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Who should be the other starting DE

Who should start this year

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252cane said:
Messidor isn’t a DT you saw that last year. He played much better at DE and now he is even smaller than last year. Same for Bain they are both about 270 right now. That’s too small for DT
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Very good point. Don’t have one tweeter, but two.
 
Calinative said:
You think Bain will struggle if he moves inside on passing downs even though as a freshman he actually won more often inside?

I’ll just put it like this: I’m literally not worried about Bain whatsoever regardless what we ask him to do. He is our best player on defense and will play like it
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Mesidor is the one who really struggled inside. As for Bain, he'd be better, but I think he'd be much more effective outside even on passing downs.

252cane said:
Messidor isn’t a DT you saw that last year. He played much better at DE and now he is even smaller than last year. Same for Bain they are both about 270 right now. That’s too small for DT
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I believe BOTH guys are under 270, especially Bain. They've both worked on slimming down. As for their weight, they're probably exactly where Sawyer and Tuimolau weighed at (260-265).
 
It’ll most likely be mesidor early downs then get him off the field for passing downs. Or move him inside
 
AUcane said:
Mesidor is the one who really struggled inside. As for Bain, he'd be better, but I think he'd be much more effective outside even on passing downs.



I believe BOTH guys are under 270, especially Bain. They've both worked on slimming down. As for their weight, they're probably exactly where Sawyer and Tuimolau weighed at (260-265).
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I think ultimately Bain will just play any role we need to get the best 4 pass rusher on the field as much as possible in pass rushing situations. Id assume that's often going to be Bain at Edge but will be heavily Bain inside with the speed guys outside. Like if Blount, Lightfoot, and Lowe are ready to contribute asap, those two outside with Bain moving in is good with me if it happens a lot.
I mean I also disagree about Mesidor playing inside I think he struggled holding up against the run there and because 1/3rd of all plays were stunts. If we are attacking and getting upfield I feel confident having Mesidor inside on rush situations. A lot of this just depends what kind of rush we get out of the interior guys though. The less we are confident in them pushing the pocket the more Mesidor and Bain need to fill that role, regardless what would be ideal or not ideal.
 
JayCane20 said:
Still a different scheme that asks different things from their DE. Ohio State was more talented on the interior DL, LB, and S than we are in 2025. That’s also part of it

I’m not even saying it’s bad on an every down basis. We will be fine 95% of the time. But we’re going to allow ourselves to be more susceptible to being burned to the perimeter. And it only takes 1 play per game. The current personnel will get schemed up and opponents will put us where they want us and use it when they need it.

Pickett/Lightfoot need to play more to offset it.

I will cut some film to show what I’m talking about. It goes back to playing field and boundary (nickel always to the field and Jack to the boundary) vs playing matchup where the nickel/star lines up to the strength and jack lines up opposite. Hetherman is more simplistic with the automatic alignment to the strength. Teams set the formation strength to the boundary and attack the field with tossed, sweeps, options, etc. and leave the DE unblocked on an island and force them to play it to the sideline. Slow guys get beat every time.
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I agree, but ultimately it'll be Herhermans job to get the LBs and S to make Tackles if that's the case and it'll be up to Bain to stop it. Again I'm just saying if an offenses strategy is to beat Bain, I'm happy with it. I will take that strategy against just like dominating our DTs or significantly targeting our LBs lol.
 
Calinative said:
I think ultimately Bain will just play any role we need to get the best 4 pass rusher on the field as much as possible in pass rushing situations. Id assume that's often going to be Bain at Edge but will be heavily Bain inside with the speed guys outside. Like if Blount, Lightfoot, and Lowe are ready to contribute asap, those two outside with Bain moving in is good with me if it happens a lot.
I mean I also disagree about Mesidor playing inside I think he struggled holding up against the run there and because 1/3rd of all plays were stunts. If we are attacking and getting upfield I feel confident having Mesidor inside on rush situations. A lot of this just depends what kind of rush we get out of the interior guys though. The less we are confident in them pushing the pocket the more Mesidor and Bain need to fill that role, regardless what would be ideal or not ideal.
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Sure, that's fair. But, of the guys you mentioned, Blount is gonna be that guy. As much as Lightfoot and Lowe have impressed, they are young and not quite there from an S&C perspective (especially Lightfoot). The future is bright with those two, though.

I think our rotation at DE will be Bain, Mesidor, Blount and Bryant. After that, probably CMac and Lightfoot with Pickett coming in on certain packages. Not sure how Lowe fits into that at this point.
 
JayCane20 said:
I’m not arguing. I voiced my opinion and don’t really care who starts. This isn’t the 2000s. Offenses are different.

I’ll just watch it happen. Notice, I didn’t mention Lowe. You did.

Bain and Mesidor should play the same position and be the 2 deep on one position on the line and maybe 1 of them or even both line up inside on occasion. I’ve lumped Blount in here too but I’ve not seen enough from him to make a call if he can do what I think the opposite DE needs to do. Maybe he can. Mesidor can’t. Good player with weaknesses that will get exposed playing that position (where most teams use a jack/pass rusher specialist type). That’s all I’m saying.

