RiDLer80
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He is the reason the WEZ makes fun of CIS porsters.
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We should hire a spread coach
- Thread starter CanesAreAble
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He is the reason the WEZ makes fun of CIS porsters.
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Southbeach44
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Kevin Wilson would light it up..He scores a ton with Indiana's players. He would dominate with our kids.
GhostofVenice01
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We definitely needed another one of these threads. Good looks.
FStopShooter
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The university should've thrown every penny they had at Sumlin while he was at Houston.
GhostofVenice01
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LOL@ THE DELUSIONAL AL SLURPERS STLL IN DENIAL TRYING TO BE FUNNY NOW
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tokengator
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Florida HS football is spread heavy. Florida athletes are recruited all over the country because they are perfect for the spread.
Our dumbass coach tried to play the power pro set offense. It was awful. He woke up and realized we needed a spread so hired a no huddle up tempo spread guy. Jury is still out obviously but that is what the talent in this state is built for (any version of a spread offense really). If our offense fails this year it won't be an indictment on the offense but the coaching staff and the lack of talent they have accumulated over the last 4 years.
It is also an offense that is easy to learn (with a good coach) -- often made to look complicated -- like chip kelly who might have the most simplistic offense out there but lots of repetition means great execution and less thinking more doing.
The simplicity also helps in getting kids on the field and contributing early. Kids playing these systems in HS just speeds up that transition all the more.
complicated offenses are extremely difficult for college kids. There is just not enough practice time. You need to have a really good teacher of the offense for it to be successful and truthfully the teaching part is a rare quality. And it only takes one recruiting class of dumbasses that learn things slow and your offense bogs down.
Defenses in college are generally simple concepts as well...they have the same issues as the offense with practice time. YOu don't need these super advanced offenses to beat basic defenses.
Execution is the key. Simple offense, lots of repetition, and execution. Where guys like Chip kelly set themselves apart is the way they design their formations and variations of the same play. They can run the same play 10 times in a game but the formation will look different each time.
People clinging to pro set (what is a pro set anymore anyway? lots and lots of NFL teams are running some form of spread offense) are probably the same types lamenting the forward pass back in the day.
Our dumbass coach tried to play the power pro set offense. It was awful. He woke up and realized we needed a spread so hired a no huddle up tempo spread guy. Jury is still out obviously but that is what the talent in this state is built for (any version of a spread offense really). If our offense fails this year it won't be an indictment on the offense but the coaching staff and the lack of talent they have accumulated over the last 4 years.
It is also an offense that is easy to learn (with a good coach) -- often made to look complicated -- like chip kelly who might have the most simplistic offense out there but lots of repetition means great execution and less thinking more doing.
The simplicity also helps in getting kids on the field and contributing early. Kids playing these systems in HS just speeds up that transition all the more.
complicated offenses are extremely difficult for college kids. There is just not enough practice time. You need to have a really good teacher of the offense for it to be successful and truthfully the teaching part is a rare quality. And it only takes one recruiting class of dumbasses that learn things slow and your offense bogs down.
Defenses in college are generally simple concepts as well...they have the same issues as the offense with practice time. YOu don't need these super advanced offenses to beat basic defenses.
Execution is the key. Simple offense, lots of repetition, and execution. Where guys like Chip kelly set themselves apart is the way they design their formations and variations of the same play. They can run the same play 10 times in a game but the formation will look different each time.
People clinging to pro set (what is a pro set anymore anyway? lots and lots of NFL teams are running some form of spread offense) are probably the same types lamenting the forward pass back in the day.
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HighSeas
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Spread vs. pro-style isn't as important as good line play. You're not gonna run any kind of successful spread offense with the OL we have now - all big slobs who can't bend or keep their feet moving. Look at the OL that Oregon, TAMU, and Auburn had during their peak years and there's your answer for why those teams were contenders.
If we hire a spread-oriented coach and (OL) recruiting remains the same there would still be little to separate us from Duke, GT, and Louisville in particular. All those slow-developing misdirection and option plays would just make the offense even more self-destructive. I'd rather see us hire a coach who's not married to a scheme but adapts and adjusts it based on personnel, opponent, game flow, down and distance, etc. In other words, the opposite of what we saw on Saturday with the stubborn commitment to inside run game, quick screens, bootlegs and soft zone on D with 7-8 dropping in coverage.
If we hire a spread-oriented coach and (OL) recruiting remains the same there would still be little to separate us from Duke, GT, and Louisville in particular. All those slow-developing misdirection and option plays would just make the offense even more self-destructive. I'd rather see us hire a coach who's not married to a scheme but adapts and adjusts it based on personnel, opponent, game flow, down and distance, etc. In other words, the opposite of what we saw on Saturday with the stubborn commitment to inside run game, quick screens, bootlegs and soft zone on D with 7-8 dropping in coverage.
tokengator
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OLine is critical to any offense, correct.
but there is just no ******* need to have a uber sophisticated offense in college. KISS principle rules the day.
these guys with these massive playbooks and **** generally fail --- Remember Whipple and his moby **** playbook? Charlie Wiess, the dolphins former OC when he was at TAMU, lane kiffin, I mean sure there are guys that are able to do it. Some guys know how to teach sophisticated concepts to a bunch of distracted 18 and 19 year olds. It is a gift....but it isn't necessary. It is overkill and sure it sounds nice to recruits "we teach NFL concepts so you will be more prepared" and it sounds great in theory. Theory and reality don't always work out...in fact, more often than not they don't. What they also don't tell kids is that talent matters more than anything when it comes to the NFL. Talent is what gets you drafted high, not playing in a certain type of offense.
Reality is that you only have 20 hours a week to teach it where in the NFL they have 24/7...and when college coach tried to load up kids with a bunch of complicated **** the kid ends up with his head spinning, thinking more than doing and ultimately playing stiff or making a **** load of mistakes. This is the more common result of highly sophisticated college offense.
