Why NFL Coaches fail as College Coaches

[RedSquare]

There are NFL head coaches, and there are college head coaches. VERY few can move back and forth and be successful. For every Jimmy Johnson, there's 100 Steve Spurriers and Nick Sabans.

The reason has nothing to do with their knowledge of football.

It's the nature of the athlete and the expectations as the respective levels. In the NFL, a coach has almost unlimited demands on the player's time, (subject to any minimal CBA restrictions), and ZERO interest, control, or responsibility for what happens to a player once they leave the building. As long as it doesn't violate the law or the player's contract, the coach has nothing to do with it.

Contrast that with college. The head coach needs to create a disciplinary and operating structure that not only accounts for limited hours he and his staff can be with the player, but also one that accommodates both the non-football obligations of the player, and the coach's responsibility to ensure compliance. Not all coaches are cut out for managing their teams that way, or managing a bunch of 19 year olds who are amateur athletes, but professional knuckleheads. That's where NFL coaches fail. Not on the X's and O's, and it's why the idea that a successful NFL coach will also kill it in college, is a myth.

 

[brcane1]

Its all about fit and if you've been watching shooty hoops then you know the stereotype you described has been blown out of the water recently. Find a coach that relates well with players, can run an accountable organization, and knows the game, that guy will be successful regardless of their background.

 

[RedSquare]

Its all about fit and if you've been watching shooty hoops then you know the stereotype you described has been blown out of the water recently. Find a coach that relates well with players, can run an accountable organization, and knows the game, that guy will be successful regardless of their background.

I'm speaking specifically as to football. Not hoops. Different story.

On the issue of NFL vs. College, it's not a stereotype. It's reality.

 

[JayCane20]

NFL guys (like NFL "lifers") just don't understand the college game and the demands. Both are equally demanding - one is exclusively football 90% or so.. the other is football 40%, recruiting 40%, everything else 20%.

The NFL guys typically just don't understand the importance of recruiting. A guy like Ron Rivera isn't going to be successful in college because he's never had to recruit.

If Matt Rhule came back to college.. he would kill it like Nick Saban if he was at a place like A&M because he understands the importance. Kingsbury is more successful in the NFL than college because he can draft who he wants that fits his mold and he doesn't have to recruit.. he's all football.

X&O's is the name of the game in the NFL and there's no hiding why the premier teams are coached by Reid, Shanahan, Kliff, McVay, Arians, etc. and why Urban is 0-4 because he can't recruit. He actually has to coach and game plan.

 

[TruCane81]

Great points in this thread, but I see it differently.

An NFL coach is more qualified than most candidates from a football and organizational standpoint.

The failure happens when a guy is either unwilling to recruit or unable because he doesn’t have the personality to sell to recruits.

Personality and recruiting philosophy are the most important attributes of finding an NFL coach who can drop down and succeed.

 

[RightSaidFred]

Proof?

I think if you look at NFL coaches who have jumped to college, the success ratio is higher than coaches with zero NFL experience.

Just look at Nick Saban. Howard and Butch had NFL experience. Those guys work out a lot more often than the “up and coming” college types IMO

 

[jsy]

Great points in this thread, but I see it differently.

An NFL coach is more qualified than most candidates from a football and organizational standpoint.

The failure happens when a guy is either unwilling to recruit or unable because he doesn’t have the personality to sell to recruits.

Personality and recruiting philosophy are the most important attributes of finding an NFL coach who can drop down and succeed.

Recruiting comes down to assistants/position coaches
We need a true ceo type that’s going to establish the culture
That’s gonna fill his staff with championship level position coaches
When we were good we had top tier assistant/position coaches

 

[TemplarCane]

Two key differences

1) College players start 18 year olds, many away from home for the first time. Time spent on football activities limited. Players have all the distractions of youth. School.

2) NFL players are grown men. The game is a full time job. Livelyhood, potentially millions dollars. Rosters half the size with more games.

 

[Dwinstitles]

NFL guys (like NFL "lifers") just don't understand the college game and the demands. Both are equally demanding - one is exclusively football 90% or so.. the other is football 40%, recruiting 40%, everything else 20%.

The NFL guys typically just don't understand the importance of recruiting. A guy like Ron Rivera isn't going to be successful in college because he's never had to recruit.

If Matt Rhule came back to college.. he would kill it like Nick Saban if he was at a place like A&M because he understands the importance. Kingsbury is more successful in the NFL than college because he can draft who he wants that fits his mold and he doesn't have to recruit.. he's all football.

