Wisconsin officially sues Miami over Xavier Lucas

Right but you see how if his name was in portal and we followed all rules then they’d still be suing us for the same thing which is the problem. By that standard literally every single school that added a portal player should get sued tomorrow
I get it, but their allegations are that since he was “not in the portal” and therefore a “student-athlete at UW,” then we legally could not tortuously interfere with his NIL contract.

But of course, they first have to prove that the contract was valid.
 
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But never in the portal is purely an NCAA rule whereas theirs entire argument basically hinges on NCAA rules not mattering otherwise they’d be blatantly in the wrong for even having him sign a contract that brakes NCAA regulations in the first place. So how do those two things go together, which is also why they are suing Miami and not Lucas. Had he entered the portal what exact reason would Wisconsin have to not bring this exact same lawsuit? Honestly have no idea but it seems to me if the entire premise of the lawsuit is tampering because we met prior to portal, well the portal isn’t a real law either lol… portal is actually less relevant than NCAA rules regarding pay tbh….


Allow me to address "tampering". And "poaching". Because those are certainly dirty words being used in news report headlines.

But what does it mean?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Miami was just sued for tortious interference with a contract. Now, having taken not one but TWO torts classes in law school, I can safely surmise that the use of the word "tortious" indicates that Wisconsin AND its Collective are alleging a tort. But will someone remind me of the elements of the tort of "tampering"? Or the tort of "poaching"?

Oh yeah, because those are dirty-**** words that have more meaning under NCAA rules than anything else. They sure as **** aren't torts.

But wait, this is a "state court tort case" and NOT an NCAA case. So the words "tampering" and "poaching" are only being used to inflame emotions, not as any sort of an independent claim in a lawsuit.

So now let's examine the ELEMENTS of "tortious interference with a contract".

1. There must be a valid contract. I could write a whole thread (and probably previously have) on why the Wisconsin AND/OR Collective contracts are invalid. So we can come back to this one later.

2. The defendant must have actual knowledge of the contract. This one is going to be HILARIOUS, and quite the challenge for Wisconsin to prove.

3. There must be intentional and improper interference that induced the party to breach. This is where Wisconsin is going to try to make all of their public-facing appeals to sympathy and anger. Interestingly, I would imagine that WISCONSIN is going to focus on the "revenue-sharing agreement" (of which I do not believe Miami has yet offered one to Lucas) and the COLLECTIVE is likely going to focus on the bridge NIL deal that was intended to get Wisconsin from December 2024 to "House settlement salad days". This one will be interesting.

4. There must be a breach of contract. OK, sure. Though it will be fun to look at the SEVEN DAY length of the contract without the judge and/or jury thinking "why in the **** am I stuck in this courtroom again?".

5. The plaintiff must have suffered actual harm or damages. Good lord, this one is ALSO going to be hilarious. SEVEN DAYS. Please Wisconsin, tell us about allllll those pecuniary and reputational damages...this is going to be like the end of National Lampoon's Vacation, when the Walley World security guards are complaining to Roy Walley about how Clark Griswold "treated them like dogs".

I believe that Wisconsin AND the Collective will fail on anywhere from one to four of the elements of tortious interference. This should be an easy win for Miami, regardless of all the fear-mongering about "what will come out in discovery". If there is no valid contract, no knowledge of a contract, and no damages, it doesn't matter HOW MUCH "intentional and improper interference" that Wisconsin and the Collective allege.

Wuck Fisconsin.
 
The court held the 11th Amendment doesn’t apply when the state is a plaintiff. The court determined that it didn’t have jurisdiction because the defendant did not establish diversity. It didn’t explain why very well—presumably the insurance company was also an Idaho citizen. But I don’t think that case would preclude removal in this situation where there is diversity of citizenship.


Also, please be aware there are TWO plaintiffs. UW, which MIGHT NOT be a "citizen" for purposes of diversity, and THE COLLECTIVE, which is certainly not a "citizen" for purposes of diversity.

Furthermore, it can be argued that UW's "contract" for sports revenue-sharing is not a function of them acting as an "arm of the state", and such a contract (and the university entering into it) may cause UW to be regarded as a "citizen" for purposes of this lawsuit.
 
The B10’s statement is really gross to me. These schools and conferences have all the power, flash all this money and resources at these kids, many of them who come from NOTHING and can’t afford an attorney or representation to help them understand the agreements they’re signing.

