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When you guys watched Mendoza, did you really think "Oh, yeah, this guy should be the #1 overall pick in the draft!!!!"

bdub2284 said:
Andrew Luck might be the only QB I can remember that went to a team with a bad roster and was able to win games and have success. Their OLine was awful, Trent Richardson was a bust, and the defense was mediocre. He basically had TY Hilton and Colby Fleener, and he was able to win playoff games. Now his career was cut short because Ryan Grigson couldn't build a roster and Luck got beat up behind an awful OLine, and that was that. Like you said what surrounds a young QB 99.9% of the time dictates what kind of success he will have. Sometimes you're just better off being drafted later, but landing in a stable, well run organization.
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There are certainly exceptions, however Luck may be the exceptional exception. Specifically, the Colts were two seasons removed from a 14-2 then a 10-6 season before the sucked for Luck. As you said, their O Line was pretty bad and the defense was mid. They did have Reggie Wayne though. So yeah, he was drafteed by a bad team, but not necessarily a horrible operation like the Jets, Browns, Titans and Raiders.

All that to the side, Luck really was that good. I'm not sure I've seen a non-Manning college QB prospect ever get as much hype as Luck did....and it was deserved. For every story like Luck, there are 50 that go the other direction. Joey Harrington, Akili Smith, Jamarcus Russel, Ryan Leaf, Zach Wilson, Josh Rosen, Matt Leinart, Vince Young, Tim Tebow and many more.

All that said, I agree with you. Luck might be the only one I remember who fit the criteria and had success.
 
AtlAtty said:
Not in the same caliber as the list you provided, but who would you have drafted before him last season? Especially considering that the NFL always drafts QB’s too high.
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Without reviewing the Raiders roster, I think all of the players below would have been safer picks IMO:

David Bailey
Sonny Styles
Spencer Fano
Francis
Caleb Downs
Rueben Bain
 
BigDikDaddyFromCincinnati said:
Without reviewing the Raiders roster, I think all of the players below would have been safer picks IMO:

David Bailey
Sonny Styles
Spencer Fano
Francis
Caleb Downs
Rueben Bain
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You take Francis, Fano, Reuben, or Downs and you'd still have a number of picks where you can bring an infusion of talent to a bad roster.
 
bdub2284 said:
You take Francis, Fano, Reuben, or Downs and you'd still have a number of picks where you can bring an infusion of talent to a bad roster.
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I wasn't even factoring in the value of trading down. I simply listed the players that my non-GM culo would draft before Mendoza. The Rams traded up to 13 to get Ty Simpson. Imagine trading down, getting one of the guys you listed, then still having the draft capital to draft Simpson or Carson Beck later on. And yes, I'm well aware that I'm playing the results and I wouldn't know this in real time at that time. When you're a terrible franchise, the key is to increase draft capital. It's how Belichik was able to always score someone in the draft. When you have 10 picks instead of 7, you have a significant advantage.
 
bdub2284 said:
I would have traded the number one pick for the best package of draft picks I could get, my one condition would be that I need a top 10 pick along with other draft choices.The Raiders aren't a QB away but a lot of players away. I would have taken Cici Mauigoa or Reuben Bain. Then look to draft the best player available the rest of the way, and build the roster. Then you head into this upcoming draft with a stronger QB class, and a much improved roster to surround your young QB.
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This is a very fair postion to take and I wholeheartedly agree. But the Raiders and all the Tom Brady hype went for the “splash” with Mendoza coming off the championship. And i hope they suffer for it. Of course their position is probably something like ‘who cares if we are bad again. We will just have another high pick’.

Which is precisely the type of loser attitude that keeps some teams down even in a salary cap league.
 
BigDikDaddyFromCincinnati said:
Without reviewing the Raiders roster, I think all of the players below would have been safer picks IMO:

David Bailey
Sonny Styles
Spencer Fano
Francis
Caleb Downs
Rueben Bain
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Agree 100%. But you know how NFL GM’s like to make splash picks. Especially when the new part owner was a QB and likely ‘sees a lot of himself in Mendoza’.
 
Pimpdaddycane said:
Ruben Bain
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Buy you are drafting like a person who knows football and not a GM who wants to keep his job and has a boss that wants to fill the stadium. There is a reason bad franchises remain bad.

So my question should have been, ‘if you were the GM of the Raiders, with a minority owner in Tom Brady and a longtime owner who knows nothing about football but wants you to draft someone who will make headlines and drive ticket sales, then who would you have picked number 1?’.

Because that is the BS to many GM’s deal with and they all want one thing more than anything else. To stay employed at a job that pays really well.
 
AtlAtty said:
BigDikDaddyFromCincinnati said:
Without reviewing the Raiders roster, I think all of the players below would have been safer picks IMO:

David Bailey
Sonny Styles
Spencer Fano
Francis
Caleb Downs
Rueben Bain
Click to expand...
Agree 100%. But you know how NFL GM’s like to make splash picks. Especially when the new part owner was a QB and likely ‘sees a lot of himself in Mendoza’.
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Oh for sure. I think you missed a pause at the end….

