Wide Receiver is our 2nd weakest position by far! (and nobody is talking about it)

n.firestone

Recruit
Joined
Mar 16, 2014
Messages
7
If you go position by position we all know that we have massive OL issues (OT, both OGs) but people are talking it. The other major question marks are CB, LB and Striker. However, if you look at some of the players at these positions, they either have guys with upside (guys who have data points that make you excited or ok about them) or their lack of productivity doesn't hurt the team as much.

Our WR performance gets excused for bad play design, poor blocking and shaky QB play. IMO the biggest problem with our WR room is that the guys who are slated to play a lot are our least talented WRs with limited upside and/or serious downside. They do not create separation consistently which is the biggest driver of consistency. While they have made the occasional big play (create the illusion that they have upside), they consistently make mistakes and can't get open or win on their routes against mediocre competition.

WR:
"The starters" / "vets":
1. Mike Harley - by all accounts a hard worker and a good guy, he is just is a rotational WR at best. Does not have any strength or wiggle, doesn't break tackles and doesn't create separation outside of the occasional deeper route (even against bad teams). Not a horrible player, but is small and really has just about maxed out his abilities. Has made countless mistakes leading to TOs over the years and loses in almost any 50/50 ball.

2. Dee Wiggins - People remember the Louisville and FSU games where he was catching long tds creating a false narrative that he has upside and is good. Off memory I can think of at least 3 interceptions (1 weak slant vs FIU, 1 weak 'go' in end zone vs VT, 1 weak out in the end zone vs VT) that were completely his fault for running weak routes, not creating separation. Similar to Harley, just way too easy to cover. Another reason why we weren't scoring points against horrible teams.

3. Mark Pope - I do think Pope has SOME upside in that he has some cutting ability that can make defenders miss in the open field and help him get open. The problem is that he is way too small, weak and not trustworthy! A bad blocker, has BARELY flashed in his first 2 years which does not to make me confident that he is going to take a big step forward. Consistency seems like a long way off.

The issue with these 3 guys is that they played a ton last year and the guys behind them are extremely young with no experience. I worry that the coaching staff uses this dilemma to playing the more experienced guys who won't make as many 'mistakes' but will continue to have us struggling to move the ball and get open.
There is definitely some talent in the young WRs but my biggest concern is size, and playing time cus of the group above.
  • Payton: most important WR on the roster. Need him to step up immediately considering the positive reviews in practice
  • Redding: looks most physically ready to play. Looks strong and decent get off at the line. Will definitely play
  • K Smith: Looks good too with cutting ability but extremely skinny so I don't know how much to trust him to play right away
  • Restrepo: If you watch his film he has good initial burst and get-off. Wouldn't surprise me to see him make plays but he's so small that it also wouldn't surprise me to see him sit in favor of the older group
  • Worsham - if it was based on his junior year I would feel good about him, but his senior year post hip surgery was worrisome and I am not counting on him now
Takeaway: if we don't play the kids we will lose MULTIPLE games because of our WRs inability to get open and make consistent plays.

Other concerns overrated:
CB: like upside of Couch, Williams, Dunson and think Ivey (who sucked last year) has tools to be serviceable if not good. With blades this group should be ok against everyone but top wrs (UNC worries me) and we have the DL who hopefully can manufacture pressure.
Striker: If Frierson plays too much we are in trouble. Slow and bad angles! I love Keonta and think he needs to be the guy who can help improve team speed, tackling and play making
LB: Brooks looked fast late in the year so hopefully he can be at least serviceable. If not we have Huff, and other young LBs. As long as RAGONE doesn't sniff the field and McCloud stays health it shouldn't hurt us too much
 

pacusmc

Freshman
Joined
Aug 27, 2016
Messages
6,371
I hope everyone goes after our qb. I want a bunch of corner blitzes. Please everyone bring the house on every play. I beg you!!
 

Dill22002

Recruit
Joined
Jul 22, 2012
Messages
46
Personally, I’m MORE worried about WR than OL. Harley cannot be a number one receiver on any winning team.

Brevin and Mallory need to carry the load.

I’m also hoping that Lashlee sees these limitations and adjusts his offense accordingly, something Enos could never figure out.
 

TimeB0mb

Junior
Joined
Nov 29, 2015
Messages
6,393
If you go position by position we all know that we have massive OL issues (OT, both OGs) but people are talking it. The other major question marks are CB, LB and Striker. However, if you look at some of the players at these positions, they either have guys with upside (guys who have data points that make you excited or ok about them) or their lack of productivity doesn't hurt the team as much.