X&O's is the name of the game in the NFL and there's no hiding why the premier teams are coached by Reid, Shanahan, Kliff, McVay, Arians, etc. and why Urban is 0-4 because he can't recruit. He actually has to coach and game plan.

We dont need an X and O HC, our problem has been the horses the talent level is ****, we always been our best when we out talent not out scheme. We arent UCF

 

[bshaw28]

Two key differences

1) College players start 18 year olds, many away from home for the first time. Time spent on football activities limited. Players have all the distractions of youth. School.

2) NFL players are grown men. The game is a full time job. Livelyhood, potentially millions dollars. Rosters half the size with more games.

This is a main problem I see. It's like going from being a father figure role to more of a co-worker role.

That and college coaches too ****y a lot of the time. So many bring in guys who "know their system" who obviously aren't NFL talents and it rubs people wrong and gets them off on the wrong foot. Too much "I know what works" mentality and not enough "I need to learn" mentality

 

[Cribby]

We dont need an X and O HC, our problem has been the horses the talent level is ****, we always been our best when we out talent not out scheme. We arent UCF

I disagree on so many levels. We have more horses than Uva abd Msu, it’s actually not close . Y’all keep sleeping on culture , discipline and scheme. If it were only about the players we’d go 10-3/ 11-2 most years. We play in the Acc coarstal lol. Bama is ran like a pro franchise. From schematics , s&c , culture , etc. Its way more than the horses.

 

[Dwinstitles]

I disagree on so many levels. We have more horses than Uva abd Msu, it’s actually not close . Y’all keep sleeping on culture , discipline and scheme. If it were only about the players we’d go 10-3/ 11-2 most years. We play in the Acc coarstal lol. Bama is ran like a pro franchise. From schematics , s&c , culture , etc. Its way more than the horses.

I agree we do have more horses than UVA and MSU but when u don't have horses up front what does it matter? U can have nice talent at skill spots but when u have no OL or DL u basically nullifying that talent.

 

[Cribby]

I agree we do have more horses than UVA and MSU but when u don't have horses up front what does it matter? U can have nice talent at skill spots but when u have no OL or DL u basically nullifying that talent.

Go look at Burrow pre Joe Brady / scheme and after. That’s two different players , night and day difference.Now go look at Sam Darnold pre Brady / scheme and now after.

Do you need players ? Yes , but at no point in history has X’s and O’s mattered more. The days of Miami lining up and out talenting people are dead. No matter If you get every five star in the country. Bama even changed their approach on o and d. They also have former nfl coaches running the the team. Then mix in the former power five coaches they keep in off field positions lol. They have the best coaching , schematics , s&c and most importantly the best development.

As a fan base we have to get past this old thinking of ” give me the horses and i‘ll win”. It’s way more than that. It starts at the top of the program on down.

 

[Dwinstitles]

Go look at Burrow pre Joe Brady / scheme and after. That’s two different players , night and day difference.Now go look at Sam Darnold pre Brady / scheme and now after.

Do you need players ? Yes , but at no point in history has X’s and O’s mattered more. The days of Miami lining up and out talenting people are dead. No matter If you get every five star in the country. Bama even changed their approach on o and d. They also have former nfl coaches running the the team. Then mix in the former power five coaches they keep in off field positions lol. They have the best coaching , schematics , s&c and most importantly the best development.

As a fan base we have to get past this old thinking of ” give me the horses and i‘ll win”. It’s way more than that. It starts at the top of the program on down.

Brady is a gift he is rare around cfb. U trust this admin to find a genius that has NFL aspirations? I don't think they can do it. I'll give u that Brady is a monster but super rare. Who is that guy? I don't know who that guy is but we all knew Joe is the truth.

When we hire someone I will value you and LCE review of the hire. I like Freeze he does it all and checks every box for me

 

[PIPO]

There are NFL head coaches, and there are college head coaches. VERY few can move back and forth and be successful. For every Jimmy Johnson, there's 100 Steve Spurriers and Nick Sabans.

The reason has nothing to do with their knowledge of football.

It's the nature of the athlete and the expectations as the respective levels. In the NFL, a coach has almost unlimited demands on the player's time, (subject to any minimal CBA restrictions), and ZERO interest, control, or responsibility for what happens to a player once they leave the building. As long as it doesn't violate the law or the player's contract, the coach has nothing to do with it.

