Why no I formation?

Didn't Homer just run for 170 a couple weeks ago and 4.8 yards per carry last week? One bad running game and now we're hollering for the I-formation?

Plenty reasons why that's a terrible idea.


#1 - Rosier can barely make the proper reads from the gun/spread but you want him to take 5/7 step drops while reading a defense.

#2 - We don't have a real Fullback

#3 - Our RB's are good zone runners, Homer especially. He runs zone like it's supposed to be run, puts his foot in the ground and gets north. Playing RB in the Pro is a different animal.

#4 - If we're having trouble running the ball against 6 man boxes, how in the **** do you think we'll be able to run against 8/9 man boxes? LOL

#5 - We have far too much potential at the WR position to line-up with less than 3 WR's every snap. We'd be doing ourselves a disservice. Who you wanna leave on the bench while we run the Pro? Berrios? Thomas? Langham?

#6 - Pro Style is easier to defend. Not debatable. Next.

#7 - Going Pro Style would get rid of Miami's main advantage over the rest of college football...SPEED.

#8 - It's easier to disguise your defense against a Pro-Style offense. Spreading the formation out makes it more difficult for DC's to play games pre-snap. It's much easier for Rosier to identify coverages and blitzes if he's in the spread.


And finally, every concept you can run from the Pro-Style can be ran from the spread/gun. Power, Iso, Counter, etc. We're just not creative enough. If you watch a legit spread offense you'll see them utilizing H-backs, running Iso, running Power, and all other concepts that formerly were only seen in Pro-Style sets.

This and all of this. We're "hating" the run game now because it didn't work last week. There was a post here a while ago with stats (I'll see if I can find it) that many teams in the NFL are running something like 70% shotgun formation or sometimes greater (compared to like 20% 20 years ago.)

EDIT - found it: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/extra-points/2017/development-shotgun-nfl-four-tables



I also absolutely agree that the primary reason we're not using I-formation is that it would be a run every single time, because Rosier just can't read a defense right now. That's not his game. He's a one-read-and-go QB and we've been winning with it, but he is what he is.
 
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Put me in the camp of hating RPO’s. I get it that we are winning and we are using it bc it may be our best way to play given some issues but I am in the camp of the old canes pro style offense mindset.

Same here. Every game I've been irritated at the lack of I formation and all of the gorgeous permutations it allows, along with basic physical football and all the advantages that spring. We may be undefeated but our low rushing attempt numbers -- especially in the first half -- do not align with full legitimacy.

I have to laugh at the notion that top programs are using RPO, and therefore we should shut up and behold. Regardless of sport the most talented teams and individuals have enormous margin for error, and therefore can break the rules. Ali could drop his hands. Secretariat could allow the frontrunner a 10 length gap. Who cares? The 2017 Canes don't threaten to qualify. Once we have 16 first round draft choices on this roster then I'm willing to overlook coordinators who tinker and essentially amuse themselves. Right now we are life and death with mediocre programs. Those mediocre programs would be dispatched with greater ease if we actually hit somebody on offense for a change, and utilized wonderful variety off play action and actual darts over the middle to a tight end, instead of slow developing weaving runs in the backfield mixed with mindless lobs toward the deep sideline into double coverage.

The Bortles example is very good. He sucks. But the Jaguars are finding ways to reduce his vulnerabilities. Great use of sporadic I formation basics. Earlier in the year I provided a Titans link and how they use I formation and creative twists out of it, notably in the red zone.

In contrast, I never cease to laugh at spread and RPO programs that stubbornly stick to their formations and scheme, regardless of opponent, down or distance, or situation. It was hilarious to watch Mike Leach and Washington State try to pretend that 17 rushes were sufficient the other night at Arizona. I howled. Heck, in the North Carolina game on Saturday we were in jeopardy of a deficit that might have been too much to overcome, if the Tar Heels had merely altered their approach inside the 5 yard line. You even had the television commentators mocking them for remaining in the shotgun at the 1 or 2 yard line. I was laughing along with them. It reached the point I didn't care at all if a long North Carolina play busted inside the 5 yard line. As long as they had to line up again, given the style they were certain to employ they weren't guaranteed anything. Maybe a 30 yard field goal attempt after a couple of sideways rushes caved in, plus a sack.

Put a power team in the same spot and they are going to crash into the end zone with defiance.

The Canes themselves got stuck inside the 5 yard line against Georgia Tech and Syracuse. I have season tickets and sat there in disgust. No threat of a necessary blend. Alabama is one of the few teams in the country that sets aside the stubbornness and will switch from style to style based on field position and logic.