Our WR performance gets excused for bad play design, poor blocking and shaky QB play. IMO the biggest problem with our WR room is that the guys who are slated to play a lot are our least talented WRs with limited upside and/or serious downside. They do not create separation consistently which is the biggest driver of consistency. While they have made the occasional big play (create the illusion that they have upside), they consistently make mistakes and can't get open or win on their routes against mediocre competition.

WR:
"The starters" / "vets":
1. Mike Harley - by all accounts a hard worker and a good guy, he is just is a rotational WR at best. Does not have any strength or wiggle, doesn't break tackles and doesn't create separation outside of the occasional deeper route (even against bad teams). Not a horrible player, but is small and really has just about maxed out his abilities. Has made countless mistakes leading to TOs over the years and loses in almost any 50/50 ball.

2. Dee Wiggins - People remember the Louisville and FSU games where he was catching long tds creating a false narrative that he has upside and is good. Off memory I can think of at least 3 interceptions (1 weak slant vs FIU, 1 weak 'go' in end zone vs VT, 1 weak out in the end zone vs VT) that were completely his fault for running weak routes, not creating separation. Similar to Harley, just way too easy to cover. Another reason why we weren't scoring points against horrible teams.

3. Mark Pope - I do think Pope has SOME upside in that he has some cutting ability that can make defenders miss in the open field and help him get open. The problem is that he is way too small, weak and not trustworthy! A bad blocker, has BARELY flashed in his first 2 years which does not to make me confident that he is going to take a big step forward. Consistency seems like a long way off.

The issue with these 3 guys is that they played a ton last year and the guys behind them are extremely young with no experience. I worry that the coaching staff uses this dilemma to playing the more experienced guys who won't make as many 'mistakes' but will continue to have us struggling to move the ball and get open.
There is definitely some talent in the young WRs but my biggest concern is size, and playing time cus of the group above.
  • Payton: most important WR on the roster. Need him to step up immediately considering the positive reviews in practice
  • Redding: looks most physically ready to play. Looks strong and decent get off at the line. Will definitely play
  • K Smith: Looks good too with cutting ability but extremely skinny so I don't know how much to trust him to play right away
  • Restrepo: If you watch his film he has good initial burst and get-off. Wouldn't surprise me to see him make plays but he's so small that it also wouldn't surprise me to see him sit in favor of the older group
  • Worsham - if it was based on his junior year I would feel good about him, but his senior year post hip surgery was worrisome and I am not counting on him now
Takeaway: if we don't play the kids we will lose MULTIPLE games because of our WRs inability to get open and make consistent plays.

Other concerns overrated:
CB: like upside of Couch, Williams, Dunson and think Ivey (who sucked last year) has tools to be serviceable if not good. With blades this group should be ok against everyone but top wrs (UNC worries me) and we have the DL who hopefully can manufacture pressure.
Striker: If Frierson plays too much we are in trouble. Slow and bad angles! I love Keonta and think he needs to be the guy who can help improve team speed, tackling and play making
LB: Brooks looked fast late in the year so hopefully he can be at least serviceable. If not we have Huff, and other young LBs. As long as RAGONE doesn't sniff the field and McCloud stays health it shouldn't hurt us too much
Unknown, not weak. I think our WRs are much better suited for a Lashlee style O than Enos. They were recruited for a PA or RPO based offense, though. I think they exceed expectations.
 

n.firestone

Recruit
Joined
Mar 16, 2014
Messages
7
Unknown, not weak. I think our WRs are much better suited for a Lashlee style O than Enos. They were recruited for a PA or RPO based offense, though. I think they exceed expectations.
I believe that the thing that makes it the weakest is that the vets who are slated to play a lot are known and are not good. The other positions are more open for a young guy to come in and take over the starting role.
 

Go Canes!!

All ACC
Joined
Feb 27, 2018
Messages
7,426
I believe that the thing that makes it the weakest is that the vets who are slated to play a lot are known and are not good. The other positions are more open for a young guy to come in and take over the starting role.
You say "not good" based on what? When our shitty QBs delivered they caught it and scored as well as anyone out there.
 

twes.305

Senior
Joined
Aug 18, 2018
Messages
3,286
I think CB will be fine. I say this because I think the DLine is gonna help. I also believe that Blades is gonna step up and Williams, Couch are gonna do their thing. Ivey does not have to be the most athletic person to succeed as a CB in the ACC, he needs to learn how to use his size and length to his advantage, if he can do that he should make a huge jump next season. Barring injuries, I think the CB position will be fine. The striker position will be fine as well, Frierson and Keontra will hold it down. LB is definitely a concern though.
 