Hoping the weight loss and body fat % cut for Mesidor and another year off the foot injury makes a bigger difference than I assume it will make.
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Got it, understood. No argument we are both just voicing our opinion. Earlier in the thread you said you hoped it was Lightfoot starting opposite of Bain which implied to me that you either think Bain and Lowe will play the same position or that Lightfoot or one of the smaller type ends are the ones with the athleticism we're looking for.

Also when I said we were good with bigger run stuffing defensive ends you said offenses have changed in the last 20 years but I can site you multiple 4 man fronts that play with 2 defensive versus a jack/outside backer. Ohio State and Michigan for example.

I mostly agree with you that after the injuries Mesidor may not be the athlete that Lowe and even probably Blount are.
 
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SotaCanespiracy said:
Got it, understood. No argument we are both just voicing our opinion. Earlier in the thread you said you hoped it was Lightfoot starting opposite of Bain which implied to me that you either think Bain and Lowe will play the same position or that Lightfoot or one of the smaller type ends are the ones with the athleticism we're looking for.

Also when I said we were good with bigger run stuffing defensive ends you said offenses have changed in the last 20 years but I can site you multiple 4 man fronts that play with 2 defensive versus a jack/outside backer. Ohio State and Michigan for example.

I mostly agree with you that after the injuries Mesidor may not be the athlete that Lowe and even probably Blount are.
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Haven’t seen Lowe personally so I’m holding off on factoring him into anything as a true freshman but have high hopes. I have seen Lightfoot and took into consideration what I heard about the steps he’s taken since the season

Hope it’s Lightfoot because of the talent level and he’s the best athlete in our DL room. Also, if he’s starting, it means he’s taken a massive leap and is a baller. That would be best case scenario. His skill set is the best fit in this defense to start opposite of Bain, if he’s ready. Lowe would fit that category as well but like I said I have to see it first.
 
rok said:
If they are each a chiesled 270lbs then fine. However, if you allow Bain and Mesidor to play the majority of snaps at DE then what good was it to sign Lowe, Lightfoot, Blount, Pickett, McConathy, Bryant, etc?

We may have a deficiency at DT as things currently stand so at the very least I'm thinking Bain and Mesi should probably slide inside on passing downs.
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Passing downs is fine but not every down DTs
 
AUcane said:
Mesidor is the one who really struggled inside. As for Bain, he'd be better, but I think he'd be much more effective outside even on passing downs.



I believe BOTH guys are under 270, especially Bain. They've both worked on slimming down. As for their weight, they're probably exactly where Sawyer and Tuimolau weighed at (260-265).
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Might be now. I know they both was around 270 during spring practice
 
JayCane20 said:
Haven’t seen Lowe personally so I’m holding off on factoring him into anything as a true freshman but have high hopes. I have seen Lightfoot and took into consideration what I heard about the steps he’s taken since the season

Hope it’s Lightfoot because of the talent level and he’s the best athlete in our DL room. Also, if he’s starting, it means he’s taken a massive leap and is a baller. That would be best case scenario. His skill set is the best fit in this defense to start opposite of Bain, if he’s ready. Lowe would fit that category as well but like I said I have to see it first.
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What is Lightfoot weighing these days? I can’t see him being an every down guy because he legit looked like he was 205 last year on kickoff. Obviously he has put on weight since then but how much? I don’t think he will ever be a 250+ pound guy.
 
JayCane20 said:
Allegedly 235-240
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Well, that helps. 240 can definitely hold up but I’m with you. He is who I have my eyes on and someone we need to take a significant step. He should be no lower than DE4 and should be a key contributor on 3rd downs with Bain/Mesidor sliding inside IMO. If Bryant is getting snaps over him, it’s a problem. That’s nothing against Bryant, but this kid has 3x the physical talent as Malik. It’s Y2 and he is making a lot of money, time to show us something.
 
After last year abomination of a defense. Nobody really should be penciled in as a starter. Everybody should have to earn their spot.
 
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htownkidd said:
Well, that helps. 240 can definitely hold up but I’m with you. He is who I have my eyes on and someone we need to take a significant step. He should be no lower than DE4 and should be a key contributor on 3rd downs with Bain/Mesidor sliding inside IMO. If Bryant is getting snaps over him, it’s a problem. That’s nothing against Bryant, but this kid has 3x the physical talent as Malik. It’s Y2 and he is making a lot of money, time to show us something.
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I think ideal size for him is 245. 250 imo would be his absolute max. so if he’s 240 right now I think he’s ready to be heavy contributor now. 230 would probably still too light if that’s the case, but we still have another 2 months to gain like 5lbs of mass? I think he will step up
 
JayCane20 said:
Haven’t seen Lowe personally so I’m holding off on factoring him into anything as a true freshman but have high hopes. I have seen Lightfoot and took into consideration what I heard about the steps he’s taken since the season

Hope it’s Lightfoot because of the talent level and he’s the best athlete in our DL room. Also, if he’s starting, it means he’s taken a massive leap and is a baller. That would be best case scenario. His skill set is the best fit in this defense to start opposite of Bain, if he’s ready. Lowe would fit that category as well but like I said I have to see it first.
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If Lightfoot earns the starting job opposite Bain, that’d certainly be ideal and a very good sign to how our DLine will perform. But the nice thing is you can Sub Blount or Lowe into that as well. If any of those 3 step up we are looking great. And even if Mesidor is still a starter he is a good quality ACC starter, regardless.
 
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