Would Butch be the best possible hire?

Picks Good Coordinators - Check.

See, this is my concern right here, especially offensively.

He hired Larry Coker and John Shoop at OC. I think Butch is conservative in nature and wants to hire a "pro style" NFL coordinator who called plays for the '06 Vikings or something. Some people don't want to hear it, but spread is the name of the game right now. With limited practice time, it's easier to teach, and requires the QB to make fewer reads, which allows young guys to play earlier.

If we hire Butch, I hope he's willing to open things up a bit.

Completely agree. The Shoop hire is especially alarming because it was his most recent OC (hired in 2007 and stayed at UNC through the entirety of Butch's tenure). The results on that side of the ball were disastrous. Butch's prior offensive assistants at his previous head-coaching stints were hired over 10 years ago. It's a legitimate concern.

It makes complete sense when people say that bringing Butch back would help us capitalize on our greatest built-in advantage, which is our recruiting base. But maximizing that advantage involves getting as much of that explosive South Florida skill talent on the field as possible to create mismatches and light up the scoreboard, not having a conservative approach with a base offense that includes a fullback and/or two in-line TEs.
 
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you guys act as if butch didn't go to the nfl and learn some stuff along the way

he's been chillin ever since north carolina seeing how the landscape is while most coaches have been pulling their hair out

you guys really underestimate how much a bad motherfuker butch davis is, all you have to do is watch that game vs lsu where half his **** team basically was suspended and still some how some way showed up like no other

this guy is the scariest thing that could ever happen to college football at this point in time.
 
Picks Good Coordinators - Check.

See, this is my concern right here, especially offensively.

He hired Larry Coker and John Shoop at OC. I think Butch is conservative in nature and wants to hire a "pro style" NFL coordinator who called plays for the '06 Vikings or something. Some people don't want to hear it, but spread is the name of the game right now. With limited practice time, it's easier to teach, and requires the QB to make fewer reads, which allows young guys to play earlier.

If we hire Butch, I hope he's willing to open things up a bit.

Completely agree. The Shoop hire is especially alarming because it was his most recent OC (hired in 2007 and stayed at UNC through the entirety of Butch's tenure). The results on that side of the ball were disastrous. Butch's prior offensive assistants at his previous head-coaching stints were hired over 10 years ago. It's a legitimate concern.

It makes complete sense when people say that bringing Butch back would help us capitalize on our greatest built-in advantage, which is our recruiting base. But maximizing that advantage involves getting as much of that explosive South Florida skill talent on the field as possible to create mismatches and light up the scoreboard, not having a conservative approach with a base offense that includes a fullback and/or two in-line TEs.

This
 
It is amazing that some actually dont want Butch as the coach. Then give 0 info who we shoukd get. In 2010 Butch lost 13 starters for their opener. He lost 3 of his top players for full yr suspensions and another for 6 games. Lol chip kelly is not coming here

Love butch as much as the next guy but my question is if chip is fires, which it looks like he will be, where els would he land because he's not getting another nfl job and idk if there would be a better college job available this year

There is a lot of talk that Maryland will to go after him and sell him on them being the flagship school of Under Armor.
Lmao if us getting him is a pipe dream then Maryland getting him is a wet dream.
 
Picks Good Coordinators - Check.


See, this is my concern right here, especially offensively.

He hired Larry Coker and John Shoop at OC. I think Butch is conservative in nature and wants to hire a "pro style" NFL coordinator who called plays for the '06 Vikings or something. Some people don't want to hear it, but spread is the name of the game right now. With limited practice time, it's easier to teach, and requires the QB to make fewer reads, which allows young guys to play earlier.

If we hire Butch, I hope he's willing to open things up a bit.
Agree on all points. I'm pro Butch but if we hire him I hope he is willing to consider hiring an OC who will run a spread offense, or at least an offense with spread elements.
 
his eye for talent is second to none. but that isn't even why I think Butch is the best option. I think he realizes that he'll need to surround himself with a coaching staff that is COMPETENT, hungry, and aggressive. Butch also has a huge chip on his shoulder. He is hungry to finish what he started here.

Butch is the answer fellas. No one else.

Part of the concern is that the OC he hired at UNC and stuck with for his entire tenure there (Shoop) was the complete opposite of all three of those traits. Shoop is one of the most conservative OCs on the face of the earth. He's on the verge of getting run out of town at Purdue of all places because of his continued incompetence and stubbornly conservative nature.