Da Jumbo Mutombo

Freshman
Joined
Jun 15, 2020
Messages
125
Harley does struggle with separation which is worrisome considering he should be a seperation king with his quickness at the slot.

Wiggins, has great deep speed. He may be a one trick pony, but that trick will be vital in this new scheme.

Pope will blow up this year. Just has to improve focus drops.

In regard to calling Frierson slow, I'm sorry what? Lol. That's absurd. Frierson played great last year in his time. Only player that made him look slow was Tutu Atwell and that's ok. Gator bomb wasnt all on Frierson, and CBs (so give a striker a break) get bombed all the time, it happens.
 

canesarchitect

Freshman
Joined
Feb 5, 2013
Messages
1,666
If you go position by position we all know that we have massive OL issues (OT, both OGs) but people are talking it. The other major question marks are CB, LB and Striker. However, if you look at some of the players at these positions, they either have guys with upside (guys who have data points that make you excited or ok about them) or their lack of productivity doesn't hurt the team as much.

Our WR performance gets excused for bad play design, poor blocking and shaky QB play. IMO the biggest problem with our WR room is that the guys who are slated to play a lot are our least talented WRs with limited upside and/or serious downside. They do not create separation consistently which is the biggest driver of consistency. While they have made the occasional big play (create the illusion that they have upside), they consistently make mistakes and can't get open or win on their routes against mediocre competition.

WR:
"The starters" / "vets":
1. Mike Harley - by all accounts a hard worker and a good guy, he is just is a rotational WR at best. Does not have any strength or wiggle, doesn't break tackles and doesn't create separation outside of the occasional deeper route (even against bad teams). Not a horrible player, but is small and really has just about maxed out his abilities. Has made countless mistakes leading to TOs over the years and loses in almost any 50/50 ball.

2. Dee Wiggins - People remember the Louisville and FSU games where he was catching long tds creating a false narrative that he has upside and is good. Off memory I can think of at least 3 interceptions (1 weak slant vs FIU, 1 weak 'go' in end zone vs VT, 1 weak out in the end zone vs VT) that were completely his fault for running weak routes, not creating separation. Similar to Harley, just way too easy to cover. Another reason why we weren't scoring points against horrible teams.

3. Mark Pope - I do think Pope has SOME upside in that he has some cutting ability that can make defenders miss in the open field and help him get open. The problem is that he is way too small, weak and not trustworthy! A bad blocker, has BARELY flashed in his first 2 years which does not to make me confident that he is going to take a big step forward. Consistency seems like a long way off.

The issue with these 3 guys is that they played a ton last year and the guys behind them are extremely young with no experience. I worry that the coaching staff uses this dilemma to playing the more experienced guys who won't make as many 'mistakes' but will continue to have us struggling to move the ball and get open.
There is definitely some talent in the young WRs but my biggest concern is size, and playing time cus of the group above.
  • Payton: most important WR on the roster. Need him to step up immediately considering the positive reviews in practice
  • Redding: looks most physically ready to play. Looks strong and decent get off at the line. Will definitely play
  • K Smith: Looks good too with cutting ability but extremely skinny so I don't know how much to trust him to play right away
  • Restrepo: If you watch his film he has good initial burst and get-off. Wouldn't surprise me to see him make plays but he's so small that it also wouldn't surprise me to see him sit in favor of the older group
  • Worsham - if it was based on his junior year I would feel good about him, but his senior year post hip surgery was worrisome and I am not counting on him now
Takeaway: if we don't play the kids we will lose MULTIPLE games because of our WRs inability to get open and make consistent plays.

Other concerns overrated:
CB: like upside of Couch, Williams, Dunson and think Ivey (who sucked last year) has tools to be serviceable if not good. With blades this group should be ok against everyone but top wrs (UNC worries me) and we have the DL who hopefully can manufacture pressure.
Striker: If Frierson plays too much we are in trouble. Slow and bad angles! I love Keonta and think he needs to be the guy who can help improve team speed, tackling and play making
LB: Brooks looked fast late in the year so hopefully he can be at least serviceable. If not we have Huff, and other young LBs. As long as RAGONE doesn't sniff the field and McCloud stays health it shouldn't hurt us too much
Too many drops.
 
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