And then UW made Lucas sign these:

(From Yahoo article)

“The revenue-share agreement, a Big Ten-issued template form, binds Lucas — and all players who sign — to that specific school and grants that school a player’s non-exclusive rights to use and market their name, image and likeness. WHICH THEY DID NOT DO FOR THE SEVEN DAYS BETWEEN SIGNING AND REPUDIATION. The agreement prohibits the player’s rights to be used by any other school while permitting him or her to sign outside marking agreements, according to those familiar with the template.

Lucas also signed an NIL agreement with the collective to compensate him until the university could legally, within settlement terms, compensate him with revenue starting in July. In the suit, Wisconsin describes Lucas’ promised payment as “substantial” and one of the highest among Badgers football players.“

Come on now. What a joke. No attorney would let their client simultaneously sign both of those.


Wisconsin and the Collective are going to have a tough time proving EITHER of the contracts were valid, or that consideration was given, or that there was knowledge by UM, or that there were any damages for those momentous seven days.

Full stop.
 
This is a much more accurate statement than the bull**** that @Gennaker Cane vomited out.

However, there are some interesting elements to discuss.

FIRST, is that it is NOT JUST "the University of Wisconsin" that is the plaintiff. It is ALSO their collective that is a named plaintiff. So you have a very interesting (and possibly novel) question of whether an entity that is NOT an arm of the state (the Collective) can gin its way into "sovereign-immunity/non-citizen-status" by joining with a state institution as joint plaintiffs in a lawsuit. Similarly, one could argue that "the state" (University of Wisconsin) cannot extend ITS sovereign-immunity/non-citizen-status to another non-state entity by filing as a joint plaintiff.

SECOND, you can also use the role of the COLLECTIVE to show that the University of Wisconsin is NOT acting as "an arm of the state" in this situation at all, but they are entering into a joint venture of sorts which should NOT enjoy the benefit of "sovereign-immunity/non-citizen-status". The US Constitution, the Eleventh Amendment, and the various rules on "citizenship-status" were not intended to apply to situations where a state university joins with another entity in a venture that goes beyond "arm of the state" types of activities.

Until seeing some of the details of the allegations, it is also hard to know how much of the "contracts" were entered into by the Collective vs. the University of Wisconsin. Having spoken with a few Wisconsin attorneys on the Wisconsin boards back in December-January, I know some things about how this deal was conceptualized and presented that go beyond "newspaper article" summaries.

Finally, we can look to the overall "agreement" (I won't even use the word "contract" here) to try to assess what in the **** Wisconsin thinks they can pursue, no matter the venue.

From all indications, it would appear that Xavier Lucas "signed" a document on December 12th and then effectively repudiated it on December 19th when he texted his intention to enter the transfer Portal.

So what happened in this MAGICAL 7-day period when Wisconsin suffered GRIEVOUS HARM? Yeah, that's a funny one.

We all know that the Big 10 developed a common template agreement to try to transition from "old NIL" to "future not-yet-in-existence revenue sharing". Fine. And from statements made by Darren Heitner and others, hundreds of Big 10 athletes were presented templates, many of which their agents/attorneys red-lined before signing. OK.

But in the case of Xavier Lucas, a teenager over a thousand miles from his home, he was presented the template agreement from Wisconsin and pressured to sign it during final exams, without meeting with his family, without meeting with any legal or contractual representatives. And somehow, without alleging ANYTHING that Wisconsin did between December 12th and December 19th, they would have us believe that they suffered massive pecuniary and "reputational" damages from ONE player submitting paperwork to enter the Portal.

How?

---Did Wisconsin print thousands of Xavier Lucas football jerseys during that one week period that they are now forced to sell at 90% discount?
---Did Wisconsin recruit/sign any HS or Portal players or FAIL TO recruit/sign any HS or Portal players based on their one-week detrimental reliance on Xavier Lucas's apparent promise to return to Wisconsin?
---Did Wisconsin suddenly "lose" any roster players or potential recruits because of the "reputational harm" created by ONE player entering the transfer Portal during a period when he was ALLOWED to enter the transfer portal?

What Wisconsin would have us believe is that Xavier Lucas absolutely wanted to remain at Wisconsin BUT FOR the tampering and devious behavior of the Evil Miami Minions. Wisconsin wants you to ignore geography (Lucas is from SoFla), family issues (sick relative), friends (guys he once played with who are on the Miami roster), and any possibility that a week-later realization that Wisconsin had taken advantage of Xavier Lucas's young age and minimal legal knowledge to convince him to sign a grossly one-sided contract. Wisconsin wants you to believe that a teenager being asked to sign a contract CONTINGENT on a major court case that had not yet been decided was some sort of well-reasoned adult decision to enter into a contract, a contract that should be enforced by a court regardless of the massive power/financial disparity between the parties, and without Xavier Lucas being offered the advice to consult with his attorney and/or a tax professional.

