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What Recruiting at Miami Should Look Like: Elite Feet

Ethnicsands said:
I was going to start a related thread, more broadly on manny’s recruiting, having started the planning thread last winter.

He does seem to have a type by position, is leaning into evals vs ratings, and seems to have a plan for how this comes together. He also looks to be working on guys who if we get them, will take spots others have claimed, so watch for decommits.

Most importantly, he’s made the lines a huge priority. He did what he could on OL last cycle, but it was hard when he got hired in January. Found Traore. But OL for ‘20 appears really solid. Not just numbers and ratings, but thick, strong, athletic kids, and then a long, solid LT prospect in Washington. On DL, he found 5 guys who can contribute last cycle, and without checking, I am pretty sure Blissett, Harvey, Cam Williams and Hunte are athletes like Lu is talkimbout. This cycle, Q. Williams is a plus athlete also, to go with Ch. Williams, Height. Like Roberts as a 3 tech, not so much as a DE. Not sure on Riggins and Moise. Will not be surprised if one of those guys isn’t in the class.

LB - we need more guys and he must feel good about the kids we’re on. Like Flagg as a prospect. Mathis seems athletically solid, it’s about LB instincts. Will reserve judgment here. Gotta believe Manny can recruit LBs. We’ll see.

WR, TE, RB, QB we are all over.

DB is an interesting question. We took solid guys who can contribute last cycle - Couch and Williams at CB, K. Smith at S. Bolden was a nice pick up. But we didn’t pull the top local guys, and Manny was the DC so he doesn’t get the same pass as he gets on OL. This is a down year in so fla for DBs. We got Francois, who is an important get. Hodges is an eval. Will reserve judgment. Branch is a solid take. Not sure K. Washington ends up in the class if we can land others. We definitely appear to be working to get another CB. Overall, I worry a bit we’re below grade for UM DBs, but the guys we are getting can play here and we may just have to wait a cycle or two to truly restock at DB.
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By many accounts couch was the top pure cover guy in Broward and probably Dade too..are dbs are fine. They have all the physical tools. They just need to get coached up
 
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LuCane said:
I don't usually get into recruiting this early in the season, but I acknowledge this class is particularly important for the Diaz era. A lot of it will depend on what we do during the season, but if these guys are hauled in (big IF), this is what Miami classes should look like year in, year out:

OL
Issiah Walker - He's starting to get the hype now, but a kid with plus, plus feet and movement. Already 285 pounds as a HS junior and his test numbers look closer to an NFL prospect. You take those attributes and his natural ability to drop his *** and anchor on contact, and you let him control a Tackle position for a few years.

Jalen Rivers - I know some of the adults in his life, so I'm biased with insight on this one. Let's put it this way, this is an obviously huge kid who ran a 5.4 shuttle in 2018 and then a near 5.0 flat shuttle a year later AT 330 POUNDS! Been told he's a good, disciplined kid and obviously he has a lot of the attributes. More molding to occur.

Jonathan Denis - This guy is who inspired this thread because, on another thread, someone mentioned we might drop him if we land bigger guys. Maybe, but it'd be a mistake. You don't drop 6' 3" 280 pound HS juniors who run 4.8 shuttles.

DL
Chantz Williams - Again, have been biased on this one because I know adults at Oakleaf who vouch for these dudes' work ethic and mentality. That's more important than most give it weight, but it's really exciting when you combine that with eye-popping attributes. You have a kid who we might luck into for various reasons, and he has an 80 inch wingspan and ripped a sub 4.5 shuttle in 2018?

Elijah Roberts - Some people have underrated him because, in my opinion, they have no vision. If you view him as a DE, he's a nice prospect. If you view him as a 3T DT, he's a potential high level contributor, if not star. 4.81 shuttle at nearly 270 pounds as a HS junior.

Romello Height - Couldn't find any verified numbers, but watched him closely on film and his short area is a plus attribute. Can't project too much, but this is a guy who'd have the time to RS and maintain that change of direction.

Note, these are just the LINEMEN (and I didn't list all).