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killa1storm
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I never get the 'Oregon hasn't won anything' arguments. They're in the middle of nowhere Oregon. What you should be saying is that due to their system they were able to take lesser ranked kids and compete with teams they have no business competing with. The fact that they had gone to 4 straight BCS games prior to last year is in itself amazing considering the talent base they recruit from.
I can only assume that those who still call those systems 'gimmicks' don't know much about football. There is nothing 'gimmicky' about forcing a defense to defend the entire field. If you watch Oregon play you know they employ a lot of principles that have been around for decades. In the run game they utilize unbalanced lines, 7 OL formations, 2 TE sets, etc. Those are as old as the game of football itself. It is basically wishbone and I-Formation principles from the gun.
I can only assume that those who still call those systems 'gimmicks' don't know much about football. There is nothing 'gimmicky' about forcing a defense to defend the entire field. If you watch Oregon play you know they employ a lot of principles that have been around for decades. In the run game they utilize unbalanced lines, 7 OL formations, 2 TE sets, etc. Those are as old as the game of football itself. It is basically wishbone and I-Formation principles from the gun.
tokengator
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The state of Oregon has like 10 BCS level recruits a year worth a ****. It is incredible what those two coaches -- especially Chip Kelly -- did to that program.
They got kids wanting to go up to Eugene now. Sure Nike helps but Phil Knight has been attached to that schools for a very long time...only when Belotti and then Kelly came around did that program take off.
They got kids wanting to go up to Eugene now. Sure Nike helps but Phil Knight has been attached to that schools for a very long time...only when Belotti and then Kelly came around did that program take off.
killa1storm
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Yep. I read an article a guy sent to me that said in Chip Kelly's first year not a single starter on the OL had a BCS offer. I'll post if I find it, but IIRC that year they led the nation in rushing with that talent.
When Oregon played the big boys they tended to struggle, but that was more about talent, not system. System can only do so much. From a pure talent perspective you could argue they had no business accomplishing all that they accomplished.
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tokengator
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look what the Hal Mumme/Mike Leach air raid offense has done for TAMU. They went from serious little brother/2nd fiddle to Texas -- a program with so much support it has a viable cable network all to itself -- is now 2nd fiddle to TAMU. Granted, if texas wins that will change but TAMU forced the issue with an exciting offense. It brings attention and gets recruits to your door. Obviously,the coaches have work to do from that point but that program turned around in a big way when they brought in the air raid.
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Dude would be the perfect fit...
I'm telling you guys now... Lets go hard after Leach...
Leach said that he would coach my Canes for free mane.. I've been a Leach fan ever since...
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/s...x-texas-tech-coach-mike-leach-wants-to/nLnD9/
Commentary: Ex-Texas Tech coach Mike Leach wants to coach the Miami Hurricanes, and UM should at least listen
He'd take the Miami job in a second, installing the same crazy "Air Raid" offense that made him a spectacle in 10 seasons at Texas Tech until his ugly firing last December. So far, though, there's been no contact with UM.
"It's a great job and I think it would be a great fit," Leach said. "We'd have an exciting brand of football. We'll fill the seats and we'll win games and we'll win ACC championships.
"If you look at the guys on NFL rosters, in the Big 12 Texas has 32, Oklahoma has 29, Nebraska has 28 and Texas Tech has nine. Still, my record against Nebraska was something like 5-1 and we beat Oklahoma three out of the last five times.
CanesAreAble
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Awsi Dooger
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Too many of the spread coaches have been idiots who stubbornly refused to adjust their game based on situation. They have earned the ridicule and skepticism that is abundant in this thread. Mike Leach is a moron who refuses to average even 20 rushes per game. Often the second lowest in the country is 8 or 9 rushes per game higher than Leach.
Other spread coaches run the ball as a rule but refuse to incorporate power formations when needed. Oregon has been like that. They often get stuffed in critical short yardage and goal line situations.
As more and more coaches adopt spread looks, you'll see a sensible hybrid, teams that have no reluctance to use different personnel and emphasis based on situation. Auburn already demonstrates plenty of this, lining up in power looks closer to the goal line. Heck, Alabama beat them to it. When Malzahn was gone from Auburn for a while the Tide used some spread concepts in midfield then shifted seamlessly to prototype power in the red zone or when the situation called for it. It was marvelous. The announcers never emphasized it enough. The pro teams that use spread concepts generally return to pro set in those situations. As a USC alum I hope Sarkisian is wise enough to do the same thing. I didn't pay enough attention last week since I only had a first half wager and that was decided early.
The key is to get the right guy. If you get a weakling who doesn't understand the need for high rushing attempts and power flexibility, it will be far worse than where we are now. I don't want to be a cupcake.
Other spread coaches run the ball as a rule but refuse to incorporate power formations when needed. Oregon has been like that. They often get stuffed in critical short yardage and goal line situations.
As more and more coaches adopt spread looks, you'll see a sensible hybrid, teams that have no reluctance to use different personnel and emphasis based on situation. Auburn already demonstrates plenty of this, lining up in power looks closer to the goal line. Heck, Alabama beat them to it. When Malzahn was gone from Auburn for a while the Tide used some spread concepts in midfield then shifted seamlessly to prototype power in the red zone or when the situation called for it. It was marvelous. The announcers never emphasized it enough. The pro teams that use spread concepts generally return to pro set in those situations. As a USC alum I hope Sarkisian is wise enough to do the same thing. I didn't pay enough attention last week since I only had a first half wager and that was decided early.
The key is to get the right guy. If you get a weakling who doesn't understand the need for high rushing attempts and power flexibility, it will be far worse than where we are now. I don't want to be a cupcake.