We could take up to 30 in the 2018 class

Canes1968

Sophomore
Joined
Jan 27, 2017
Messages
2,580
Here's how:

We currently have 80 scholarship players on roster, so 5 available scholarships right now.

We currently have 11 Seniors and Red Shirt Seniors on roster, so 11 scholarships will open up through graduation.

There are 4 players who could declare early for the NFL draft (Willis, McIntosh, Norton, Walton).

There are 7 Red Shirt Juniors who will have their degrees, so we could choose not to renew their scholarships for a 5th year (Rosier, Jones, McCray, Smith, Mayes, Gray, Langham).

There are 3 underclassmen that we should encourage to transfer if they don't show signs of providing quality depth in 2017 (Fines, Mahoney, Henley).


Add that all up and we could get to 30 in the 2018 class if the staff really wanted too.

That would leave the following needs to be filled with 2018 recruits. This is based purely on numbers:

QB - 1
DT - 6
DE - 2
OL - 5
LB - 2
CB - 4
S - 0
RB - 3
TE - 2
WR - 4
K - 2

Couple of things of note here:

1. It's going to be nearly impossible to find 6 DT's. We really need one or both of McIntosh and Norton to stick around, and we need Ford and Martin to pan out. We'll likely need to get at least 1 JUCO DT and bring in a grad transfer. Or, Bethel or DJ Johnson may need to move inside.

2. We currently have 7 Safeties on the roster (assuming Smith qualifies and 1 of Jackson or Redwine makes the move Safety). Typically, schools would only allot 6 scholarships to the Safety position, but given the importance of Safety in Diaz's defense, maybe our number is 8. That leaves us with 1 available spot because none of the 7 graduate. Obviously, we are going after more than 1 Safety. Our number is probably 3. Something has to give there. Do we load up and deal with the numbers through attrition?
 

Sebastianspipe

Freshman
Joined
Jun 16, 2012
Messages
841
Here's how:

We currently have 80 scholarship players on roster, so 5 available scholarships right now.

We currently have 11 Seniors and Red Shirt Seniors on roster, so 11 scholarships will open up through graduation.

There are 4 players who could declare early for the NFL draft (Willis, McIntosh, Norton, Walton).

There are 7 Red Shirt Juniors who will have their degrees, so we could choose not to renew their scholarships for a 5th year (Rosier, Jones, McCray, Smith, Mayes, Gray, Langham).

There are 3 underclassmen that we should encourage to transfer if they don't show signs of providing quality depth in 2017 (Fines, Mahoney, Henley).


Add that all up and we could get to 30 in the 2018 class if the staff really wanted too.

That would leave the following needs to be filled with 2018 recruits. This is based purely on numbers:

QB - 1
DT - 6
DE - 2
OL - 5
LB - 2
CB - 4
S - 0
RB - 3
TE - 2
WR - 4
K - 2

Couple of things of note here:

1. It's going to be nearly impossible to find 6 DT's. We really need one or both of McIntosh and Norton to stick around, and we need Ford and Martin to pan out. We'll likely need to get at least 1 JUCO DT and bring in a grad transfer. Or, Bethel or DJ Johnson may need to move inside.

2. We currently have 7 Safeties on the roster (assuming Smith qualifies and 1 of Jackson or Redwine makes the move Safety). Typically, schools would only allot 6 scholarships to the Safety position, but given the importance of Safety in Diaz's defense, maybe our number is 8. That leaves us with 1 available spot because none of the 7 graduate. Obviously, we are going after more than 1 Safety. Our number is probably 3. Something has to give there. Do we load up and deal with the numbers through attrition?
Your thoughts and intel on this are appreciated. I dont think we take 5 OL again, probably 2-3 and at Safety we already have Russell and Hall is a TAKE, so that number should jump to at least 2 maybe 3.
 

Oicu812

Sophomore
Joined
Jan 27, 2017
Messages
968
Pretty much....a safe bet, would be about 25 +/- depending on how the summer plays out. Attrition and whatever. That's not a bad start,.. For the talent in this class,.. Hoping things play out in our favor for a few more of the possible 30. Thanx for the info
 

Combo

Sophomore
Joined
May 14, 2016
Messages
1,486
Would be nice to have 30, but I'm guessing it will be more around 25.

DT is a huge need, but 6 would be overkill. 6 DL total is reasonable. Hopefully at least one DT that can contribute immediately. What's the latest on Glen Logan?
 

DerekDohrman

Senior
Joined
Dec 18, 2012
Messages
2,754
we signed 24(so far) for 2017, i have us with only 3 of the EE's counting towards 2016's class. so 21(so far). sounds like we'll bring in a few transfers, which would bump that number back up to 23 or 24. that also limits the class size for 2018 we can bring in, as you can only count EE's towards last year's class up until that class hits 25. after that, we're capped at 25/year

more than likely, class size will be around 26-27. maybe 28. 30 aint happening.
 

TheOriginalCane

All American
Joined
Dec 22, 2011
Messages
12,685
Here's how:

We currently have 80 scholarship players on roster, so 5 available scholarships right now.

We currently have 11 Seniors and Red Shirt Seniors on roster, so 11 scholarships will open up through graduation.

There are 4 players who could declare early for the NFL draft (Willis, McIntosh, Norton, Walton).

There are 7 Red Shirt Juniors who will have their degrees, so we could choose not to renew their scholarships for a 5th year (Rosier, Jones, McCray, Smith, Mayes, Gray, Langham).

There are 3 underclassmen that we should encourage to transfer if they don't show signs of providing quality depth in 2017 (Fines, Mahoney, Henley).


Add that all up and we could get to 30 in the 2018 class if the staff really wanted too.