Modern college football (and the NFL, really) is won and lost in change of direction. Things have become so advanced and analytical that may be true at most levels now. I've long said we (football enthusiasts) are going to get to a point where we need to check for two main attributes: mental processing speed (football processing, not math or literature, ha) and shuttle. Miami Hurricane football should pop off the screen. Like when you watched Jerome Brown, Russell Maryland, Kevin Williams, Daryl Williams, Sapp and later the '00s crew. Some of those guys weren't just fast. They accelerated and changed direction. Happy to see us focusing on prospects who do the same. The stars/accolades issue (which anyone can acknowledge is correlated) will work itself out in their Senior years and as we begin to finally win some f'in football games.
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Lu. Great post. And I agree with you.

Nicely done.
 
Cookie917 said:
Guess you missed the sarcasm and ASSumed I think its weird to talk hypotheticals.

Side note. I did enjoy the pic.
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What? You literally wrote the recruiting stuff was getting weird. Anyway, all good.

Here’s another pic. We want our users to have the best possible experience.
 

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I couldn't agree more. Shuttle times are far more indicative for a lineman than 40 times. When does a lineman ever run 40 yards in one direction during a game? Never. Quick feet and an ability to change direction and shift weight without getting off balance is the premium. Also @Ethnicsands hit the nail on the head when it comes to our staff's targets on both lines. They have zoned in on certain characteristics they find most important and target the guys who check those boxes. They have a "type" they purposely go after and they are trusting their own evaluations.
 
When it comes to edge players, I am all about the hips and bend. Thats my prototypical edge pass rusher. If you don't have the hips, you need to be able to cross the tackle inside which is when we start talking footwork, hands, and generating speed to power.

When it comes to OL. Joe Thomas during the 2019 Combine said it best and so succinctly that it should be the standard for how we evaluate OL. I don't have the exact quote, but in summary...OL is all about how fast you get back into your set, square up, and load up with power. He also said that on that first step...for a tackle, that kick step, nothing should move above the hips - its wasted movement. Said its all about hips and feet. -- now, away from Thomas' evaluation...this lines up with the 20-yard shuttle (short shuttle) being such a important metric when evaluating offensive line to the NFL...its all about measuring quickness and change-of-direction. The OL that often succeeds with the above are your technician types. There are other ways to win...especially in college, but those are going to be the players that are a bigger and longer arms, they tend to win with more upper body...its sloppier, but some win with ****ty feet because they just have a different set of skills and techniques they've honed over the years - but those are the types that bust more.

Good post, Lu.

The types of OL we are recruiting lean heavily on the ideas that Joe Thomas laid out above. Guys a bit lighter that are more technique oriented players. There was a clip of Issiah Walker on twitter during - I think it was the Opening Regionals(??) where he was one-on-one and he kick stepped so flawlessly and just popped a dude and put him on his ***. Not sure where it is these days - the ether perhaps - but I've been all aboard with Walker since that clip.
 
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LuCane said:
I don't usually get into recruiting this early in the season, but I acknowledge this class is particularly important for the Diaz era. A lot of it will depend on what we do during the season, but if these guys are hauled in (big IF), this is what Miami classes should look like year in, year out:

OL
Issiah Walker - He's starting to get the hype now, but a kid with plus, plus feet and movement. Already 285 pounds as a HS junior and his test numbers look closer to an NFL prospect. You take those attributes and his natural ability to drop his *** and anchor on contact, and you let him control a Tackle position for a few years.

Jalen Rivers - I know some of the adults in his life, so I'm biased with insight on this one. Let's put it this way, this is an obviously huge kid who ran a 5.4 shuttle in 2018 and then a near 5.0 flat shuttle a year later AT 330 POUNDS! Been told he's a good, disciplined kid and obviously he has a lot of the attributes. More molding to occur.

Jonathan Denis - This guy is who inspired this thread because, on another thread, someone mentioned we might drop him if we land bigger guys. Maybe, but it'd be a mistake. You don't drop 6' 3" 280 pound HS juniors who run 4.8 shuttles.

DL
Chantz Williams - Again, have been biased on this one because I know adults at Oakleaf who vouch for these dudes' work ethic and mentality. That's more important than most give it weight, but it's really exciting when you combine that with eye-popping attributes. You have a kid who we might luck into for various reasons, and he has an 80 inch wingspan and ripped a sub 4.5 shuttle in 2018?

Elijah Roberts - Some people have underrated him because, in my opinion, they have no vision. If you view him as a DE, he's a nice prospect. If you view him as a 3T DT, he's a potential high level contributor, if not star. 4.81 shuttle at nearly 270 pounds as a HS junior.

