Why are the Canes so hated?

[MedleyCane]

Been following this for a long time, and I'm convinced it started out as a racial thing. We taunted, we strutted and we were ****y. The team had a higher percentage of black players than almost any other team in the '80's. (That's changed). Plus, we beat the sentimental favorite of most Americans, schools like Notre Dame, and we rubbed their noses in it.

I remember complaining to somebody in law school about all the nonsense that Gerry Faust used to show on the sideline at Moeller. That rah-rah midwestern image. This guy, from Chicago, said that's the way they like it there. Then Faust ended up at ND, and we beat his billowing boxer shorts off. Aroused sympathy for the Irish all around the country, even where it had not previously existed. Now, white America was under siege by the black uprising known as the Miami Hurricanes.

Trust me, I used to work in civil rights, race relations, and recognize this. I saw it at Georgetown when John Thompson was coach and the team was the unfavorite of the media because it was almost entirely inner city blacks from D.C., with a few from Baltimore or other cities thrown in. John Thompson constantly did things his own way.

This also was evident as far back as 1972 when an all-black Florida State team made it to the NCAA championship game against UCLA. Everybody assumed they were undisciplined because they were all black.

I'm white by the way, but I know when somebody is being picked on because they are different and don't act the way the powers that be want them to act. Miami's kids in the '80s were ****y, arrogant, taunting, got in fights, and white America hated it, especially the media. I mentioned in another thread that I once had a conversation with Michael Wilbon after he seemed to express some sympathy for UM. Now that was 20 years ago, and I don't remember all the details and his column, but I remember he expressed some issues with the way most of the press treated UM.

And by the way, with respect to the post just above: I constantly challenge the myth that we recruited the best players in the nation. On paper, we did not. We found the best potential players and developed them. So many myths about our recruiting history. Believe me, I know. And anybody who says we consistently had top notch recruiting classes, you're full of crap. Nobody on this board knows the '80's recruiting history better than I do, and perhaps the history of the '90's as well. I read every newsletter that was published, I spent many hours, I used to have sources who had sources in the football office, particularly the recruiting office. We didn't recruit the best players, we got the best we could, and developed them better. That was the difference. Our most recent recruiting classes have been ranked considerably higher than the overall five classes that JJ recruited. Some of his early classes were very disappointing to the staff, and, on paper, downright pathetic. Golden has outrecruited JJ, and maybe Erickson, but the development and usage (scheme?) have left a lot to be desired.

Excellent post.
We've met before and I also grew up in Miami but have lived in the DC area since the 1980s and you're Georgetown reference is spot
on.
Around here you have white folks who are Duke basketball fans, who have no ties to the school or the state of North Carolina,
just like you have black folks who follow Georgetown who have no ties to that university as well.
We know what most of that is all about.

The thing with the UM hatred is more than just hatred towards the football program.
Baseball team has been on the end of some racist stuff from fans of other teams in the past.
In a nutshell, college football and baseball is primarily a small-town and/or southern sport
these days. So alot of the national and regional pundits who cover that sport favor programs
from the midwest and southeast, and UM is simply regarded as red-headed stepchild.
But more than UM football, alot of folks from other parts of the country hate south Florida
as a whole, and Miami in partcular.
Too many hispanics, too many Cubans, too ghetto, too many New Yorkers (code for too many Jews)
and so on....not my words...just what I hear.
The Marlins (when they have been good) and Heat have received similar treatment from the media
as well because of the city they represent.

 

[MedleyCane]

And by the way, with respect to the post just above: I constantly challenge the myth that we recruited the best players in the nation. On paper, we did not. We found the best potential players and developed them. So many myths about our recruiting history. Believe me, I know. And anybody who says we consistently had top notch recruiting classes, you're full of crap. Nobody on this board knows the '80's recruiting history better than I do, and perhaps the history of the '90's as well. I read every newsletter that was published, I spent many hours, I used to have sources who had sources in the football office, particularly the recruiting office. We didn't recruit the best players, we got the best we could, and developed them better. That was the difference. Our most recent recruiting classes have been ranked considerably higher than the overall five classes that JJ recruited. Some of his early classes were very disappointing to the staff, and, on paper, downright pathetic. Golden has outrecruited JJ, and maybe Erickson, but the development and usage (scheme?) have left a lot to be desired.