Even worse, it is not even apparent that the agreement forms an enforceable contract whatsoever. In the first place, it was ALWAYS contingent upon a future SPECULATIVE event that had not even happened (the House settlement). Second, based on comments from various parties that no money was paid during the magical week of December 12th to December 19th, it does not appear that any CONSIDERATION was paid to Xavier Lucas that would represent the bare minimum necessity for Wisconsion to have entered into a contract. Finally, without seeing the actual "contract" (or "contracts") that would bind the DIFFERENT plaintiffs (the University AND the Collective), it is impossible to tell what was intended and whether the parties were actually bound in agreement, or if instead, it was an agreement to agree upon something in the future when some other event happened that was not certain to happen.

Finally, we look at the damages. And for the life of me, I cannot fathom how a magical ONE WEEK PERIOD caused Wisconsin ANY DAMAGES WHATSOEVER. Sure, it sucks to lose a talented player. I get it. And it definitely sucks to lose him to his hometown school where he will be surrounded by friends or family, and where Wisconsin loses the ability to keep him isolated from his world by living in Madison. But Wisconsin never paid Xavier Lucas a dime under the contract(s) they claim he knowingly entered into. We know **** well that they didn't give him a cent of "revenue-sharing" that was unapproved and hasn't even come into being yet, 7 months later. So until Wisconsin tells us what was "done" in one week that cannot be "undone" without the payment of pecuniary damages, we can safely assume that number is zero-point-zero.

At the end of the day, all Wisconsin has is a signature. And they want us all to believe that the signature was fairly given for adequate consideration, when we all know that simply didn't happen. Wisconsin wants us to believe that a teenager in the middle of final exams INTENDED to be bound by a future lawsuit settlement that he didn't understand at all. And that his signature, outside of the consultation of his family and advisors, should be enforced as if it was an ordinary average business contract entered into by two sophisticated and well-advised business entities.

It's crap. All Wisconsin has to offer is a "conflicting" statement made by a family member of Xavier's, and not Xavier himself. Sure, Wisconsin wants everyone to honor Xavier's signature when his family was cut out of the discussion, but then put all the weight on the words of a single family member when its apparent "conflicting nature" suits Wisconsin's needs.

It's all bull****. It's gonna take a bit of time for a logical and rational judge to sort through the irrelevant bits, but this should go in Miami's favor relatively easily.

Call Jaret Davis and get Greenberg Traurig on retainer, stat.
Someone must have ****ed in your cheerios today, amigo.
This is a much more accurate statement than the bull**** that @Gennaker Cane vomited out.

However, there are some interesting elements to discuss.

FIRST, is that it is NOT JUST "the University of Wisconsin" that is the plaintiff. It is ALSO their collective that is a named plaintiff. So you have a very interesting (and possibly novel) question of whether an entity that is NOT an arm of the state (the Collective) can gin its way into "sovereign-immunity/non-citizen-status" by joining with a state institution as joint plaintiffs in a lawsuit. Similarly, one could argue that "the state" (University of Wisconsin) cannot extend ITS sovereign-immunity/non-citizen-status to another non-state entity by filing as a joint plaintiff.

SECOND, you can also use the role of the COLLECTIVE to show that the University of Wisconsin is NOT acting as "an arm of the state" in this situation at all, but they are entering into a joint venture of sorts which should NOT enjoy the benefit of "sovereign-immunity/non-citizen-status". The US Constitution, the Eleventh Amendment, and the various rules on "citizenship-status" were not intended to apply to situations where a state university joins with another entity in a venture that goes beyond "arm of the state" types of activities.

Until seeing some of the details of the allegations, it is also hard to know how much of the "contracts" were entered into by the Collective vs. the University of Wisconsin. Having spoken with a few Wisconsin attorneys on the Wisconsin boards back in December-January, I know some things about how this deal was conceptualized and presented that go beyond "newspaper article" summaries.

Finally, we can look to the overall "agreement" (I won't even use the word "contract" here) to try to assess what in the **** Wisconsin thinks they can pursue, no matter the venue.

From all indications, it would appear that Xavier Lucas "signed" a document on December 12th and then effectively repudiated it on December 19th when he texted his intention to enter the transfer Portal.

So what happened in this MAGICAL 7-day period when Wisconsin suffered GRIEVOUS HARM? Yeah, that's a funny one.