Romello Height - Couldn't find any verified numbers, but watched him closely on film and his short area is a plus attribute. Can't project too much, but this is a guy who'd have the time to RS and maintain that change of direction.

Note, these are just the LINEMEN (and I didn't list all).

Modern college football (and the NFL, really) is won and lost in change of direction. Things have become so advanced and analytical that may be true at most levels now. I've long said we (football enthusiasts) are going to get to a point where we need to check for two main attributes: mental processing speed (football processing, not math or literature, ha) and shuttle. Miami Hurricane football should pop off the screen. Like when you watched Jerome Brown, Russell Maryland, Kevin Williams, Daryl Williams, Sapp and later the '00s crew. Some of those guys weren't just fast. They accelerated and changed direction. Happy to see us focusing on prospects who do the same. The stars/accolades issue (which anyone can acknowledge is correlated) will work itself out in their Senior years and as we begin to finally win some f'in football games.
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Excellent post LuCane! Thank you for your contribution. I greatly appreciate it!!
 
LuCane said:
Seems like you missed the explanation of why it came up. Someone on another thread mentioned we’d drop Denis if we pulled another recruit. If you think it’s weird to talk about hypotheticals on a recruiting board based almost entirely on speculation, youre probably gonna have a terrible experience on here.

Here’s a pic to improve your experience.
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Lu is taking this discussion to a whole nother level. i am inspired.
 
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LuCane said:
I don't usually get into recruiting this early in the season, but I acknowledge this class is particularly important for the Diaz era. A lot of it will depend on what we do during the season, but if these guys are hauled in (big IF), this is what Miami classes should look like year in, year out:

OL
Issiah Walker - He's starting to get the hype now, but a kid with plus, plus feet and movement. Already 285 pounds as a HS junior and his test numbers look closer to an NFL prospect. You take those attributes and his natural ability to drop his *** and anchor on contact, and you let him control a Tackle position for a few years.

Jalen Rivers - I know some of the adults in his life, so I'm biased with insight on this one. Let's put it this way, this is an obviously huge kid who ran a 5.4 shuttle in 2018 and then a near 5.0 flat shuttle a year later AT 330 POUNDS! Been told he's a good, disciplined kid and obviously he has a lot of the attributes. More molding to occur.

Jonathan Denis - This guy is who inspired this thread because, on another thread, someone mentioned we might drop him if we land bigger guys. Maybe, but it'd be a mistake. You don't drop 6' 3" 280 pound HS juniors who run 4.8 shuttles.

DL
Chantz Williams - Again, have been biased on this one because I know adults at Oakleaf who vouch for these dudes' work ethic and mentality. That's more important than most give it weight, but it's really exciting when you combine that with eye-popping attributes. You have a kid who we might luck into for various reasons, and he has an 80 inch wingspan and ripped a sub 4.5 shuttle in 2018?

Elijah Roberts - Some people have underrated him because, in my opinion, they have no vision. If you view him as a DE, he's a nice prospect. If you view him as a 3T DT, he's a potential high level contributor, if not star. 4.81 shuttle at nearly 270 pounds as a HS junior.

Romello Height - Couldn't find any verified numbers, but watched him closely on film and his short area is a plus attribute. Can't project too much, but this is a guy who'd have the time to RS and maintain that change of direction.

Note, these are just the LINEMEN (and I didn't list all).

Modern college football (and the NFL, really) is won and lost in change of direction. Things have become so advanced and analytical that may be true at most levels now. I've long said we (football enthusiasts) are going to get to a point where we need to check for two main attributes: mental processing speed (football processing, not math or literature, ha) and shuttle. Miami Hurricane football should pop off the screen. Like when you watched Jerome Brown, Russell Maryland, Kevin Williams, Daryl Williams, Sapp and later the '00s crew. Some of those guys weren't just fast. They accelerated and changed direction. Happy to see us focusing on prospects who do the same. The stars/accolades issue (which anyone can acknowledge is correlated) will work itself out in their Senior years and as we begin to finally win some f'in football games.
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Is Height in the same type of mold as a Pat Joyner?
 
Too bad LuCane didn't get into other positions like LB. Lance ROFLs says Flagg is too slow because he got tripped by an OL kicking his feet out at the goal line. 88% of All-ACC LBs would teleport from the ground and make the play. How can you beat quality analysis like that?
 