Our classes from the early 1980s were not highly-ranked.
But that's because the few folks who did the rankings were from the midwest, southwest or west coast and they were heavily biased
with agendas not consistent with being honest.
But make no mistake, the kids UM recruited in those days starting from Lou Saban onwards were as good as any in the country.
Lester Williams, David Jefferson, Mark Cooper, Mark Rush, Speedy Neal, Larry Brodsky, Alonzo Highsmith, Melvin Bratton, Winston Moss,
Bennie Blades, Rod Carter are just a few off the top of my head that could have gone anywhere in the country, and they were
recruiting in that manner, accordingly.

Now, there were some who slipped through the national recruiting cracks who perhaps would not have these days due to the saturation
of coverage by the college coaches, internet coverage and so on....players like Eddie Brown, Fred Robinson, Tolbert Bain,
Reggie Sutton, etc.

 

[mirednmediocrity2]

Find some of ESPN's hatred toward Miami to be manufactured: One of them starts quacking about something like: "Forfeit the game" or "Give them the death penalty" and the whole bunch chimes in with the same mantra for weeks. ESPN seems to need a villain to sell their sorry chit, and in CFB, we're it. It is definitely racist and I don't see how any self-respecting African American can work for this ridiculous network. Guys like Mark May are 100% "Oreos". They are sellouts.

 

[nycane]

UM and USC have always been treated different. imo its two inner circles schools with inner city kids. the programs have swagger. traditionalist like the mid-west, down south, football with the tailgating and the marching bands. not kids with dreads and uncle luke and snoop hanging around. personally, i find um refreshing because all these other programs have been phonies and covered up their scandals for years.

 

[TerragonSix]

I'll tell you something that's interesting to me; I live in Okeechobee County, where the Brighton Seminole Reservation is located. My business occasionally involves Seminoles that come from the reservation. Occasionally, during this time of year, it's obvious that I would talk about college football with them.

You would be surprised at how many that are Miami Hurricane fans. Guys would roll in with Jeep Wranglers painted in orange and green, wearing orange and green Ray Ban sunglasses, talking to me about how they got box seats this year.

So the question comes, of course. I have to ask it, because it was my understanding that the Seminole tribes as a whole monetarily support FSU;


"Why don't you like Florida State?"

"Nah, it's not my kind of school." "Don't like 'em. Don't need 'em."

For every one Seminole that is a FSU fan, four or five are Miami Hurricane fans. And no Gator fans. LOL

Go figure!

 

[ncncanes]

If 70% about winning + 30% race issue
- if we had been a 500 team or even average 8 wins, we would not be hated

We were the Yankees of College football for about 15 years

 

[TheMatador]

I think it started when we showed up for the national championship game against Penn State wearing camouflage. We lost. But all they could talk about was how we came there expecting to win.
Not to mention the term they coined against us later with "criminals vs catholics"

**** them.

No. It was evident way before then. You might not remember. When Jimmy Johnson came in, he was confronted by media opinion about the taunting, as I recall. He said it was something that could not be fixed overnight.I don't know exactly what was behind that statement, but it was very much part of the culture of the team well before the Fiesta Bowl thing. The Fiesta Bowl was just the latest. The fatigues, the steak fry walkout, etc., they were just more bumps along the road. The attitute against Miami started way before then and when was it we whooped up on ND 58-7? Was that '86? It would have been before the Fiesta Bowl. And the steak fry walkout, by the way, was the reaction, understandable, to some implicit racism in some of the black face skits performed by Penn State players, as I recall.

 

[Dingaan1828]

I think it started when we showed up for the national championship game against Penn State wearing camouflage. We lost. But all they could talk about was how we came there expecting to win.
Not to mention the term they coined against us later with "criminals vs catholics"

**** them.

No. It was evident way before then. You might not remember. When Jimmy Johnson came in, he was confronted by media opinion about the taunting, as I recall. He said it was something that could not be fixed overnight.I don't know exactly what was behind that statement, but it was very much part of the culture of the team well before the Fiesta Bowl thing. The Fiesta Bowl was just the latest. The fatigues, the steak fry walkout, etc., they were just more bumps along the road. The attitute against Miami started way before then and when was it we whooped up on ND 58-7? Was that '86? It would have been before the Fiesta Bowl. And the steak fry walkout, by the way, was the reaction, understandable, to some implicit racism in some of the black face skits performed by Penn State players, as I recall.

The trash talking and taunting started in 83. UM players yapped at ND the entire game.

