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Who Invented the Spread Offense?

DTP said:
Alabama tried that. They got blown out by Clemson’s spread and changed their entire philosophy the next year.

Besides “spread defenses” only exist to try to counter spread offenses because traditional defenses got demolished.
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Someone will figure it out. I suspect, given the current rule sets, its the only way.
 
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DTP said:
Alabama tried that. They got blown out by Clemson’s spread and changed their entire philosophy the next year.

Besides “spread defenses” only exist to try to counter spread offenses because traditional defenses got demolished.
Click to expand...


Wait, you mean "spread defenses" is just a term that someone made up to try to look knowledgeable about football?

Thank you for pointing that out, because I was almost convinced that "big hogs" and "beef" was the answer...
 
DTP said:
Alabama tried that. They got blown out by Clemson’s spread and changed their entire philosophy the next year.

Besides “spread defenses” only exist to try to counter spread offenses because traditional defenses got demolished.
Click to expand...
I didnt read your second paragraph.. my bad..

that is exactly my point though... spread defenses (designed to stop spread offenses for simplicity), consistently throughout a season, I dont believe can stop a big OL/RB stable/decent QB1/decent WRs....

That O can still take advantage of all rule sets AND is built to keep the ball away from the high-octane spread O on the other sideline.

this is really 101 stuff. adversaries field a capability, you look at your doctrine and platforms and adapt or bring on new ones. The game now has created an environment for Ds that is essentially impossible to stop Os. Gone is the day of the "irresistable force vs unmoveable object".

So, IF my observation is accurate, and a capability cant be fielded, what to do?

The best way to control a thing, is the ability to destroy a thing. How do you "destroy" a spread O? Keep them on the sidelines because your O can impose their will, play by play, tick by tick on the clock.

Unless they restore balance to the rule sets, there is really no other way.
 
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TemplarCane said:
Mississippi Valley State wasn’t a D1 college. There were several lower division programs running variations of the spread.
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Aaaaand? Big schools steal from small schools all the time. Remember when WVU hung 70 on Clemson in the OB?...that lil' shovel pass that Tavon Austin put up video game numbers on came from Bob Stitt, HC of the Colorado School Of The Mines. But to answer the OP's question, Glenn "Tiger" Ellison invented the spread, He was a HS coach in Ohio...don't know if His name is in the video or not.
 
CaneSince4Ever said:
Aaaaand? Big schools steal from small schools all the time. Remember when WVU hung 70 on Clemson in the OB?...that lil' shovel pass that Tavon Austin put up video game numbers on came from Bob Stitt, HC of the Colorado School Of The Mines. But to answer the OP's question, Glenn "Tiger" Ellison invented the spread, He was a HS coach in Ohio...don't know if His name is in the video or not.
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Its complicated. That coach from SDSU or was it San Jose St in 60s/70s? You cod even argue TCU in 50s with a coach named Meyer/Mayer... i dont remember... its just kinda evolved...

Coryell, Walsh, et al
 
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Empirical Cane said:
Its complicated. That coach from SDSU or was it San Jose St in 60s/70s? You cod even argue TCU in 50s with a coach named Meyer/Mayer... i dont remember... its just kinda evolved...

Coryell, Walsh, et al
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Although Meyer's offenses threw the ball around lot for those days, His offense wasn't really a spread.

Ellison's offense was truly a spread not only because He threw the ball around a lot, but because He spread you out from sideline to sideline.

The SDSU/SJU coach I don't know about.

BTW, Meyer's offense is basically the FG/XPA formation we see nowadays.
 
In regards to defenses figuring out the spread, they already have. The stuff that made Oregon unstoppable under Chip Kelly is already passe’. Gus Malzahn’s offense looked unstoppable until it was. The top offensive guys are forever altering and changing their systems. Adding different pieces from different coaches. Tweaking what isn’t working and altering their game plans. The game only moves forward and is a never ending cat and mouse game where the defense finally thinks it has caught up only to find some new wrinkle they haven’t accounted for. The game has only moved in one direction from it’s very inception. It never goes backwards. Unless there are significant rule changes to purposely slow the game down and give some advantage back to the defenses it will continue on the trajectory it’s been on since the 19th century.
 
DTP said:
In regards to defenses figuring out the spread, they already have. The stuff that made Oregon unstoppable under Chip Kelly is already passe’. Gus Malzahn’s offense looked unstoppable until it was. The top offensive guys are forever altering and changing their systems. Adding different pieces from different coaches. Tweaking what isn’t working and altering their game plans. The game only moves forward and is a never ending cat and mouse game where the defense finally thinks it has caught up only to find some new wrinkle they haven’t accounted for. The game has only moved in one direction from it’s very inception. It never goes backwards. Unless there are significant rule changes to purposely slow the game down and give some advantage back to the defenses it will continue on the trajectory it’s been on since the 19th century.
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The dbs dropping like flies before the snap is unethical but effective...
 