I've argued for years that Alabama can monopolize the national title in this era largely because the other programs have succumbed. If you had one brute physical and basic style after another among the most talented teams, then it's like the old days with shared titles among the blue bloods. I feared Ohio State all season in 2002 because that team was blue collar brutes all over the field, plus loads of talent. Instead, nowadays you have tinkerbell spread all over the place. Soft teams as a result. Defense is mostly lip service. Clemson needed two extreme talents in Deshaun Watson and Mike Williams to hang in there with Alabama. Good plan. Right now the most amusing game of every season is that Alabama season opener against a name brand team on a neutral site. That opponent says all the right things. They actually believe it. But during practice there is no way they can approximate the actual physicality and intensity that Alabama will bring. The game turns into a boxing match with each round more physically lopsided than the previous. I enjoy it.

I do have to say that the RPO allows occasional advantage. For example, on Saturday when North Carolina had 3 time outs and was desperate to regain the ball I was absolutely certain that Rosier would hand off twice on our final series, and then keep the ball for a first down on the third down play. Prior to the series I told everyone in our home that it would play out that way. North Carolina like so many mediocre or struggling programs is just soft and stupid enough to allow it to happen. I had full confidence in them.

Try that against Alabama and it's smothered for a 5 yard loss.
 
Also we need to start making the correct read at least 70 percent of the time on the zone read. He pulls when he should give and vice versa. He's not very good reading the zone read give/keep aspect of the play. I bet that would help a lot. Pull the ball when the DE crashed and give the ball when the DE just stands there.

Too many times he doesn't make the right read on this play and we run it 5-8 times a game. However on 3rd and 4 he made the right play and sealed the game
 
Didn't Homer just run for 170 a couple weeks ago and 4.8 yards per carry last week? One bad running game and now we're hollering for the I-formation?

Plenty reasons why that's a terrible idea.


#1 - Rosier can barely make the proper reads from the gun/spread but you want him to take 5/7 step drops while reading a defense.

#2 - We don't have a real Fullback

#3 - Our RB's are good zone runners, Homer especially. He runs zone like it's supposed to be run, puts his foot in the ground and gets north. Playing RB in the Pro is a different animal.

#4 - If we're having trouble running the ball against 6 man boxes, how in the **** do you think we'll be able to run against 8/9 man boxes? LOL

#5 - We have far too much potential at the WR position to line-up with less than 3 WR's every snap. We'd be doing ourselves a disservice. Who you wanna leave on the bench while we run the Pro? Berrios? Thomas? Langham?

#6 - Pro Style is easier to defend. Not debatable. Next.

#7 - Going Pro Style would get rid of Miami's main advantage over the rest of college football...SPEED.

#8 - It's easier to disguise your defense against a Pro-Style offense. Spreading the formation out makes it more difficult for DC's to play games pre-snap. It's much easier for Rosier to identify coverages and blitzes if he's in the spread.


And finally, every concept you can run from the Pro-Style can be ran from the spread/gun. Power, Iso, Counter, etc. We're just not creative enough. If you watch a legit spread offense you'll see them utilizing H-backs, running Iso, running Power, and all other concepts that formerly were only seen in Pro-Style sets.

Great post! The only thing that I may disagree about is that speed is our main advantage over the rest of college football. I don't think that we look much faster than most of the teams that we play. That may have been the case 20 or 30 years ago, but I am not sure that applies much anymore. Not saying that we are slow by any means but it just doesn't look like a decided advantage to me.

Our main recruiting ground is still South Florida, is it not?

Team speed will always be our advantage, unless you think that other high school athletes have caught up to South Florida's. I'd have to disagree with that big time.

We haven't been that fast lately due to Golden's a$$-backwards way of recruiting but with Richt as the HC we'll finally get back to recruiting legit speed. You can already see it with his first class.

If you look around the country you'll see how dynamic South FLA skill kids are. They're killing at programs all over the nation. Speed is still indeed an advantage for South Florida kids, we just didn't do a good job of signing them.
 
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How about Trayon at Full Back?

How about some split back sets?

I am sick of the RPO

amen brother. i hate the rpo's and read option. give me old school canes football!

Why the **** would yall hate something that is working all over the country and is being adopted by the best coaches in the world? LOL

Be a little less predictable. I’m not saying kill RPO’s but change it up to throw the Defense off. Not going to happen though.

There's nothing predictable about an offense that's predicated on the defense's movement. If spread concepts like read/option and RPO's were predictable then they wouldn't be so successful. If a single play has 2 or 3 options then how is it predictable?
 