BoxingRobes said:
When it comes to edge players, I am all about the hips and bend. Thats my prototypical edge pass rusher. If you don't have the hips, you need to be able to cross the tackle inside which is when we start talking footwork, hands, and generating speed to power.

When it comes to OL. Joe Thomas during the 2019 Combine said it best and so succinctly that it should be the standard for how we evaluate OL. I don't have the exact quote, but in summary...OL is all about how fast you get back into your set, square up, and load up with power. He also said that on that first step...for a tackle, that kick step, nothing should move above the hips - its wasted movement. Said its all about hips and feet. -- now, away from Thomas' evaluation...this lines up with the 20-yard shuttle (short shuttle) being such a important metric when evaluating offensive line to the NFL...its all about measuring quickness and change-of-direction. The OL that often succeeds with the above are your technician types. There are other ways to win...especially in college, but those are going to be the players that are a bigger and longer arms, they tend to win with more upper body...its sloppier, but some win with ****ty feet because they just have a different set of skills and techniques they've honed over the years - but those are the types that bust more.

Good post, Lu.

The types of OL we are recruiting lean heavily on the ideas that Joe Thomas laid out above. Guys a bit lighter that are more technique oriented players. There was a clip of Issiah Walker on twitter during - I think it was the Opening Regionals(??) where he was one-on-one and he kick stepped so flawlessly and just popped a dude and put him on his ***. Not sure where it is these days - the ether perhaps - but I've been all aboard with Walker since that clip.
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Tremendous post. Could talk about this stuff for days. Sometimes wish I had taken it up as a career.
 
Last class we took 2 Tackles, 1 Guard, and 1 Center

Also if you look at the Roster, we barely can go 2 deep on the OL especially at Tackle. We need talent and to load up on it. Washington is a project, Rivers and Walker are future potential All-ACC players. Also Rivers could be a swing player here. And if we have a shot at Dumervil, You freaking take that shot.

Also there is a 4* G from Louisiana who is interested, bigger, and better than Denis.
 
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2.0 said:
Last class we took 2 Tackles, 1 Guard, and 1 Center

Also if you look at the Roster, we barely can go 2 deep on the OL especially at Tackle. We need talent and to load up on it. Washington is a project, Rivers and Walker are future potential All-ACC players. Also Rivers could be a swing player here. And if we have a shot at Dumervil, You freaking take that shot.

Also there is a 4* G from Louisiana who is interested, bigger, and better than Denis.
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I agree that Rivers is a possible RT/OG swing player. I’m not comparing them as players, but the style brings back memories of Vernon Carey.
 
@LuCane Do you see Roberts in the mold of an RJ McIntosh? Seems like similar build and numbers, both were SDE's that could grow into a DT.
 
DMoney said:
Well said and I would add a couple guys:

Tyler Van Dyke ran a 4.28 shuttle at 6'4, 212. For comparison, that's the same shuttle Baker Mayfield ran at the combine. Chris Washington, who projects to be a 6'7, 315 lb. monster, ran a 4.9 shuttle at the Opening.

Coach Feeley said he doesn't even test 40s anymore because he believes the shuttle is the more important test for football players. So this is obviously a program-wide emphasis.
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shuttle is more important then 40 thats a fact
 
BoxingRobes said:
When it comes to OL. Joe Thomas during the 2019 Combine said it best and so succinctly that it should be the standard for how we evaluate OL. I don't have the exact quote, but in summary...OL is all about how fast you get back into your set, square up, and load up with power. He also said that on that first step...for a tackle, that kick step, nothing should move above the hips - its wasted movement. Said its all about hips and feet. -- now, away from Thomas' evaluation...this lines up with the 20-yard shuttle (short shuttle) being such a important metric when evaluating offensive line to the NFL...its all about measuring quickness and change-of-direction. The OL that often succeeds with the above are your technician types. There are other ways to win...especially in college, but those are going to be the players that are a bigger and longer arms, they tend to win with more upper body...its sloppier, but some win with ****ty feet because they just have a different set of skills and techniques they've honed over the years - but those are the types that bust more.
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When it comes to women and offensive linemen, I focus on flexibility and lower-body. The upper body can come with development.

Jonathan Denis is a guy with the shoulders of a WR, but his weight is in his lower-half and he gets under every defensive linemen he blocks.
 
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