Empirical Cane said:
I didnt read your second paragraph.. my bad..

that is exactly my point though... spread defenses (designed to stop spread offenses for simplicity), consistently throughout a season, I dont believe can stop a big OL/RB stable/decent QB1/decent WRs....

That O can still take advantage of all rule sets AND is built to keep the ball away from the high-octane spread O on the other sideline.

this is really 101 stuff. adversaries field a capability, you look at your doctrine and platforms and adapt or bring on new ones. The game now has created an environment for Ds that is essentially impossible to stop Os. Gone is the day of the "irresistable force vs unmoveable object".

So, IF my observation is accurate, and a capability cant be fielded, what to do?

The best way to control a thing, is the ability to destroy a thing. How do you "destroy" a spread O? Keep them on the sidelines because your O can impose their will, play by play, tick by tick on the clock.

Unless they restore balance to the rule sets, there is really no other way.
Click to expand...
Yes, the idea that ball control and time of possession can render even the most explosive offense moot. It’s literally the basis behind every triple option team because shortening the game gives the more talented team less of an advantage. You could probably win a title if you had Alabama’s talent but therein lies the problem. Tell the top high school athletes “come play in our offense that purposely slows the game to a crawl, rarely passes and does nothing to make you appealing to NFL scouts”. Even if you choose to run a more “traditional” offense but just at a snail’s pace you’re still putting a purposeful cap on the number of carries, catches, pass attempts, etc that all skill players want more of. The other downfall a purposely slow offense is that if your defense should happen to start slowly and give up touchdowns on your opponents’ first two possessions, you’re essentially out of the game. Or at least at a terrible disadvantage when you’ve designed your whole game plan around not scoring fast.
 
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DTP said:
Yes, the idea that ball control and time of possession can render even the most explosive offense moot. It’s literally the basis behind every triple option team because shortening the game gives the more talented team less of an advantage. You could probably win a title if you had Alabama’s talent but therein lies the problem. Tell the top high school athletes “come play in our offense that purposely slows the game to a crawl, rarely passes and does nothing to make you appealing to NFL scouts”. Even if you choose to run a more “traditional” offense but just at a snail’s pace you’re still putting a purposeful cap on the number of carries, catches, pass attempts, etc that all skill players want more of. The other downfall a purposely slow offense is that if your defense should happen to start slowly and give up touchdowns on your opponents’ first two possessions, you’re essentially out of the game. Or at least at a terrible disadvantage when you’ve designed your whole game plan around not scoring fast.
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Something tells me there is a way and it can be appealing...
 
The shift to faster paced, spread offenses doesn’t mean that the power run game isn’t important. College teams still run the ball more than they pass it on average and you can still bludgeon your opponent to death with a battering ram running attack out of spread sets. I mean it’s not like North Carolina was lining up in the i and running belly over and over against us last year.
 
Empirical Cane said:
Its complicated. That coach from SDSU or was it San Jose St in 60s/70s? You cod even argue TCU in 50s with a coach named Meyer/Mayer... i dont remember... its just kinda evolved...

Coryell, Walsh, et al
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Dutch Meyer is the grandfather of the spread. Ran it the 40s. Added belly option in 50s which Gus is credited to introducing to the game.
 
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1LuvCane said:
The dbs dropping like flies before the snap is unethical but effective...
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I think the fake injuries show just how desperate defenses have gotten to try anything to at least slow teams down. While I don’t think we’ll ever see any specific rule changes that try to make the game more like it used to be. (People love offense) They could enforce some rules a little better that don’t turn every game into a ridiculous shootout. Mostly linemen getting too far downfield from on pass plays and the totally random way holding is enforced.
 
DTP said:
I think the fake injuries show just how desperate defenses have gotten to try anything to at least slow teams down. While I don’t think we’ll ever see any specific rule changes that try to make the game more like it used to be. (People love offense) They could enforce some rules a little better that don’t turn every game into a ridiculous shootout. Mostly linemen getting too far downfield from on pass plays and the totally random way holding is enforced.
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Defensive guys have to grind. If they stick to it the light bulb will go off. Now on the rules aspect, I totally agree....
 
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CaneSince4Ever said:
Aaaaand? Big schools steal from small schools all the time. Remember when WVU hung 70 on Clemson in the OB?...that lil' shovel pass that Tavon Austin put up video game numbers on came from Bob Stitt, HC of the Colorado School Of The Mines. But to answer the OP's question, Glenn "Tiger" Ellison invented the spread, He was a HS coach in Ohio...don't know if His name is in the video or not.
Click to expand...
I’m referring to winning at the highest level in CFB.
 
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