We all know that the Big 10 developed a common template agreement to try to transition from "old NIL" to "future not-yet-in-existence revenue sharing". Fine. And from statements made by Darren Heitner and others, hundreds of Big 10 athletes were presented templates, many of which their agents/attorneys red-lined before signing. OK.

But in the case of Xavier Lucas, a teenager over a thousand miles from his home, he was presented the template agreement from Wisconsin and pressured to sign it during final exams, without meeting with his family, without meeting with any legal or contractual representatives. And somehow, without alleging ANYTHING that Wisconsin did between December 12th and December 19th, they would have us believe that they suffered massive pecuniary and "reputational" damages from ONE player submitting paperwork to enter the Portal.

How?

---Did Wisconsin print thousands of Xavier Lucas football jerseys during that one week period that they are now forced to sell at 90% discount?
---Did Wisconsin recruit/sign any HS or Portal players or FAIL TO recruit/sign any HS or Portal players based on their one-week detrimental reliance on Xavier Lucas's apparent promise to return to Wisconsin?
---Did Wisconsin suddenly "lose" any roster players or potential recruits because of the "reputational harm" created by ONE player entering the transfer Portal during a period when he was ALLOWED to enter the transfer portal?

What Wisconsin would have us believe is that Xavier Lucas absolutely wanted to remain at Wisconsin BUT FOR the tampering and devious behavior of the Evil Miami Minions. Wisconsin wants you to ignore geography (Lucas is from SoFla), family issues (sick relative), friends (guys he once played with who are on the Miami roster), and any possibility that a week-later realization that Wisconsin had taken advantage of Xavier Lucas's young age and minimal legal knowledge to convince him to sign a grossly one-sided contract. Wisconsin wants you to believe that a teenager being asked to sign a contract CONTINGENT on a major court case that had not yet been decided was some sort of well-reasoned adult decision to enter into a contract, a contract that should be enforced by a court regardless of the massive power/financial disparity between the parties, and without Xavier Lucas being offered the advice to consult with his attorney and/or a tax professional.

Even worse, it is not even apparent that the agreement forms an enforceable contract whatsoever. In the first place, it was ALWAYS contingent upon a future SPECULATIVE event that had not even happened (the House settlement). Second, based on comments from various parties that no money was paid during the magical week of December 12th to December 19th, it does not appear that any CONSIDERATION was paid to Xavier Lucas that would represent the bare minimum necessity for Wisconsion to have entered into a contract. Finally, without seeing the actual "contract" (or "contracts") that would bind the DIFFERENT plaintiffs (the University AND the Collective), it is impossible to tell what was intended and whether the parties were actually bound in agreement, or if instead, it was an agreement to agree upon something in the future when some other event happened that was not certain to happen.

Finally, we look at the damages. And for the life of me, I cannot fathom how a magical ONE WEEK PERIOD caused Wisconsin ANY DAMAGES WHATSOEVER. Sure, it sucks to lose a talented player. I get it. And it definitely sucks to lose him to his hometown school where he will be surrounded by friends or family, and where Wisconsin loses the ability to keep him isolated from his world by living in Madison. But Wisconsin never paid Xavier Lucas a dime under the contract(s) they claim he knowingly entered into. We know **** well that they didn't give him a cent of "revenue-sharing" that was unapproved and hasn't even come into being yet, 7 months later. So until Wisconsin tells us what was "done" in one week that cannot be "undone" without the payment of pecuniary damages, we can safely assume that number is zero-point-zero.

At the end of the day, all Wisconsin has is a signature. And they want us all to believe that the signature was fairly given for adequate consideration, when we all know that simply didn't happen. Wisconsin wants us to believe that a teenager in the middle of final exams INTENDED to be bound by a future lawsuit settlement that he didn't understand at all. And that his signature, outside of the consultation of his family and advisors, should be enforced as if it was an ordinary average business contract entered into by two sophisticated and well-advised business entities.

It's crap. All Wisconsin has to offer is a "conflicting" statement made by a family member of Xavier's, and not Xavier himself. Sure, Wisconsin wants everyone to honor Xavier's signature when his family was cut out of the discussion, but then put all the weight on the words of a single family member when its apparent "conflicting nature" suits Wisconsin's needs.

It's all bull****. It's gonna take a bit of time for a logical and rational judge to sort through the irrelevant bits, but this should go in Miami's favor relatively easily.

