Why Not Winston Moss

[RedSquare]

Why do these 3 experiences matter? Howard, Jimmy, and Dennis never checked these boxes. Randy Shannon did.

they don't.

it means less than zero.

(along with the success of you playing career).

what do belichick, shula, walsh, lombardi, JJ, howard, saban, all have in common??

they were of no significance as players. the idea you need to be a former NFL or cane great to be a great coach is ludicrous, but it's a popular belief on the internet.

 

[305to954]

Only on this dumbass site can you give up 14 points and people think you should be fired.

The average college football team scores about 28 PPG. That's usually pretty close to about the dead middle in PPG for the last couple years. But by all means, you definitely should be fired if your defense gives up 14. That does make total sense.

Imagine what would happen if the child geniuses here found out Clemson gave up 17 to these dudes in 2.5 quarters. Thank god that kind of info isn't readily available.

“Winston Moss defense would avg -17 ppg”- CIS

 

[nycane]

The expectation of Baker being fired for the defense’s performance since he’s been here is 1 of the most unrealistic takes that I’ve ever seen on this or any other board. I’m still waiting for someone to show me evidence of a DC ever being fired for putting up stats close to ours? It hasn’t happened and unless the D takes a massive step back to finish the season, it’s not going to happen.

And if it did somehow happen, why would any other DC want to come here where you get fired for having an above average defense? Where fans call for your job after every game, regardless of how many points the other team actually scores?

This fanbase deserves coaches like Fat Al and No D.

If they called blocks in the back and holding his stats would be even better

 

[TemplarCane]

they don't.

it means less than zero.

(along with the success of you playing career).

what do belichick, shula, walsh, lombardi, JJ, howard, saban, all have in common??

they were of no significance as players. the idea you need to be a former NFL or cane great to be a great coach is ludicrous, but it's a popular belief on the internet.

A great player that became a great HC is an outlier, really. Position coaches, maybe.

Lombardi, Landry, Noll, Shula, Walsh, Madden, Parcells, Johnson, Dungy, Gruden, Cowher, Reid, Bellichk, Shanahan, John Harbaugh, Flores...all won one or multiple Super Bowls but were at best marginal players in the NFL, or didn’t play in the NFL.

Ditka is a HOF TE but I know plenty of Bears fans who credit Buddy Ryan as much as Ditka for the Bears’ Super Bowl season. Art Shell is a HOF OT but was just okay as Raiders HC. Al Davis may have something to do with that.

 

[RedSquare]

A great player that became a great HC is an outlier, really. Position coaches, maybe.

Lombardi, Landry, Noll, Shula, Walsh, Madden, Parcells, Johnson, Dungy, Gruden, Cowher, Reid, Bellichk, Shanahan, John Harbaugh, Flores...all won one or multiple Super Bowls but were at best marginal players in the NFL, or didn’t play in the NFL.

Ditka is a HOF TE but I know plenty of Bears fans who credit Buddy Ryan as much as Ditka for the Bears’ Super Bowl season. Art Shell is a HOF OT but was just okay as Raiders HC. Al Davis may have something to do with that.

and it extends to other sports as well.

pick the 20 best all time coaches in the NFL, College Football, NBA, College Basketball, MLB, and the NHL .... show me ONE that was a Hall of Fame player in professional football, baseball, basketball, or hockey. and if you can find one, then i'm pretty sure you can't find two.

 

[JD08]

Only on this dumbass site can you give up 14 points and people think you should be fired.

The average college football team scores about 28 PPG. That's usually pretty close to about the dead middle in PPG for the last couple years. But by all means, you definitely should be fired if your defense gives up 14. That does make total sense.

Imagine what would happen if the child geniuses here found out Clemson gave up 17 to these dudes in 2.5 quarters. Thank god that kind of info isn't readily available.

You know I'm far from a mope, but my concern on defense is that our recruiting seems to be dropping off other than on the line. Arguing about development can be very subjective, but numbers don't lie and we're thin where we shouldn't be.

That's not to say that we should fire everyone, but Rumph in particular should be on notice.

 

[DTP]

A great player that became a great HC is an outlier, really. Position coaches, maybe.

Lombardi, Landry, Noll, Shula, Walsh, Madden, Parcells, Johnson, Dungy, Gruden, Cowher, Reid, Bellichk, Shanahan, John Harbaugh, Flores...all won one or multiple Super Bowls but were at best marginal players in the NFL, or didn’t play in the NFL.

Ditka is a HOF TE but I know plenty of Bears fans who credit Buddy Ryan as much as Ditka for the Bears’ Super Bowl season. Art Shell is a HOF OT but was just okay as Raiders HC. Al Davis may have something to do with that.