The simple answer to the OP is probably that we just don't have the appropriate personnel to run that, from Rosier on down to the O-line. I think it would be a disaster. Not only would we not move the ball any better, we'd also end up limiting ourselves for the big-play opportunities we are currently getting, without which we'd probably be 4-3 or 3-4.

My guess is that you could look to our 2003 game against Tennessee in the Orange Bowl for what our offense would look like if we tried to run that style. We had similar personnel issues.....most glaringly, a shorter QB who struggled in Coker's pro-style sets. How comfortable do you feel with Malik under center? I don't feel very comfortable with that at all.

The game has changed. No one runs that style anymore. Not sure we could get the players to run that style even if we wanted to, since all the high schools are running shotgun spread.

The only time that offense has ever worked at Miami is when we were loaded with NFL draft picks.

Truth is, Miami has always been a school that was better suited for the spread. Our recruiting ground breeds spread players. If we breeded Pro-Style players down here then we wouldn't need to find QB's, TE's and OL in other states. (like we did during our last run)

I can't fathom why any school would run a scheme that requires them to get on a plane to find their players. LOL
Miami running the Pro-Style is like Wisconsin running the spread.
 
Didn't Homer just run for 170 a couple weeks ago and 4.8 yards per carry last week? One bad running game and now we're hollering for the I-formation?

Plenty reasons why that's a terrible idea.


#1 - Rosier can barely make the proper reads from the gun/spread but you want him to take 5/7 step drops while reading a defense.

#2 - We don't have a real Fullback

#3 - Our RB's are good zone runners, Homer especially. He runs zone like it's supposed to be run, puts his foot in the ground and gets north. Playing RB in the Pro is a different animal.

#4 - If we're having trouble running the ball against 6 man boxes, how in the **** do you think we'll be able to run against 8/9 man boxes? LOL

#5 - We have far too much potential at the WR position to line-up with less than 3 WR's every snap. We'd be doing ourselves a disservice. Who you wanna leave on the bench while we run the Pro? Berrios? Thomas? Langham?

#6 - Pro Style is easier to defend. Not debatable. Next.

#7 - Going Pro Style would get rid of Miami's main advantage over the rest of college football...SPEED.

#8 - It's easier to disguise your defense against a Pro-Style offense. Spreading the formation out makes it more difficult for DC's to play games pre-snap. It's much easier for Rosier to identify coverages and blitzes if he's in the spread.


And finally, every concept you can run from the Pro-Style can be ran from the spread/gun. Power, Iso, Counter, etc. We're just not creative enough. If you watch a legit spread offense you'll see them utilizing H-backs, running Iso, running Power, and all other concepts that formerly were only seen in Pro-Style sets.

Miami doesn't have a speed advantage at this point. That's a myth.
 
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How about Trayon at Full Back?

How about some split back sets?

I am sick of the RPO

amen brother. i hate the rpo's and read option. give me old school canes football!

Why the **** would yall hate something that is working all over the country and is being adopted by the best coaches in the world? LOL

Be a little less predictable. I’m not saying kill RPO’s but change it up to throw the Defense off. Not going to happen though.

There's nothing predictable about an offense that's predicated on the defense's movement. If spread concepts like read/option and RPO's were predictable then they wouldn't be so successful. If a single play has 2 or 3 options then how is it predictable?

I’m not buying it. Sure, that sounds good in theory but in reality every respectable D we face has a good idea what we are doing.

We just ran up the middle on 2nd down again.
 
Didn't Homer just run for 170 a couple weeks ago and 4.8 yards per carry last week? One bad running game and now we're hollering for the I-formation?

Plenty reasons why that's a terrible idea.


#1 - Rosier can barely make the proper reads from the gun/spread but you want him to take 5/7 step drops while reading a defense.

#2 - We don't have a real Fullback

#3 - Our RB's are good zone runners, Homer especially. He runs zone like it's supposed to be run, puts his foot in the ground and gets north. Playing RB in the Pro is a different animal.

#4 - If we're having trouble running the ball against 6 man boxes, how in the **** do you think we'll be able to run against 8/9 man boxes? LOL

#5 - We have far too much potential at the WR position to line-up with less than 3 WR's every snap. We'd be doing ourselves a disservice. Who you wanna leave on the bench while we run the Pro? Berrios? Thomas? Langham?

#6 - Pro Style is easier to defend. Not debatable. Next.

#7 - Going Pro Style would get rid of Miami's main advantage over the rest of college football...SPEED.