Check out what Purdue's SB Nation site had to say about Shoop after their blowout loss to Virginia Tech a couple weeks ago:

So yes, let's talk about the offense. Could offensive genius John Shoop have called a worse game? Your average playcalling session:

- Incomplete on first down
- Run Markell Jones or D.J. Knox into the heart of a ridiculously tough defense on second down.
- Incompletion by Austin Appleby on third down
- Punt.

It was blatantly obvious to everyone even before the game that you could not run into the teeth of this defensive line. It was only the strong point of a very good defense. In fact, what little success Purdue did have in running the ball came on the few plays it ran to the edge or involved misdirection. But what did Shoop do? "Hey! We got stuffed up the middle, but it will work next time!"

As mentioned above, Butch and Shoop's offenses at UNC were complete disasters. Yes, it was UNC. But talent wasn't the issue and those total offense rankings are too abysmal to ignore. Butch hired some really good assistants a long time ago, but his most recent OC hire was a glaring misfire. For as much as fans have rightfully argued that our current defense is a match made in **** for this program, we can't afford to be behind the times and conservative offensively anymore either.

When you're going to a basketball program, and the previous year the football team went 3-9, it's a bit difficult to pull super performances out of a real fresh team, many who only got offers from UNC.

However, you look at his last year at UNC, look at it honestly - and had UNC not completely screwed it up - that final 8-5 year would have won at least two more games had he had his starters. And had he been there yet another year - well, he would have made a real showing.

You don't understand that you can only do what you have the players capable of doing. Conservative play calling? Look at what he had to work with early on at UNC.

Oh. That's right. He still used to kick our asses.
 
Picks Good Coordinators - Check.


See, this is my concern right here, especially offensively.

He hired Larry Coker and John Shoop at OC. I think Butch is conservative in nature and wants to hire a "pro style" NFL coordinator who called plays for the '06 Vikings or something. Some people don't want to hear it, but spread is the name of the game right now. With limited practice time, it's easier to teach, and requires the QB to make fewer reads, which allows young guys to play earlier.

If we hire Butch, I hope he's willing to open things up a bit.
This. I also wonder if people will be patient. I think it would take 4+ years to possibly get us to where we want to be with Butch. I don't see a one or two year turn around.

I just think Butch's hire is seen as all positives but there are legitimate cons that should worry us if he's brought back. All I want and all any canes fan wants to get the best possible coach that will lead us to the NC game and win it. Whether Butch is that guy, I just don't know. There are a lot of question marks that people are glossing over.

plus nothing healthier than a good debate.

It doesn't take 4+ years to get where we want to be. Especially with a full allotment of scholarships and the most fertile recruiting base. 3 years and we should be humming.
 
his eye for talent is second to none. but that isn't even why I think Butch is the best option. I think he realizes that he'll need to surround himself with a coaching staff that is COMPETENT, hungry, and aggressive. Butch also has a huge chip on his shoulder. He is hungry to finish what he started here.

Butch is the answer fellas. No one else.

Part of the concern is that the OC he hired at UNC and stuck with for his entire tenure there (Shoop) was the complete opposite of all three of those traits. Shoop is one of the most conservative OCs on the face of the earth. He's on the verge of getting run out of town at Purdue of all places because of his continued incompetence and stubbornly conservative nature.

Check out what Purdue's SB Nation site had to say about Shoop after their blowout loss to Virginia Tech a couple weeks ago:

So yes, let's talk about the offense. Could offensive genius John Shoop have called a worse game? Your average playcalling session:

- Incomplete on first down
- Run Markell Jones or D.J. Knox into the heart of a ridiculously tough defense on second down.
- Incompletion by Austin Appleby on third down
- Punt.

It was blatantly obvious to everyone even before the game that you could not run into the teeth of this defensive line. It was only the strong point of a very good defense. In fact, what little success Purdue did have in running the ball came on the few plays it ran to the edge or involved misdirection. But what did Shoop do? "Hey! We got stuffed up the middle, but it will work next time!"

As mentioned above, Butch and Shoop's offenses at UNC were complete disasters. Yes, it was UNC. But talent wasn't the issue and those total offense rankings are too abysmal to ignore. Butch hired some really good assistants a long time ago, but his most recent OC hire was a glaring misfire. For as much as fans have rightfully argued that our current defense is a match made in **** for this program, we can't afford to be behind the times and conservative offensively anymore either.

When you're going to a basketball program, and the previous year the football team went 3-9, it's a bit difficult to pull super performances out of a real fresh team, many who only got offers from UNC.

However, you look at his last year at UNC, look at it honestly - and had UNC not completely screwed it up - that final 8-5 year would have won at least two more games had he had his starters. And had he been there yet another year - well, he would have made a real showing.

