather recruit an athletic 260 pound kid with room to legit grow to 300+ than a high school kid already over 300. Those over-sized kids are usually fat, and often coached to play soft against smaller kids. There are exceptions, obviously.
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All those big O-Line schools redshirt their recruits in the first season. Lift weights, work on your technique, come back next year.
 
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