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Who should be the other starting DE

Who should start this year

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JayCane20 said:
Sawyer and Tuimoloau ran 4.6 40s at their pro day - in the 90th-91st percentile for DEs.

We’re talking 4.7 at the very best and 4.8-4.9
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They ran 4.6 at pro day which means at the combine it would’ve been in the mid 4.7s. Hand times will always be faster. Look at the reports on both of them for the draft. Was talking how they lacked explosion and closing speed. How they are built for power and not speed and how they lack quickness. He made it work at Minnesota and I think he will be fine here
 
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JayCane20 said:
I’m not arguing. I voiced my opinion and don’t really care who starts. This isn’t the 2000s. Offenses are different.

I’ll just watch it happen. Notice, I didn’t mention Lowe. You did.

Bain and Mesidor should play the same position and be the 2 deep on one position on the line and maybe 1 of them or even both line up inside on occasion. I’ve lumped Blount in here too but I’ve not seen enough from him to make a call if he can do what I think the opposite DE needs to do. Maybe he can. Mesidor can’t. Good player with weaknesses that will get exposed playing that position (where most teams use a jack/pass rusher specialist type). That’s all I’m saying.

Hoping the weight loss and body fat % cut for Mesidor and another year off the foot injury makes a bigger difference than I assume it will make.
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There is different ways to use a DE. He doesn’t have to be used as a hybrid and can still be effective
 
252cane said:
They ran 4.6 at pro day which means at the combine it would’ve been in the 4.7s. Hand times will always be faster. Look at the reports on both of them for the draft. Was talking how they lacked explosion and closing speed. How they are built for power and not speed and how they lack quickness
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Still a different scheme that asks different things from their DE. Ohio State was more talented on the interior DL, LB, and S than we are in 2025. That’s also part of it

I’m not even saying it’s bad on an every down basis. We will be fine 95% of the time. But we’re going to allow ourselves to be more susceptible to being burned to the perimeter. And it only takes 1 play per game. The current personnel will get schemed up and opponents will put us where they want us and use it when they need it.

Pickett/Lightfoot need to play more to offset it.

I will cut some film to show what I’m talking about. It goes back to playing field and boundary (nickel always to the field and Jack to the boundary) vs playing matchup where the nickel/star lines up to the strength and jack lines up opposite. Hetherman is more simplistic with the automatic alignment to the strength. Teams set the formation strength to the boundary and attack the field with tossed, sweeps, options, etc. and leave the DE unblocked on an island and force them to play it to the sideline. Slow guys get beat every time.
 
Canes_N_Cats said:
I was actually surprised by this, especially Sawyer, and looked deeper into it. I dont think either of them ran 40's for the Combine or Pro Day.

The google search is messed up and picking up some sites projected number I think
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Correct. Neither ran the 40 at pro day or combines. One thing I will say is that I'd put Bain's 20 yard shuttle up against any of those guys. Bain has a quick burst. Mesidor is an unknown b/c of the foot injury but if healthy, he has that short area burst as well.
 
Bain and Mesidor are not twitchy enough to be every-down DEs imo. Hetherman must decide whether or not he wants to have the best pass rush in the ACC, or whether he wants to placate Bain and Mesidor by allowing them to play DE.

DE: Blount, Bryant, Lowe, McConathy, Lightfoot, Pickett, Scroggins

DT: Bain, Mesidor, Scott, Blay, Moten, Simpson, Russell, Jones, Newton
 
JayCane20 said:
That’s fine. Just telling you, teams are going to scheme them to the field and they’ll get smoked with open grass.
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We were so easy to scheme against last year, it was the most embarrassing thing I’ve watched in all my years of watching college football.

The number 1 problem, Guidry, is gone. I’m sure teams will try to scheme our DE’s to the open field. I’m sure they will be successful at times. Not going to win every battle. Hoping Heatherman has the D-line, linebackers and safety’s playing at least somewhat competent to where the defense doesn’t look like a clown show out there.

I do think Messidor should start on the opposite side of Bain. He’s seasoned and can be good at times. He’s just not a true force, even if he has the right coaching. He’s not as bad as some make him out to be, but he’s not as good as some will claim. Should be the starter as of now unless someone else steps up. Either way, I would like to see our young DE’s getting a lot of snaps.
 
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rok said:
Bain and Mesidor are not twitchy enough to be every-down DEs imo. Hetherman must decide whether or not he wants to have the best pass rush in the ACC, or whether he wants to placate Bain and Mesidor by allowing them to play DE.

