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What is wrong with our defense this year ??

cscramon said:
We have enough talent to be at least average or above it, but why is our defense performing so poorly , specially if Manny is he true defensive coordinator ?

CS
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Lets Go Football GIF by Miami Hurricanes
 
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90scane said:
1. Bad player personnel choices: Ivey, Jennings, Hall
2. Lack of talent at DE
3. Lack of talent at LB
4. Very young elite talents at S and experienced S playing poorly.
5. DT talent isn't elite and the young elite kid wasn't getting snaps until recently.
6. Lack of quality depth at CB.

I don't see an answer in our '22 class for DE or LB. S play should continue to improve IF JW is coachable. CB should improve in '22 with the big class coming in. DT should improve with LT getting more snaps.
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I would add terrible play calling. I am not paid to watch film and you know exactly the 3-5 plays Manny will call on each down and distance.

It seemed like Bama knew exactly where we were blitzing on every third down.
 
canesmh18 said:
When Manny was DC '16-18. He benefited from the entire coastal having limp **** offenses. The very few times we encountered a functional offense/qb - he got exposed everytime. Including group of 5 schools like Toledo in 2017.

Now the coastal & ACC have plenty of above average QB's and it's just a continuation of him getting exposed.
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Partly but it's much more than that. Back then he could rely on freakish talent at DE to anchor his pressure create havoc type defense. In addition to this he had much better CB play to go along with Quarterman and Pinckney at LB. Add in a pair of veteran safeties like Redwine and Johnson and there you have it. We were very well suited to bullying the mediocre quarterbacks and pedestrian offenses of the ACC back then.

It all starts up front and our DEs cannot get consistent edge pressure. They also cannot win 1 on 1 matchups nearly enough for our defense to be effective. I don't know how many times I'm going to have to continue to repeat these points as nobody seems to get it through their heads.

Take the situation at DE then add the same absence of production from the Mike LB, 2 true freshmen safeties and a total mess at CB outside Stevenson. Add all of this up and factor in the fact that the ACC now happens to have maybe the best QB play in the nation top to bottom and you have what we have been seeing practically the entire year.

Usually I would expect to start seeing tangible improvement from the defense as the season progresses but in this case my expectations are more tapered for one reason. DE. I just don't see where the consistent edge pressure is going to start coming from unless we see big improvement from Harvey, Chantz Williams and Zack McCloud as pass rushers. I haven't seen much evidence that any of them have a high enough ceiling there for us to expect significant improvement in a season. For Williams and Harvey perhaps in another year or so but that question is best answered by guys like @LuCane @DMoney @Liberty City El @gogeta4 @HighSeas @Dwinstitles etc .....
 
FrancisSawyer said:
Partly but it's much more than that. Back then he could rely on freakish talent at DE to anchor his pressure create havoc type defense. In addition to this he had much better CB play to go along with Quarterman and Pinckney at LB. Add in a pair of veteran safeties like Redwine and Johnson and there you have it. We were very well suited to bullying the mediocre quarterbacks and pedestrian offenses of the ACC back then.

It all starts up front and our DEs cannot get consistent edge pressure. They also cannot win 1 on 1 matchups nearly enough for our defense to be effective. I don't know how many times I'm going to have to continue to repeat these points as nobody seems to get it through their heads.

Take the situation at DE then add the same absence of production from the Mike LB, 2 true freshmen safeties and a total mess at CB outside Stevenson. Add all of this up and factor in the fact that the ACC now happens to have maybe the best QB play in the nation top to bottom and you have what we have been seeing practically the entire year.

Usually I would expect to start seeing tangible improvement from the defense as the season progresses but in this case my expectations are more tapered for one reason. DE. I just don't see where the consistent edge pressure is going to start coming from unless we see big improvement from Harvey, Chantz Williams and Zack McCloud as pass rushers. I haven't seen much evidence that any of them have a high enough ceiling there for us to expect significant improvement in a season. For Williams and Harvey perhaps in another year or so but that question is best answered by guys like @LuCane @DMoney @Liberty City El @gogeta4 @HighSeas @Dwinstitles etc .....
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I agree with everything you said. The personnel isn't very good. Thats obviously his fault since he's been recruiting and developing it for 6yrs.

I still think even those previous players benefited from the atrocious offenses we had in the ACC. Absolute scrubs like Kelly Bryant and Alex Hornibrook legit had career days against those same players.