I think the main reason star players rarely make great coaches is that they are mostly naturally gifted and would have been great players regardless of the level of coaching they received. Imagine Barry Sanders coaching running backs. "when three defenders are in the backfield, just jump backwards, spin around and hurdle the third guy and you'll have an easy first down." The guys who maybe weren't as naturally gifted and had to rely more on strategy and film study to succeed tend to be better coaches. Ed Reed is probably one of the few former super stars who I think could make the transition to coaching because even though he was a great athlete, he was an even better student of the game. The guy always knew what was going on, what his defense was doing and what the opposing offense was about to do. Football coaches tend to try to have a "tough guy" persona but in reality they're just football nerds.

 

[Handsome Squidbum]

The expectation of Baker being fired for the defense’s performance since he’s been here is 1 of the most unrealistic takes that I’ve ever seen on this or any other board. I’m still waiting for someone to show me evidence of a DC ever being fired for putting up stats close to ours? It hasn’t happened and unless the D takes a massive step back to finish the season, it’s not going to happen.

And if it did somehow happen, why would any other DC want to come here where you get fired for having an above average defense? Where fans call for your job after every game, regardless of how many points the other team actually scores?

This fanbase deserves coaches like Fat Al and No D.

Dabo firing Kevin Steele after a 10-4 season is probably the closest thing to it. Steele's defense was top 30, but Dabo upgraded to Venables who had a top 10 D at Oklahoma. And Clemson became the Clemson of today. There was some drama also between Steele and Dabo, seems they didn't see eye to eye on certain things but I don't know what that was all about.

Supposedly Eddy O was also glad that Aranda left. Don't know if he would have fired him but it seems they didn't have a good relationship.

 

[xbobdog]

The expectation of Baker being fired for the defense’s performance since he’s been here is 1 of the most unrealistic takes that I’ve ever seen on this or any other board. I’m still waiting for someone to show me evidence of a DC ever being fired for putting up stats close to ours? It hasn’t happened and unless the D takes a massive step back to finish the season, it’s not going to happen.

And if it did somehow happen, why would any other DC want to come here where you get fired for having an above average defense? Where fans call for your job after every game, regardless of how many points the other team actually scores?

This fanbase deserves coaches like Fat Al and No D.

sorry that was supposed to be a "like"

 

[Deleted member 25719]

Dabo firing Kevin Steele after a 10-4 season is probably the closest thing to it. Steele's defense was top 30, but Dabo upgraded to Venables who had a top 10 D at Oklahoma. And Clemson became the Clemson of today. There was some drama also between Steele and Dabo, seems they didn't see eye to eye on certain things but I don't know what that was all about.

Supposedly Eddy O was also glad that Aranda left. Don't know if he would have fired him but it seems they didn't have a good relationship.

Dabo got a huge break when Mike Stoops got fired at Arizona. Bobby brought Mike back to Norman and Brent saw the handwriting on the wall and started looking. Dabo called and Brent got out of Dodge and left for Clemson. The Big 12 was becoming a tag football league Venables also got a break as recruiting as OU was getting a little tougher. Bobby, Mike and Mark were in town for a fundraiser and Bobby said D linemen and LBs were not going to OU like years past because of all the teams running spread and such in the league.

 

[TemplarCane]

Dabo firing Kevin Steele after a 10-4 season is probably the closest thing to it. Steele's defense was top 30, but Dabo upgraded to Venables who had a top 10 D at Oklahoma. And Clemson became the Clemson of today. There was some drama also between Steele and Dabo, seems they didn't see eye to eye on certain things but I don't know what that was all about.

Supposedly Eddy O was also glad that Aranda left. Don't know if he would have fired him but it seems they didn't have a good relationship.

Dabo fired Steele after West Virginia ran up 70 points against Clemson in the Orange Bowl. Clemson’s D was better than Oklahoma’s that season. OU gave up 40+ three or four times in losses, and Bob Stoops brought in his brother Mike and scapegoated Venables after that latter had won awards as a DC in previous seasons.

 

[Handsome Squidbum]

Dabo fired Steele after West Virginia ran up 70 points against Clemson in the Orange Bowl. Clemson’s D was better than Oklahoma’s that season. OU gave up 40+ three or four times in losses, and Bob Stoops brought in his brother Mike and scapegoated Venables after that latter had won awards as a DC in previous seasons.