Many GMs never learn the ole lesson of “My ego is not my amigo.”
 
cway313 said:
SB MVP Sam Darnold? This is a wild miss. Closer to Zach Wilson than Darnold. If expect something closer to Kyler Murray.
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Lol idc about that sb mvp, darnold has had a career resurgence but he ain’t nothing special, good game manager that has found a system that maximizes his strengths. He had an all time great defense. If you think he’s closer to zach i don’t think you know how bad zach is
 
E1k said:
Lol idc about that sb mvp, darnold has had a career resurgence but he ain’t nothing special, good game manager that has found a system that maximizes his strengths. He had an all time great defense. If you think he’s closer to zach i don’t think you know how bad zach is
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Kyler Murray trajectory
 
cway313 said:
Kyler Murray trajectory
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Kyler murray can’t even see over the line to attack the mof, mendoza has attacked the mof in pre season more than kyler ever has lol

I said sam darnold as his ceiling. You acting like that’s a high ceiling lol
 
AtlAtty said:
Buy you are drafting like a person who knows football and not a GM who wants to keep his job and has a boss that wants to fill the stadium. There is a reason bad franchises remain bad.

So my question should have been, ‘if you were the GM of the Raiders, with a minority owner in Tom Brady and a longtime owner who knows nothing about football but wants you to draft someone who will make headlines and drive ticket sales, then who would you have picked number 1?’.

Because that is the BS to many GM’s deal with and they all want one thing more than anything else. To stay employed at a job that pays really well.
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There’s precisely a reason bad teams stay bad. Titans in this years draft for example. Instead of doing the smart thing and getting Cam protection, they draft a wr. Some of these teams draft like it’s fantasy football or they just want a shiny new toy. Cam needs to demand a trade before that team derails his entire career.
 
Only a small group of quarterbacks have achieved this dual-championship feat:

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Jalen Hurts: Alabama (2017 National Championship) and Super Bowl LIX (2025)
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Joe Montana: Notre Dame (1977 National Championship) and four Super Bowls with the San Francisco 49ers
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Ken Stabler: Alabama (1965 National Championship) and Super Bowl XI with the Oakland Raiders
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Joe Namath: Alabama (1964 National Championship) and Super Bowl III with the New York Jets [1, 2]
 
I think the over drafting of QBs is even worse now with the way the CBA is for players contracts. These dumbasses are trying to steal the first 4-5yrs with a QB on the rookie contract. The Raiders really screwed the pooch drafting Mendoza 1st overall, at best he will develop into a decent QB but their roster is cheeks and they needed to trade out of that pick or pick the best available and start stacking talent.
 
E1k said:
Lol idc about that sb mvp, darnold has had a career resurgence but he ain’t nothing special, good game manager that has found a system that maximizes his strengths. He had an all time great defense. If you think he’s closer to zach i don’t think you know how bad zach is
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Did Minnesota system make Darnold the year before?
2024 Minnesota: 14-3, 4319 yards & 35/12
2025 Seattle: 14-3 SB, 4048 yards & 25/14

28-6 last 2 years as a starter with 2 different teams. Amazing what can happen when your in a stable environment and know you’re the guy.

He will put up even better numbers this year with a completely clear mind as the guy who has already won the big one.

Put some respect on that man
 
Cookie917 said:
AtlAtty said:
Not in the same caliber as the list you provided, but who would you have drafted before him last season? Especially considering that the NFL always drafts QB’s too high.
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I really wonder how GMs and team personnel have not figured out you build the team from the inside out?

Unless the QB is some generational level talent you HAVE to take #1, the Raiders, Browns etc. need to be drafting lineman that high, or trading back a few spots for another first round pick and get the lineman you want. Then once you have that core go find your QB. We see it all the time (especially with the browns) draft a qb in the first round, throw em in the fire with NO help, then wonder why he doesnt look like Brady out there.
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Say it again!!!
I can’t agree more with your sentiments on this.
 
RBradleigh said:
bdub2284 said:
You take Francis, Fano, Reuben, or Downs and you'd still have a number of picks where you can bring an infusion of talent to a bad roster.
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You always take the QB. And if you get it wrong you go after the QB again.
Dolphins take Jake Long instead of Matt Ryan. Only example I need.
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There’s a reason why statistical conclusions are best made with a large sample size.
 
RBradleigh said:
Did Minnesota system make Darnold the year before?
2024 Minnesota: 14-3, 4319 yards & 35/12
2025 Seattle: 14-3 SB, 4048 yards & 25/14

28-6 last 2 years as a starter with 2 different teams. Amazing what can happen when your in a stable environment and know you’re the guy.

He will put up even better numbers this year with a completely clear mind as the guy who has already won the big one.

Put some respect on that man
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It’s the same system as Minnesota. He fits great in that system.

Team records does not mean anything in a qb debate.

He is a good qb now but was mid for majority of his career, i dont think saying he is a #1 overall picks CEILING is disrespectful to him lol
 
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