#8 - It's easier to disguise your defense against a Pro-Style offense. Spreading the formation out makes it more difficult for DC's to play games pre-snap. It's much easier for Rosier to identify coverages and blitzes if he's in the spread.


And finally, every concept you can run from the Pro-Style can be ran from the spread/gun. Power, Iso, Counter, etc. We're just not creative enough. If you watch a legit spread offense you'll see them utilizing H-backs, running Iso, running Power, and all other concepts that formerly were only seen in Pro-Style sets.

Miami doesn't have a speed advantage at this point. That's a myth.

If we recruited like we're supposed to the last few years...

We wouldn't have a speed advantage?
 
amen brother. i hate the rpo's and read option. give me old school canes football!

Why the **** would yall hate something that is working all over the country and is being adopted by the best coaches in the world? LOL

Be a little less predictable. I’m not saying kill RPO’s but change it up to throw the Defense off. Not going to happen though.

There's nothing predictable about an offense that's predicated on the defense's movement. If spread concepts like read/option and RPO's were predictable then they wouldn't be so successful. If a single play has 2 or 3 options then how is it predictable?

I’m not buying it. Sure, that sounds good in theory but in reality every respectable D we face has a good idea what we are doing.

We just ran up the middle on 2nd down again.

Well cause we're not good at it! LOL
 
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Put me in the camp of hating RPO’s. I get it that we are winning and we are using it bc it may be our best way to play given some issues but I am in the camp of the old canes pro style offense mindset.

Same here. Every game I've been irritated at the lack of I formation and all of the gorgeous permutations it allows, along with basic physical football and all the advantages that spring. We may be undefeated but our low rushing attempt numbers -- especially in the first half -- do not align with full legitimacy.

I have to laugh at the notion that top programs are using RPO, and therefore we should shut up and behold. Regardless of sport the most talented teams and individuals have enormous margin for error, and therefore can break the rules. Ali could drop his hands. Secretariat could allow the frontrunner a 10 length gap. Who cares? The 2017 Canes don't threaten to qualify. Once we have 16 first round draft choices on this roster then I'm willing to overlook coordinators who tinker and essentially amuse themselves. Right now we are life and death with mediocre programs. Those mediocre programs would be dispatched with greater ease if we actually hit somebody on offense for a change, and utilized wonderful variety off play action and actual darts over the middle to a tight end, instead of slow developing weaving runs in the backfield mixed with mindless lobs toward the deep sideline into double coverage.

The Bortles example is very good. He sucks. But the Jaguars are finding ways to reduce his vulnerabilities. Great use of sporadic I formation basics. Earlier in the year I provided a Titans link and how they use I formation and creative twists out of it, notably in the red zone.

In contrast, I never cease to laugh at spread and RPO programs that stubbornly stick to their formations and scheme, regardless of opponent, down or distance, or situation. It was hilarious to watch Mike Leach and Washington State try to pretend that 17 rushes were sufficient the other night at Arizona. I howled. Heck, in the North Carolina game on Saturday we were in jeopardy of a deficit that might have been too much to overcome, if the Tar Heels had merely altered their approach inside the 5 yard line. You even had the television commentators mocking them for remaining in the shotgun at the 1 or 2 yard line. I was laughing along with them. It reached the point I didn't care at all if a long North Carolina play busted inside the 5 yard line. As long as they had to line up again, given the style they were certain to employ they weren't guaranteed anything. Maybe a 30 yard field goal attempt after a couple of sideways rushes caved in, plus a sack.

Put a power team in the same spot and they are going to crash into the end zone with defiance.

The Canes themselves got stuck inside the 5 yard line against Georgia Tech and Syracuse. I have season tickets and sat there in disgust. No threat of a necessary blend. Alabama is one of the few teams in the country that sets aside the stubbornness and will switch from style to style based on field position and logic.

I've argued for years that Alabama can monopolize the national title in this era largely because the other programs have succumbed. If you had one brute physical and basic style after another among the most talented teams, then it's like the old days with shared titles among the blue bloods. I feared Ohio State all season in 2002 because that team was blue collar brutes all over the field, plus loads of talent. Instead, nowadays you have tinkerbell spread all over the place. Soft teams as a result. Defense is mostly lip service. Clemson needed two extreme talents in Deshaun Watson and Mike Williams to hang in there with Alabama. Good plan. Right now the most amusing game of every season is that Alabama season opener against a name brand team on a neutral site. That opponent says all the right things. They actually believe it. But during practice there is no way they can approximate the actual physicality and intensity that Alabama will bring. The game turns into a boxing match with each round more physically lopsided than the previous. I enjoy it.