I don't think Clemson's D was better. In PPG allowed, Venables D had a sizeable edge over Steele in 2011 (31st vs 81st). His D was also better than Steele's D in total yards allowed. Yet even with a elatively bad D, Clemson still won it's first ACC title in something like 20 years. Dabo said there were "philosophical differences" which were the reason for the firing.

Here's a pretty good article.

https://www.foxsports.com/stories/college-football/dabo-issues-existed-before-70-point-debacle

Very prescient. Dabo knew he could do better. He was extraordinarily lucky to get Venables- as you said, he was a terrific DC getting scapegoated.
Personally, I think the same thing is going to happen at Michigan with Don Brown as Harbaugh will need a scapegoat for all the losses to Ohio State. Brown is an elite DC who runs a defense similar to the Miami 4-3. Ironically, he interviewed for the Temple job that Diaz ended up getting (for all of two days). I'd do cartwheels if Diaz brought in Brown as DC.

 

[Mico Jones]

Why would he work for Manny when hes probably a better coach than Manny

 

[CaneLife93]

Liberty talked about Cincinnati’s DC, wonder if he would be on the market if there was a change this year?

 

[Memnon]

Liberty talked about Cincinnati’s DC, wonder if he would be on the market if there was a change this year?

Marcus Freeman, he's a beast.

He's a local Ohio guy though who played at Oh St & has only coached in the Midwest his entire career (Oh St, Kent St, Purdue & Cincinnati), I'm not sure he'd be interested in coming to Miami, maybe if we offered a bunch of money, but I doubt it.

 

[TemplarCane]

I don't think Clemson's D was better. In PPG allowed, Venables D had a sizeable edge over Steele in 2011 (31st vs 81st). His D was also better than Steele's D in total yards allowed. Yet even with a elatively bad D, Clemson still won it's first ACC title in something like 20 years. Dabo said there were "philosophical differences" which were the reason for the firing.

Here's a pretty good article.

https://www.foxsports.com/stories/college-football/dabo-issues-existed-before-70-point-debacle

Very prescient. Dabo knew he could do better. He was extraordinarily lucky to get Venables- as you said, he was a terrific DC getting scapegoated.
Personally, I think the same thing is going to happen at Michigan with Don Brown as Harbaugh will need a scapegoat for all the losses to Ohio State. Brown is an elite DC who runs a defense similar to the Miami 4-3. Ironically, he interviewed for the Temple job that Diaz ended up getting (for all of two days). I'd do cartwheels if Diaz brought in Brown as DC.

Maybe you’re right, but the 70 points by West Virginia coupled with Stoops pushing out Venables for Mike Stoops certainly led to a marriage made in football heaven.

Don Brown would be an awesome hire. The question is would Manny surrender control of the defense to anyone?

 

[Mel Bernstein]

Only on this dumbass site can you give up 14 points and people think you should be fired.

The average college football team scores about 28 PPG. That's usually pretty close to about the dead middle in PPG for the last couple years. But by all means, you definitely should be fired if your defense gives up 14. That does make total sense.

Imagine what would happen if the child geniuses here found out Clemson gave up 17 to these dudes in 2.5 quarters. Thank god that kind of info isn't readily available.

We’ve played one really good team and our defense was embarrassed. Most of the other teams we played didn’t even have a real QB. I’m not putting any stock in our defense with the offensive juggernauts that we’ve played so far.

 

[OrangeBowlMagic]

We’ve played one really good team and our defense was embarrassed. Most of the other teams we played didn’t even have a real QB. I’m not putting any stock in our defense with the offensive juggernauts that we’ve played so far.

Defense was embarrassed more because of the gifts we gave Clemson than the way we actually played defense. Which ultimately goes to coaching, yes. But the defense gave up 6.25 YPP to Clemson. Far from embarrassing. In case you were wondering, big bad Ohio State gave up 6.75 to those same kids a year ago in the playoffs.

I’m not going to say the defense played well, not when you ultimately give up 42 points. But embarrassing is not nearly the correct word. What was embarrassing was how the offense was flat dominated. You expect Clemson is going to get 30+ on you. They do against everyone. But it’s 2020, you have to score points to win these days. Even Saban just came out and said the same thing this week. Defense no longer wins games. Offense does. We scored 3 offensive points and ran, what? 20 plays in the first half? I’m sure I’ll get flamed for this because people really think this is 2001 around here and you’re gonna hold the best QB of this generation to 10 points or something, but that game was far more at the feet of the offense and the dumb *** penalties more than the way the defense played play in and play out.

 

[87FireCane]

Winston has a personality that may knot be good four recruiting todays yutes.

 

[ScubaCane]

Went to HS with Winston, we were on the track team together, we weren't friends but always though he was a really good dude .