 

[TheMatador]

I'll tell you something that's interesting to me; I live in Okeechobee County, where the Brighton Seminole Reservation is located. My business occasionally involves Seminoles that come from the reservation. Occasionally, during this time of year, it's obvious that I would talk about college football with them.

You would be surprised at how many that are Miami Hurricane fans. Guys would roll in with Jeep Wranglers painted in orange and green, wearing orange and green Ray Ban sunglasses, talking to me about how they got box seats this year.

So the question comes, of course. I have to ask it, because it was my understanding that the Seminole tribes as a whole monetarily support FSU;


"Why don't you like Florida State?"

"Nah, it's not my kind of school." "Don't like 'em. Don't need 'em."

For every one Seminole that is a FSU fan, four or five are Miami Hurricane fans. And no Gator fans. LOL

Go figure!

That's interesting. Is it a geographic thing, or a cultural thing. Okeechobee is really part of southern Florida, if not south Florida. What if they were from some northern Florida tribes (I guess they still exist). I've never really grasped the history and demographics of tribes in Florida. When I was going up, I was always under the impression that all south Florida Indians were Seminoles, but I think many are Miccosukee, whom I guess, are different.

They used to take us young kids from elementary school on field trips, usually to some place they told us was the Everglades (probably some tourist outpost in western Dade County or something) and told us we were seeing the Seminole Indians. They always had these wood hutches, open to the elements, with a platform and wood or thatched roof cover, no walls, and told us that was where the Indians lived. (They probably left at closing to go back to their houses somewhere else.) They always brought out one of the men in some Indian garb, and told us it was Chief Osceola. It was probably whichever male was going to be the famous chief for that day's batch of tourists. We always read in our elementary school textbooks about the famous Chief Osceola, so we finally got to see him. The original, and real, Chief Osceola, had died, what? a century before? We didn't know.

I'm not even sure we were really seeing Seminoles, I think they took us to see some Miccosukee tourist trap.

Didn't Donna Shalalala cut a deal with one of the Indian casinos to hold presidential debates a while back?

While we're at it, can anyone name the two outstanding Indian defensive backs who started for UM back around '64-'65? I think both were JUCO transfers from Oklahoma.

A bit of trivia.

 

[Dingaan1828]

I'll tell you something that's interesting to me; I live in Okeechobee County, where the Brighton Seminole Reservation is located. My business occasionally involves Seminoles that come from the reservation. Occasionally, during this time of year, it's obvious that I would talk about college football with them.

You would be surprised at how many that are Miami Hurricane fans. Guys would roll in with Jeep Wranglers painted in orange and green, wearing orange and green Ray Ban sunglasses, talking to me about how they got box seats this year.

So the question comes, of course. I have to ask it, because it was my understanding that the Seminole tribes as a whole monetarily support FSU;


"Why don't you like Florida State?"

"Nah, it's not my kind of school." "Don't like 'em. Don't need 'em."

For every one Seminole that is a FSU fan, four or five are Miami Hurricane fans. And no Gator fans. LOL

Go figure!

That's interesting. Is it a geographic thing, or a cultural thing. Okeechobee is really part of southern Florida, if not south Florida. What if they were from some northern Florida tribes (I guess they still exist). I've never really grasped the history and demographics of tribes in Florida. When I was going up, I was always under the impression that all south Florida Indians were Seminoles, but I think many are Miccosukee, whom I guess, are different.

They used to take us young kids from elementary school on field trips, usually to some place they told us was the Everglades (probably some tourist outpost in western Dade County or something) and told us we were seeing the Seminole Indians. They always had these wood hutches, open to the elements, with a platform and wood or thatched roof cover, no walls, and told us that was where the Indians lived. (They probably left at closing to go back to their houses somewhere else.) They always brought out one of the men in some Indian garb, and told us it was Chief Osceola. It was probably whichever male was going to be the famous chief for that day's batch of tourists. We always read in our elementary school textbooks about the famous Chief Osceola, so we finally got to see him. The original, and real, Chief Osceola, had died, what? a century before? We didn't know.

I'm not even sure we were really seeing Seminoles, I think they took us to see some Miccosukee tourist trap.

Didn't Donna Shalalala cut a deal with one of the Indian casinos to hold presidential debates a while back?

While we're at it, can anyone name the two outstanding Indian defensive backs who started for UM back around '64-'65? I think both were JUCO transfers from Oklahoma.

A bit of trivia.