Call Jaret Davis and get Greenberg Traurig on retainer, stat.y p
FFS, amigo, your diversity argument was as wrong as my Eleventh argument. There are always arguments, and what you present for diversity jurisdiction is a creative one, but I still think this fight will occur in state court. Nonetheless, liability and damages are going to be a stretch for the plaintiffs, good analysis of those issues.
 
I can’t imagine we’ll get a fair hearing in Wisconsin against Wisconsin. Can it be removed to a federal court?


I've addressed this in a couple of posts. VERY possibly, depending on what is argued and how.

We are NOT just being sued by UW, but by UW AND THE COLLECTIVE. This alone might destroy the notion of "UW as an arm of the state, and not an independent citizen of the state".
 
None of this absolves Wisconsin from not filing his portal paperwork though…why is this side of the story gone suddenly.

**** em
Because NCAA bylaws have zero to do with contract law.

It just doesn’t matter anymore that Wisconsin didn’t file his paperwork, unless UW had to file his portal paperwork as a term of the NIL contract. And I am sure that was nowhere in the contract.

Y’all need to stop thinking about the portal and the NCAA bylaws. The ONLY reason those will come into the case is as a part of the facts for UW to show UM induced Lucas to break his NIL contract. Otherwise, they aren’t relevant to the main issues.

UW and the collective are suing UM only for tortious interference of Lucas’s contract. This is a civil claim for when a party illegally interferes with a contractual business relationship and causes a breach. It requires a valid contract to be in place.

So the contract and breach here (allegedly) is the NIL agreement they made - predicated upon the future House settlement. THAT is the purpose for the suit. They want to set precedent for the Big 10 model agreement that they had everyone sign BEFORE THE HOUSE SETTLEMENT WAS FINAL.
 
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Someone must have ****ed in your cheerios today, amigo.

FFS, amigo, your diversity argument was as wrong as my Eleventh argument. There are always arguments, and what you present for diversity jurisdiction is a creative one, but I still think this fight will occur in state court. Nonetheless, liability and damages are going to be a stretch for the plaintiffs, good analysis of those issues.


Go **** off. You don't know **** about my "diversity argument".

Again, I have known for MONTHS that there were two "contracts". I've posted about that on other threads. So to sit here and yap about "Eleventh Amendment" stuff when you were absolutely wrong is comical.

And I have no idea whether you ever attended law school. But as any DECENT law student would tell you, 12(b)(6) becomes a running joke among law students. It is shorthand for dismissing something without being bogged down by the details. It was not, as you misperceived, a literal claim that the case absolutely would go to federal court. It's a joke which flew way over your head.

Having said that, I absolutely believe this case can and should be removed to federal court, even if based solely upon the Collective being one of the Plaintiffs. This is a contractual scheme involving TWO contracts, and only one of them could even be argued to be operative, valid, and/or enforceable in December 2024. It was literally impossible to enforce the rev-share agreement with UW in December 2024. ****, the University of Wisconsin should be DISMISSED from the lawsuit as a plaintiff, having no valid contract as of December 2024.

Just acknowledge your ****-up without being worried about anyone else. I know what I'm talking about, I've done way more examination of this issue, since December 2024, than you have, what with your "I'm pretty sure the 11th Amendment applies" nonsense.
 
You would be very wrong if you thought the first sentence you wrote is true.
But the impediment is, as was stated above, subject matter jurisdiction, as there is no diversity without citizens of different state on each side, and there is no obvious federal question presented. So, we were both wrong on our initial assessment of the issue, and both right on a couple of procedural points. Good debate, amigo.


No.

You were wrong in your belief about the 11th Amendment.

And you were also wrong in thinking you understood what I was saying.

Me being right and you being doubly-wrong is not much of a debate, friend-o.
 
The collective is not protected by sovereign immunity. The only reason they filed it in state court was to try to see if UM ****ed up but of course it will get removed.

This isn’t a law school civ pro exam. Wtf are we even talking about?
 
Lucas requested admission to the transfer portal, this is provided for in the NCAA bylaws for NIL and the University of Wisconsin has no latitude in the process. The athlete makes the request and school complies. Unfortunately, Wisconsin chose not to comply, after Lucas received legal advice from his attorney, he transferred to Miami. Wisconsin violated the rights of Lucas under the law. They will look like fools when the process is completed. Sorry for Lucas and UM that they have to deal with a school that chose not to comply with the rules enforce at the time entering the portal.


Wait, wait, wait, you mean Wisconsin can't cite a "conflicting" statement made by a family member of Xavier Lucas three days later in order to justify the failure to submit his transfer portal paperwork?

Wow...ya learn something new every day...


:ROFLMAO:
 
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