Contrast that with college. The head coach needs to create a disciplinary and operating structure that not only accounts for limited hours he and his staff can be with the player, but also one that accommodates both the non-football obligations of the player, and the coach's responsibility to ensure compliance. Not all coaches are cut out for managing their teams that way, or managing a bunch of 19 year olds who are amateur athletes, but professional knuckleheads. That's where NFL coaches fail. Not on the X's and O's, and it's why the idea that a successful NFL coach will also kill it in college, is a myth.

Why are you using Spurrier & Saban? They went from college to the NFL. Not the other way around. So your argument that an NFL HC fails as a college coach is not making much sense to me here.

“Why NFL coaches fail as college coaches,” is not accurate. Another former NFL coach who came back to college was Pete Carroll & obviously he’s now back in the NFL.

 

[nobeastofburden]

Go look at Burrow pre Joe Brady / scheme and after. That’s two different players , night and day difference.Now go look at Sam Darnold pre Brady / scheme and now after.

Do you need players ? Yes , but at no point in history has X’s and O’s mattered more. The days of Miami lining up and out talenting people are dead. No matter If you get every five star in the country. Bama even changed their approach on o and d. They also have former nfl coaches running the the team. Then mix in the former power five coaches they keep in off field positions lol. They have the best coaching , schematics , s&c and most importantly the best development.

As a fan base we have to get past this old thinking of ” give me the horses and i‘ll win”. It’s way more than that. It starts at the top of the program on down.

While I don't disagree with any of that, a lot of things could be said about the "person" being recruited. Some kids will work out some won't, that is the way it works. Finding those kids with talent, who understand the game, that are coachable, loves the game, etc, is pretty important if you want a dominate program. Scheme matters for sure, but if it was all about scheme, the usual suspects wouldn't be the only top teams every year. We would have had non P5 teams winning titles. I think that goes hand in hand with a number of important pieces, like you. S&C+scheme+mentality

 

[puertorricane]

Herm Edwards is having success at Arizona st with an NFL staff.

 

[RedSquare]

Why are you using Spurrier & Saban? They went from college to the NFL. Not the other way around. So your argument that an NFL HC fails as a college coach is not making much sense to me here.

“Why NFL coaches fail as college coaches,” is not accurate. Another former NFL coach who came back to college was Pete Carroll & obviously he’s now back in the NFL.

I used them as just a couple of examples of failing: "College to NFL"

You want examples of longtime NFL guys (top assistants and HC's) failing miserably, "NFL to College?" .... there's plenty of those:

Bill Callahan, Charlie Weis, Lovie Smith, Mike Sherman, Chan Gailey, Jim Caldwell, ..... I could keep going, because this list is long. it's even longer of you include guys that had some success in college went off to longer NFL careers, and tried to come back. The failure rate there is even greater.

 

[LuCane]

There are NFL head coaches, and there are college head coaches. VERY few can move back and forth and be successful. For every Jimmy Johnson, there's 100 Steve Spurriers and Nick Sabans.

The reason has nothing to do with their knowledge of football.

It's the nature of the athlete and the expectations as the respective levels. In the NFL, a coach has almost unlimited demands on the player's time, (subject to any minimal CBA restrictions), and ZERO interest, control, or responsibility for what happens to a player once they leave the building. As long as it doesn't violate the law or the player's contract, the coach has nothing to do with it.

Contrast that with college. The head coach needs to create a disciplinary and operating structure that not only accounts for limited hours he and his staff can be with the player, but also one that accommodates both the non-football obligations of the player, and the coach's responsibility to ensure compliance. Not all coaches are cut out for managing their teams that way, or managing a bunch of 19 year olds who are amateur athletes, but professional knuckleheads. That's where NFL coaches fail. Not on the X's and O's, and it's why the idea that a successful NFL coach will also kill it in college, is a myth.

Head coaches in the NFL and college need respect and trust, first and foremost, from their players. They just get it (or don't) for different reasons in each environment.

 

[Pentagon Cane]

Why are you using Spurrier & Saban? They went from college to the NFL. Not the other way around. So your argument that an NFL HC fails as a college coach is not making much sense to me here.

“Why NFL coaches fail as college coaches,” is not accurate. Another former NFL coach who came back to college was Pete Carroll & obviously he’s now back in the NFL.

Actually, Saban went from DC of the Cleveland Browns to head coach of Michigan State. Even Spurrier's first head coaching gig was with the Tampa Bay Bandits.