I do have to say that the RPO allows occasional advantage. For example, on Saturday when North Carolina had 3 time outs and was desperate to regain the ball I was absolutely certain that Rosier would hand off twice on our final series, and then keep the ball for a first down on the third down play. Prior to the series I told everyone in our home that it would play out that way. North Carolina like so many mediocre or struggling programs is just soft and stupid enough to allow it to happen. I had full confidence in them.

Try that against Alabama and it's smothered for a 5 yard loss.

long post..Bama love fest..Clemson beat them f*ckers with a 5'9 180 wr running an out. lmao.
Corch Dabo routineluy put them points on the board vs Bama
 
Why the **** would yall hate something that is working all over the country and is being adopted by the best coaches in the world? LOL

Be a little less predictable. I’m not saying kill RPO’s but change it up to throw the Defense off. Not going to happen though.

There's nothing predictable about an offense that's predicated on the defense's movement. If spread concepts like read/option and RPO's were predictable then they wouldn't be so successful. If a single play has 2 or 3 options then how is it predictable?

I’m not buying it. Sure, that sounds good in theory but in reality every respectable D we face has a good idea what we are doing.

We just ran up the middle on 2nd down again.

Well cause we're not good at it! LOL

Don’t you think CMR can do some counters, motions, bootlegs, reverses, etc, to keep the D guessing? I just don’t understand it.
 
Be a little less predictable. I’m not saying kill RPO’s but change it up to throw the Defense off. Not going to happen though.

There's nothing predictable about an offense that's predicated on the defense's movement. If spread concepts like read/option and RPO's were predictable then they wouldn't be so successful. If a single play has 2 or 3 options then how is it predictable?

I’m not buying it. Sure, that sounds good in theory but in reality every respectable D we face has a good idea what we are doing.

We just ran up the middle on 2nd down again.

Well cause we're not good at it! LOL

Don’t you think CMR can do some counters, motions, bootlegs, reverses, etc, to keep the D guessing? I just don’t understand it.

**** yeah!
 
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Be a little less predictable. I’m not saying kill RPO’s but change it up to throw the Defense off. Not going to happen though.

There's nothing predictable about an offense that's predicated on the defense's movement. If spread concepts like read/option and RPO's were predictable then they wouldn't be so successful. If a single play has 2 or 3 options then how is it predictable?

I’m not buying it. Sure, that sounds good in theory but in reality every respectable D we face has a good idea what we are doing.

We just ran up the middle on 2nd down again.

Well cause we're not good at it! LOL

Don’t you think CMR can do some counters, motions, bootlegs, reverses, etc, to keep the D guessing? I just don’t understand it.

You can't really run counter if you can't get movement on the interior, We don't have road grading interior linemen (excited for Sciafe and Reed). Plus we have suspect feet when moving. Any leakage from the middle kills anything counter

We've tried to run some boot action, but again unless it's a naked bootleg you need to pull an OG to pass protect.

With our oline we need to stay away from anything that is long developing like reverses, counters, bootlegs. Especially with the talent were about to see at DT in the next couple of weeks`

IMO the motion thing is overblown, but that's just my opinion.
 
There's nothing predictable about an offense that's predicated on the defense's movement. If spread concepts like read/option and RPO's were predictable then they wouldn't be so successful. If a single play has 2 or 3 options then how is it predictable?

I’m not buying it. Sure, that sounds good in theory but in reality every respectable D we face has a good idea what we are doing.

We just ran up the middle on 2nd down again.

Well cause we're not good at it! LOL

Don’t you think CMR can do some counters, motions, bootlegs, reverses, etc, to keep the D guessing? I just don’t understand it.

You can't really run counter if you can't get movement on the interior, We don't have road grading interior linemen (excited for Sciafe and Reed). Plus we have suspect feet when moving. Any leakage from the middle kills anything counter

We've tried to run some boot action, but again unless it's a naked bootleg you need to pull an OG to pass protect.

With our oline we need to stay away from anything that is long developing like reverses, counters, bootlegs. Especially with the talent were about to see at DT in the next couple of weeks`

IMO the motion thing is overblown, but that's just my opinion.

Well we've been running a ton of buck-sweep the past few games...
So apparently Richt thinks our OL can move.
 
I would like to see the qb under center occasionally.

Our short yardage run game has been a mess all year. I think more traditional run game would be an improvement in short yardage.
 
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