You don't understand that you can only do what you have the players capable of doing. Conservative play calling? Look at what he had to work with early on at UNC.

Oh. That's right. He still used to kick our asses.

I never mentioned their offensive performance in his first year at any point in this thread for the exact reason you specified in your opening sentence.

A UNC offense with first-round WR Hakeem Nicks, three other skill players who are still in the NFL (though Tate should be excluded from the discussion since he missed 7 games that year due to injury), and a no-worse-than-average college QB who stayed in the NFL for four years (Yates) ranked 92nd in the country in total offense in 2008. 92nd.

Nicks and Tate were gone the following year, but in Butch's third season -- when he had multiple full classes of his own recruits -- they ranked 108th offensively. Their offense was utterly atrocious in Years 2 and 3. And you'd be hard pressed finding anyone with anything positive to say about Shoop, who's currently wearing out his welcome as the OC at Purdue.

Completely agree that they would've had a shot at a 10-win season in 2010 had it not been for those suspensions. But those offensive performances in 2008 and 2009 can't just be dismissed by saying, "Look what he had to work with in those two years." I did. There's no excuse for those offenses to have been that bad and that conservative.

I'm saying all of this as someone who's always liked Butch and would be celebrating along with everyone else if he ends up being the hire. But valid criticism and concern about the type of offense he'd bring isn't unwarranted, IMO.
 
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his eye for talent is second to none. but that isn't even why I think Butch is the best option. I think he realizes that he'll need to surround himself with a coaching staff that is COMPETENT, hungry, and aggressive. Butch also has a huge chip on his shoulder. He is hungry to finish what he started here.

Butch is the answer fellas. No one else.

Part of the concern is that the OC he hired at UNC and stuck with for his entire tenure there (Shoop) was the complete opposite of all three of those traits. Shoop is one of the most conservative OCs on the face of the earth. He's on the verge of getting run out of town at Purdue of all places because of his continued incompetence and stubbornly conservative nature.

Check out what Purdue's SB Nation site had to say about Shoop after their blowout loss to Virginia Tech a couple weeks ago:

So yes, let's talk about the offense. Could offensive genius John Shoop have called a worse game? Your average playcalling session:

- Incomplete on first down
- Run Markell Jones or D.J. Knox into the heart of a ridiculously tough defense on second down.
- Incompletion by Austin Appleby on third down
- Punt.

It was blatantly obvious to everyone even before the game that you could not run into the teeth of this defensive line. It was only the strong point of a very good defense. In fact, what little success Purdue did have in running the ball came on the few plays it ran to the edge or involved misdirection. But what did Shoop do? "Hey! We got stuffed up the middle, but it will work next time!"

As mentioned above, Butch and Shoop's offenses at UNC were complete disasters. Yes, it was UNC. But talent wasn't the issue and those total offense rankings are too abysmal to ignore. Butch hired some really good assistants a long time ago, but his most recent OC hire was a glaring misfire. For as much as fans have rightfully argued that our current defense is a match made in **** for this program, we can't afford to be behind the times and conservative offensively anymore either.

When you're going to a basketball program, and the previous year the football team went 3-9, it's a bit difficult to pull super performances out of a real fresh team, many who only got offers from UNC.

However, you look at his last year at UNC, look at it honestly - and had UNC not completely screwed it up - that final 8-5 year would have won at least two more games had he had his starters. And had he been there yet another year - well, he would have made a real showing.

You don't understand that you can only do what you have the players capable of doing. Conservative play calling? Look at what he had to work with early on at UNC.

Oh. That's right. He still used to kick our asses.

I never mentioned their offensive performance in his first year at any point in this thread for the exact reason you specified in your opening sentence.

A UNC offense with first-round WR Hakeem Nicks, three other skill players who are still in the NFL (though Tate should be excluded from the discussion since he missed 7 games that year due to injury), and a no-worse-than-average college QB who stayed in the NFL for four years (Yates) ranked 92nd in the country in total offense in 2008. 92nd.

Nicks and Tate were gone the following year, but in Butch's third season -- when he had multiple full classes of his own recruits -- they ranked 108th offensively. Their offense was utterly atrocious in Years 2 and 3. And you'd be hard pressed finding anyone with anything positive to say about Shoop, who's currently wearing out his welcome as the OC at Purdue.

Completely agree that they would've had a shot at a 10-win season in 2010 had it not been for those suspensions. But those offensive performances in 2008 and 2009 can't just be dismissed by saying, "Look what he had to work with in those two years." I did. There's no excuse for those offenses to have been that bad and that conservative.