No changes get made either. Manny has no idea what he's doing. The middle of the field is open and it never closes. Pitt receivers were 2 yards open the entire game. Josh Downs caught 11 balls in a half before Manny realized that playing Gurvan isolated on him just might not be our best option
 
canesmh18 said:
I agree with everything you said. The personnel isn't very good. Thats obviously his fault since he's been recruiting and developing it for 6yrs.

I still think even those previous players benefited from the atrocious offenses we had in the ACC. Absolute scrubs like Kelly Bryant and Alex Hornibrook legit had career days against those same players.

No changes get made either. Manny has no idea what he's doing. The middle of the field is open and it never closes. Pitt receivers were 2 yards open the entire game. Josh Downs caught 11 balls in a half before Manny realized that playing Gurvan isolated on him just might not be our best option
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Agreed and just for the record I never said it wasn't Manny's fault. My post wasn't geared at defending him but rather to analyze the personnel issues that are at the crux of our atrocious defensive performance.

Trust me. I'm no fan of Diaz. It was his abject failure in the area of recruiting and roster management that has put us in this position.
 
No Gerald Willis or Jaquan Johnson to cover-up deficiencies.

No Shaq or Pickney at LB with either speed or a feel for the game.
 
canesmh18 said:
I agree with everything you said. The personnel isn't very good. Thats obviously his fault since he's been recruiting and developing it for 6yrs.

I still think even those previous players benefited from the atrocious offenses we had in the ACC. Absolute scrubs like Kelly Bryant and Alex Hornibrook legit had career days against those same players.

No changes get made either. Manny has no idea what he's doing. The middle of the field is open and it never closes. Pitt receivers were 2 yards open the entire game. Josh Downs caught 11 balls in a half before Manny realized that playing Gurvan isolated on him just might not be our best option
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You know we beat Pitt don't you?
 
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canesmh18 said:
I agree with everything you said. The personnel isn't very good. Thats obviously his fault since he's been recruiting and developing it for 6yrs.

I still think even those previous players benefited from the atrocious offenses we had in the ACC. Absolute scrubs like Kelly Bryant and Alex Hornibrook legit had career days against those same players.

No changes get made either. Manny has no idea what he's doing. The middle of the field is open and it never closes. Pitt receivers were 2 yards open the entire game. Josh Downs caught 11 balls in a half before Manny realized that playing Gurvan isolated on him just might not be our best option
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I would like to address the last two paragraphs because I think many fans have a misconception about the middle of the field on defense and that Manny doesn't know what he's doing etc. First off I'll reinterate what I have said previously. I'm no fan of Diaz and I don't like his scheme for many reasons. Having said that people need to understand that Diaz knows that the middle of the field is wide open and that is a byproduct of his scheme. Now I will agree that in general the guy doesn't know what he's doing and that he relies on window dressing and gimmicks over substance. I do not like or agree with the philosophy behind his scheme but Diaz leaves that middle of the field open by design. To understand why you have to understand his defensive philosophy.

At the end of the day, Diaz's goal defensively is to prevent big plays. Diaz also believes in creating pressure and chaos at the line of scrimmage. In this manner he is able to create negative plays such as TFLs, sacks, pressures, forced fumbles, strip sacks, tipped balls and interceptions. In doing so his defense when functioning the way intended can create a lot of 2nd and long and 3rd and long situations for the offense where he can then have the upper hand in terms in dictating personel to the offense etc. Now the catch is that if his pressures, blitzes, stunts etc do not get home and the quarterback is able to set and throw then the offense has a good opportunity to create a big, explosive play which Diaz wants to avoid at all costs. So Diaz establishes a safety net. A fail safe mechanism so to speak. That safety net consists of playing very soft zone coverage or whatever variation behind his attacking front with his secondary. This way if the offense is consistently beating his defenses chaos and pressure Diaz knows that he will surrender completions and 1st downs but he will considerably cut down on the chances of the offense creating an explosive play or a scoring play thereby giving his defense another down to fight again. This also fits with the philosophy that even if the offense gets completions and 1st downs, that they will have to drive the length of the field thereby increasing the likelihood of the offense making a mistake. Obviously there are many variables that affect this. There are also the instances where he has a CB group that excels in man to man coverage. In that case he can play man behind his attacking front or mix up his coverages from man to zone and vice versa in order to keep the offense off balance. This is why Diaz and Banda used to harp so much on the importance of the safeties being sure tacklers. We could go into much more detail like the fact that the front 7 is super aggressive yet fundamentally unsound which can lead to giving up explosive plays in the run game but for our purposes that is it in a nutshell.
 