Jim Whanee and Andy Sixkiller

 

[TheMatador]

I think the Georgetown analogy is dead on. As for the recruiting, I think its changed a lot since Miami was dominating the 80's and the early 90's. In the 80's, and correct me if I am wrong, they did not have the rankings like they do today. So that class that Howard brought in with Bratton, and Highsmith etc probably would have been highly rated. So I think its a bit of misnomer to say we didnt have highly rated recruiting classes.

Oh, definitely. Bratton, Highsmith and I think Steve Streeter were three of the most coveted recruits in that year's class. I think Steve was Streeter's first name. He went to Colorado instead, I think, and his career went nowhere. That was Tommy's father. I'm thinking of the classes a few years later, when JJ had some real disappointments, like those linemen from Illinois, Frank Hartley and another kid or two, whom we wanted badly. Story goes that Hubbard Alexander thought we had them wrapped up but Bob Karmelowicz cheated and got them. (Bob later became our DL coach under Erickson). We lost Terry Metcalf to Texas, another kid we thought we had. We lost kids like Sterling Palmer to FSU, Rich McKenzie to PSU, Paul Moore to FSU, and other elite south Florida kids. That would be like losing Dalvin Cook, Rudolph and all those other guys from down here more recently. We had a lot of south Florida disappointments in the '80s. This is nothing new.

Often, the kids we lost turned out to be something less than we thought they would be.

 

[TheMatador]

I'll tell you something that's interesting to me; I live in Okeechobee County, where the Brighton Seminole Reservation is located. My business occasionally involves Seminoles that come from the reservation. Occasionally, during this time of year, it's obvious that I would talk about college football with them.

You would be surprised at how many that are Miami Hurricane fans. Guys would roll in with Jeep Wranglers painted in orange and green, wearing orange and green Ray Ban sunglasses, talking to me about how they got box seats this year.

So the question comes, of course. I have to ask it, because it was my understanding that the Seminole tribes as a whole monetarily support FSU;


"Why don't you like Florida State?"

"Nah, it's not my kind of school." "Don't like 'em. Don't need 'em."

For every one Seminole that is a FSU fan, four or five are Miami Hurricane fans. And no Gator fans. LOL

Go figure!

That's interesting. Is it a geographic thing, or a cultural thing. Okeechobee is really part of southern Florida, if not south Florida. What if they were from some northern Florida tribes (I guess they still exist). I've never really grasped the history and demographics of tribes in Florida. When I was going up, I was always under the impression that all south Florida Indians were Seminoles, but I think many are Miccosukee, whom I guess, are different.

They used to take us young kids from elementary school on field trips, usually to some place they told us was the Everglades (probably some tourist outpost in western Dade County or something) and told us we were seeing the Seminole Indians. They always had these wood hutches, open to the elements, with a platform and wood or thatched roof cover, no walls, and told us that was where the Indians lived. (They probably left at closing to go back to their houses somewhere else.) They always brought out one of the men in some Indian garb, and told us it was Chief Osceola. It was probably whichever male was going to be the famous chief for that day's batch of tourists. We always read in our elementary school textbooks about the famous Chief Osceola, so we finally got to see him. The original, and real, Chief Osceola, had died, what? a century before? We didn't know.

I'm not even sure we were really seeing Seminoles, I think they took us to see some Miccosukee tourist trap.

Didn't Donna Shalalala cut a deal with one of the Indian casinos to hold presidential debates a while back?

While we're at it, can anyone name the two outstanding Indian defensive backs who started for UM back around '64-'65? I think both were JUCO transfers from Oklahoma.

A bit of trivia.

Jim Whanee and Andy Sixkiller

I think it was Wahnee. Great answer. I googled Andy Sixkiller a few years ago, and I think he had a career with the fire department in Miami, but passed away.

I don't know if he was somehow related to Sonny Sixkiller the great QB from Washington or WSU in the early '70's. That Sixkiller came from California, Andy came from Oklahoma, but I wonder if they came from the same or related tribe or nation. There were a lot of migrations; the Seminole I think were forced to move from Florida to Indian Country in Oklahoma. I don't recall if that was part of the Trail of Tears. I don't know if there were Indians from Oklahoma who migrated to California, where I think Sonny Sixkiller grew up. Of course, there were a lot of dust bowl migrants to the central Valley of California in the '30's. (Grapes of Wrath). Maybe Native-Americans migrated too.