I'm saying all of this as someone who's always liked Butch and would be celebrating along with everyone else if he ends up being the hire. But valid criticism and concern about the type of offense he'd bring isn't unwarranted, IMO.[/QUOTE]

Have a little faith, have a little faith.

Butch has been out among a ton of colleges, looking at every kind of offense and defense you can think of, and knows the coaches and coordinators.

He'll bring in the right people. He'll get it done.
 
"his returning is no guarantee of success."

There is no guarantee of success with anyone.
Just different degrees of uncertainty.
 
This is all BS. When you think of UNC football talent before Butch, think of what Shannon had when he took over the UM job. No QB other than Kyle Wright, not a single NFL receiver on the team. Do you not remember Lance Legget? He was the best of the worst crop of receivers in UM history. They were so bad, Shannon ran like 40 times against NC State because, after Wright was destroyed because they had no OL after years of Coker neglecting the position, Kirby Freeman was a starter. And when we could have won that game, Freeman could not even complete a 10 yard pass to a wide open receiver who of course had no ability to catch the ball even if it were remotely thrown near him. When Butch started at UNC he actually had it worse than Shannon. ZERO talent there. UNC is, and always will be, a BASKETBALL school. Unlike Florida, no kid grows up in NC and dreams of winning a national championship in football at UNC. All of that is fact. And what has happened at UNC since Butch left? They have had no defense because they have 0 talent on that side of the ball.

Yes, Butch is a defensive genius. He is not an offensive guru. But what has been Miami's weakness for the last decade? A **** poor defense, especially the last 5 years. Offensive records against our defense have been repeatedly set against us during Al Golden's tenure. Ask Bernie Kosar what it was like to have the high flying offense and no defense during his 2nd year at UM. You can't win without a solid D. That is what needs to be fixed. Butch will fix that. He will immediately restore RESPECTABILITY on that side of the ball. I think he has been around the game long enough that I am more than willing to take the chance that he will find the right guy to help KAAYA be the future pro he is meant to be.
 
Safe pick no more experiments.

This.

As much as my man crush on Herman grows bigger and bigger with each passing day, Butch is the safest pick. The only real concern is what OC he's bring and the type of offence they plan to run. Beside that, we know he can deal with anything else because he's done it before in a way worse situation.

If somehow, someway, he could convince Stitt to take the OC job and come prove himself with the big boys, we'd be back in the playoff picture next season for sure
 
Safe pick? What makes him a safe pick? What has done recently in this current form of college football? Seems yall just want a steady 8-9 win team every year with a CHANCE to make a playoff push or do you want to take a chance on a guy that will bring you there every year, i like butch i wouldnt mind the hire but i really dont see him taking us there on a consistent basis imo
 
Safe pick? What makes him a safe pick? What has done recently in this current form of college football? Seems yall just want a steady 8-9 win team every year with a CHANCE to make a playoff push or do you want to take a chance on a guy that will bring you there every year, i like butch i wouldnt mind the hire but i really dont see him taking us there on a consistent basis imo

6901825803_2e0ec67582.webp
 
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Safe pick? What makes him a safe pick? What has done recently in this current form of college football? Seems yall just want a steady 8-9 win team every year with a CHANCE to make a playoff push or do you want to take a chance on a guy that will bring you there every year, i like butch i wouldnt mind the hire but i really dont see him taking us there on a consistent basis imo

Why not? He previously built a team here that won 34 straight and went to 4 straight BCS bowl games.
 
Safe pick? What makes him a safe pick? What has done recently in this current form of college football? Seems yall just want a steady 8-9 win team every year with a CHANCE to make a playoff push or do you want to take a chance on a guy that will bring you there every year, i like butch i wouldnt mind the hire but i really dont see him taking us there on a consistent basis imo

View attachment 32538

no counter? Just a pic? Where you around during butch's first years? Did you see what he did at UNC with a bunch of first rounders? You stuck in the 2000s? And im JD in the moring type guy not milk
 
Safe pick? What makes him a safe pick? What has done recently in this current form of college football? Seems yall just want a steady 8-9 win team every year with a CHANCE to make a playoff push or do you want to take a chance on a guy that will bring you there every year, i like butch i wouldnt mind the hire but i really dont see him taking us there on a consistent basis imo

Why not? He previously built a team here that won 34 straight and went to 4 straight BCS bowl games.

He only coached one year of that team, the team was so talented coker won with them, also a different era when talent won you games, its not just that now a days you need more than that
 
Ill take the hire but ill be cautiously optimistic, depending on who he hires as his assistants will determine how well we will be
 
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