Manny without elite edge players is taking candy from a baby. The worst scheme in America
 
No real pass rush.
Terrible tackling.
Slow LBs.
Middle of the field stays wide open.
 
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My first issue is, we don't make an effort to take away anything specific. We seem to just line-up in whatever call we like, and run it regardless of what the offense is doing.
I've watched us make absolutely no effort to take away opponent's best players. I'll never forget covering Tutu Atwell 1-on-1 with Bolden all game.

In the UNC game...
UNC lines-up in a 3x1 bunch set. Common man-beating formation. Yet what do we do? We play man coverage on their best WR with Gurvan Hall, and provide no help underneath.
As a DC myself, I would never stay in man coverage versus a 3x1 bunch set unless I was gonna drop a 'middle hole' defender underneath to rob any inside routes that are inevitably going to come open. YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE OFFENSE IS TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH ON THAT SPECIFIC PLAY!!! If they're in a bunch set, then they're trying to get somebody open with rubs routes and confusion.

Alabama game...
Coming out of their own endzone...
Bama line-up in 3x1 bunch set.
We play Cover-1 man with NO BLITZ, and the middle field Safety lined-up ON THE BOUNDARY (short side) HASH!!!
Their WR runs a post/corner route versus Ivey...with all day to throw...and no Safety help at all because he was on the short-side of the field!
This is just comically bad! This is high school level incompetence. Why would your only Safety be helping the short-side when there's 3 WR's to the wide side?! If you were trying to bracket the single-WR then you could've went 2-high coverage and had help to both sides!

I see blunders like this every week!
The issue I have with this defense is...many of the issues I see weekly are easily preventable.


Someone tell me ONE THING that this defense does a good job of taking away.

My personal philosophy on defense is to take away the MIDDLE OF THE FIELD, passes and runs. You will NOT throw or run the ball down the middle of the field (in between the hashes). That's where all the easy throws and runs are. Anything that has to go OUTSIDE THE HASHES is lower percentage. (statistical fact) Also, we want to force every run to bounce. We want to force every QB to throw outside and deep. The percentage of success decreases significantly out there. The lowest completed throw on the field is outside/vertical. Our Cover-3-Match aggressively covers inside WR's, takes way bubbles, hitches, seam routes, slants and speed outs. We force you to throw the ball deep and outside, where we have the sideline for help. In the run game, we try to prevent all down-hill runs and force offenses to go east/west, where it takes longer and we can run things down.
We're not gonna sacrifice integrity or leverage for the sake of creating "chaos". That's how you find yourself giving up easy completions.

If Manny's philosophy is to play "bend but don't break" and hope that offense makes it's own mistakes, that's goofy. Good offenses won't make enough mistakes. They'll simply take the easy underneath stuff that you give them on a platter.
To the contrary, it's much harder for an offense to succeed if you force them to throw deep/outside during the entire course of a game. If your CB's are any good, there's no offense that can win all 4 quarters in that fashion. We watched Seattle dominate the NFL with this philosophy for years.

Decide what your philosophy is gonna be and choose your personnel accordingly.
 
Canesq said:
I would add terrible play calling. I am not paid to watch film and you know exactly the 3-5 plays Manny will call on each down and distance.

It seemed like Bama knew exactly where we were blitzing on every third down.
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If I’m looking at the calls, I’d be more upset with the zone D that allowed QBs to pick our D apart. I’m also more concerned with the personnel choices. I guess we better recruit and retain elite kids or Manny will just start the most experienced kids even if they suck.
 
I'd also like to add...
When you play a more tight version of coverage (match coverage)...tackling becomes less of an issue.
Instead of defenders covering grass, and then having to run downhill to tackle offensive players in the open field, they're attacking routes as they distribute. So when/if the ball is caught there's always a defender showing up immediately.

Imagine playing a hook-to-curl zone and a shifty slot WR catches a simple 6 yard route.
Now you have to run downhill full speed, break down and tackle.

When your defenders are taught to "look for work" and "match" routes, then they are much closer to the ball carrier once he catches the ball. This gives the offensive guy much less time to gather his feet and figure out his next move. It leads to much less YAC.
 
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