DE: Blount, Bryant, Lowe, McConathy, Lightfoot, Pickett, Scroggins

DT: Bain, Mesidor, Scott, Blay, Moten, Simpson, Russell, Jones, Newton
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Messidor isn’t a DT you saw that last year. He played much better at DE and now he is even smaller than last year. Same for Bain they are both about 270 right now. That’s too small for DT
 
JayCane20 said:
Still a different scheme that asks different things from their DE. Ohio State was more talented on the interior DL, LB, and S than we are in 2025. That’s also part of it

I’m not even saying it’s bad on an every down basis. We will be fine 95% of the time. But we’re going to allow ourselves to be more susceptible to being burned to the perimeter. And it only takes 1 play per game. The current personnel will get schemed up and opponents will put us where they want us and use it when they need it.

Pickett/Lightfoot need to play more to offset it.

I will cut some film to show what I’m talking about. It goes back to playing field and boundary (nickel always to the field and Jack to the boundary) vs playing matchup where the nickel/star lines up to the strength and jack lines up opposite. Hetherman is more simplistic with the automatic alignment to the strength. Teams set the formation strength to the boundary and attack the field with tossed, sweeps, options, etc. and leave the DE unblocked on an island and force them to play it to the sideline. Slow guys get beat every time.
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That’s where the LBs and S come into play. Also you are guessing what teams are going to do. We played one team last year with a perimeter run game and that was GT. You also don’t know how hetherman would address if it was to become an issue. You are stressing about something you think could happen. Let’s see how things play out and how the new DC responds
 
252cane said:
That’s where the LBs and S come into play. Also you are guessing what teams are going to do. We played one team last year with a perimeter run game and that was GT. You also don’t know how hetherman would address if it was to become an issue. You are stressing about something you think could happen. Let’s see how things play out and how the new DC responds
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I’m not stressing lol I just gave my opinion on the starting lineup and our personnel.

Louisville, SMU, GT, ND, UF, VT, and FSU will all have perimeter run games.

There’s not a single thing we can do about it now from a personnel perspective.
 
JayCane20 said:
That’s fine. Just telling you, teams are going to scheme them to the field and they’ll get smoked with open grass.
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That's fine but whether it's that struggle or a different struggle, we'll have it with whoever we have in there. Have Lightfoot in there? Teams are gonna run it down our throats. The only DE that is ready to be a non-passing down threat is Blount. This is where our DC is gonna have to earn his keep - scheme around it.

We have plenty of fast twitch DEs but imo, they are a year away from making an impact. As for Bain and Mesidor at DT on passing downs, I'm not a huge fan - Mesidor was useless doing it last year and with his added weight loss, I don't expect anything different. I think Bain would struggle inside as well even on passing downs. I'll take my chances with him on the edge and perhaps one of the young guys on the other side on passing downs.
 
252cane said:
Messidor isn’t a DT you saw that last year. He played much better at DE and now he is even smaller than last year. Same for Bain they are both about 270 right now. That’s too small for DT
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If they are each a chiesled 270lbs then fine. However, if you allow Bain and Mesidor to play the majority of snaps at DE then what good was it to sign Lowe, Lightfoot, Blount, Pickett, McConathy, Bryant, etc?

We may have a deficiency at DT as things currently stand so at the very least I'm thinking Bain and Mesi should probably slide inside on passing downs.
 
AUcane said:
That's fine but whether it's that struggle or a different struggle, we'll have it with whoever we have in there. Have Lightfoot in there? Teams are gonna run it down our throats. The only DE that is ready to be a non-passing down threat is Blount. This is where our DC is gonna have to earn his keep - scheme around it.

We have plenty of fast twitch DEs but imo, they are a year away from making an impact. As for Bain and Mesidor at DT on passing downs, I'm not a huge fan - Mesidor was useless doing it last year and with his added weight loss, I don't expect anything different. I think Bain would struggle inside as well even on passing downs. I'll take my chances with him on the edge and perhaps one of the young guys on the other side on passing downs.
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You think Bain will struggle if he moves inside on passing downs even though as a freshman he actually won more often inside?

I’ll just put it like this: I’m literally not worried about Bain whatsoever regardless what we ask him to do. He is our best player on defense and will play like it
 
Ain’t this dude like a sixth year senior? how much better can he really get at this point and I don’t see what makes him such a entrenched starter , make him earn it like everybody else.
 
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