 

[TheMatador]

I think it started when we showed up for the national championship game against Penn State wearing camouflage. We lost. But all they could talk about was how we came there expecting to win.
Not to mention the term they coined against us later with "criminals vs catholics"

**** them.

No. It was evident way before then. You might not remember. When Jimmy Johnson came in, he was confronted by media opinion about the taunting, as I recall. He said it was something that could not be fixed overnight.I don't know exactly what was behind that statement, but it was very much part of the culture of the team well before the Fiesta Bowl thing. The Fiesta Bowl was just the latest. The fatigues, the steak fry walkout, etc., they were just more bumps along the road. The attitute against Miami started way before then and when was it we whooped up on ND 58-7? Was that '86? It would have been before the Fiesta Bowl. And the steak fry walkout, by the way, was the reaction, understandable, to some implicit racism in some of the black face skits performed by Penn State players, as I recall.

The trash talking and taunting started in 83. UM players yapped at ND the entire game.

Maybe they were just yapping back. ND and its fans were always so sanctimonious, holier-than-thou. I hated that about ND.

We were treated like disciples of the devil for treating God's team so badly.

I think things boiled over in that 58-7 game against ND, which I think might have been '86. It was Gerry Faust's last game. He was already fired. (Or maybe it was '87). When I went to the '88 game, there was hate on ND campus everywhere, dorms, T-shirts, etc. Made me sick.

 

[HarrietTubmanCane]

Just a question, does any of those Native American individuals or tribes voluntarily and proactively refer to themselves as "Indians"?

 

[TerragonSix]

Just a question, does any of those Native American individuals or tribes voluntarily and proactively refer to themselves as "Indians"?

Some do, and some get flustered about it. I think that really depends on the location or culture of the tribe.

The ones I deal with, for the most part refer to themselves proudly as Indians. Nice to know there's folk out there that don't get insanely wrapped up in words.

Okeechobee is a little rural town, and there are people who refer to themselves proudly as rednecks.

Words can have very different meanings for different people. But they are just words, nothing more.

 

[Klamalama]

Butch Hiring day is 18 away

[video=youtube;9WZZjXgJ4W8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WZZjXgJ4W8[/video]

 

[The Svengali]

It's a racial, socioeconomic thing.

The make-up of the team is largely black, brash, inner city males, and that dynamic makes many people uncomfortable.

It's why you always hear coded language when it comes to the Miami program/players (i.e., Thugs, Catholics vs Convicts, and most recently "robbery" as it relates to the miracle play, and CBS calling the win against Duke "grand larceny")

 

[tpres]

We are not hated at all. To be honest, some fans think we are the hated Canes of the 80's and 90's. Truth is we are not, and are really irrelevant on the eyes of most. We got some attention due to the miracle play at the end of the Duke game. None cares that we had 23 penalty's called against, and some weren't warranted. ESPN shows the last play of the game, and if u are uninformed on the game, that is all you see. A play that we benefited from, either rightly or wrongfully, that is u for debate. Then due to this publicity, some on here think we are HATED. I hope we are hated once again, but we would still be totally irrelevant to College Football if not for the last play of the Duke game.

 

[jackedaround]

Butch Hiring day is 18 away

[video=youtube;9WZZjXgJ4W8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WZZjXgJ4W8[/video]

i remember when these were 57 days from firing golden. how far we've come.

 

[Klamalama]

Butch Hiring day is 17 away
As of 11-10-2015

We've been waiting so long
We've been waiting for the sun to rise and shine
Shining still to give us the will

Can you hear me, the sound of my voice?
I am here to tell you I have made my choice
I've been listening to what's been going down
There's just too much talk and gossip going 'round

You may think that I'm a fool but I know the answer
Words become a tool, anyone can use them
Take the golden rule, as the best example
Eyes that have seen will know what I mean

The time has come to take the bull by the horns
We've been so downhearted, we've been so forlorn
We get weak and we want to give in
But we still need each other if we want to win

Hold that line, baby, hold that line
Get up boys and hit 'em one more time
We may be losing now but we can't stop trying
So hold that line, baby, hold that line

If you don't know what to do about a world of trouble
You can pull it through if you need to
And if you believe it's true, it will surely happen
Shining still to give us the will

Bright as the day, to show us the way
Somehow, someday

We need just one victory and we're on our way
Prayin' for it all day and fightin' for it all night
Give us just one victory, it will be alright
We may feel about to fall but we go down fighting

You will hear the call if you only listen
Underneath it all we are here together shining still

[video=youtube;zVatBy_4GpM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVatBy_4GpM[/video]