That would leave the following needs to be filled with 2018 recruits. This is based purely on numbers:

QB - 1
DT - 6
DE - 2
OL - 5
LB - 2
CB - 4
S - 0
RB - 3
TE - 2
WR - 4
K - 2

Couple of things of note here:

1. It's going to be nearly impossible to find 6 DT's. We really need one or both of McIntosh and Norton to stick around, and we need Ford and Martin to pan out. We'll likely need to get at least 1 JUCO DT and bring in a grad transfer. Or, Bethel or DJ Johnson may need to move inside.

2. We currently have 7 Safeties on the roster (assuming Smith qualifies and 1 of Jackson or Redwine makes the move Safety). Typically, schools would only allot 6 scholarships to the Safety position, but given the importance of Safety in Diaz's defense, maybe our number is 8. That leaves us with 1 available spot because none of the 7 graduate. Obviously, we are going after more than 1 Safety. Our number is probably 3. Something has to give there. Do we load up and deal with the numbers through attrition?




I respect your analysis, but there are more rules on signing classes than just the 85 scholarship limit.

You are ignoring the "initial counter" rules, which are specifically designed to limit "oversigning".

There's no way we are getting to 30, probably ever in our lifetimes.

People are unaware of how hard it is going to be, getting back to a full 85, under the "initial counter" rules, particularly if we don't sign many "regular" transfer players.
 

Geo305

Staff Writer
Staff member
Joined
Dec 4, 2013
Messages
6,053
we signed 24(so far) for 2017, i have us with only 3 of the EE's counting towards 2016's class. so 21(so far). sounds like we'll bring in a few transfers, which would bump that number back up to 23 or 24. that also limits the class size for 2018 we can bring in, as you can only count EE's towards last year's class up until that class hits 25. after that, we're capped at 25/year

more than likely, class size will be around 26-27. maybe 28. 30 aint happening.

Pretty much my thoughts when I was discussing this with someone the other day.
 

TheOriginalCane

All American
Joined
Dec 22, 2011
Messages
12,685
we signed 24(so far) for 2017, i have us with only 3 of the EE's counting towards 2016's class. so 21(so far). sounds like we'll bring in a few transfers, which would bump that number back up to 23 or 24. that also limits the class size for 2018 we can bring in, as you can only count EE's towards last year's class up until that class hits 25. after that, we're capped at 25/year

more than likely, class size will be around 26-27. maybe 28. 30 aint happening.



Derek is correct.

Ideally, you sign 25 kids per year, you have 5 years to use 4 years of eligibility, that means you have 8 spots per class that can be burned by "kicking a kid off the team", "transferring", "early NFL entry", "no redshirt year", etc.

If you keep 17 kids from each class for 5 years, you have 85 on the roster.

Obviously, reality isn't as clean and organized, but that's a guideline. If you lose more than 8 kids per class (Golden), you're going to have numbers problems that are not easily fixable. And, yes, I know he had sanctions too. Even harder to fix.
 

Canes1968

Sophomore
Joined
Jan 27, 2017
Messages
2,580
Here's how:

We currently have 80 scholarship players on roster, so 5 available scholarships right now.

We currently have 11 Seniors and Red Shirt Seniors on roster, so 11 scholarships will open up through graduation.

There are 4 players who could declare early for the NFL draft (Willis, McIntosh, Norton, Walton).

There are 7 Red Shirt Juniors who will have their degrees, so we could choose not to renew their scholarships for a 5th year (Rosier, Jones, McCray, Smith, Mayes, Gray, Langham).

There are 3 underclassmen that we should encourage to transfer if they don't show signs of providing quality depth in 2017 (Fines, Mahoney, Henley).


Add that all up and we could get to 30 in the 2018 class if the staff really wanted too.

That would leave the following needs to be filled with 2018 recruits. This is based purely on numbers:

QB - 1
DT - 6
DE - 2
OL - 5
LB - 2
CB - 4
S - 0
RB - 3
TE - 2
WR - 4
K - 2

Couple of things of note here:

1. It's going to be nearly impossible to find 6 DT's. We really need one or both of McIntosh and Norton to stick around, and we need Ford and Martin to pan out. We'll likely need to get at least 1 JUCO DT and bring in a grad transfer. Or, Bethel or DJ Johnson may need to move inside.

2. We currently have 7 Safeties on the roster (assuming Smith qualifies and 1 of Jackson or Redwine makes the move Safety). Typically, schools would only allot 6 scholarships to the Safety position, but given the importance of Safety in Diaz's defense, maybe our number is 8. That leaves us with 1 available spot because none of the 7 graduate. Obviously, we are going after more than 1 Safety. Our number is probably 3. Something has to give there. Do we load up and deal with the numbers through attrition?




I respect your analysis, but there are more rules on signing classes than just the 85 scholarship limit.

You are ignoring the "initial counter" rules, which are specifically designed to limit "oversigning".

There's no way we are getting to 30, probably ever in our lifetimes.

People are unaware of how hard it is going to be, getting back to a full 85, under the "initial counter" rules, particularly if we don't sign many "regular" transfer players.

I'm well aware of the initial counter rules.
 

TheOriginalCane

All American
Joined
Dec 22, 2011
Messages
12,685
Here's how:

We currently have 80 scholarship players on roster, so 5 available scholarships right now.

We currently have 11 Seniors and Red Shirt Seniors on roster, so 11 scholarships will open up through graduation.

There are 4 players who could declare early for the NFL draft (Willis, McIntosh, Norton, Walton).

There are 7 Red Shirt Juniors who will have their degrees, so we could choose not to renew their scholarships for a 5th year (Rosier, Jones, McCray, Smith, Mayes, Gray, Langham).

There are 3 underclassmen that we should encourage to transfer if they don't show signs of providing quality depth in 2017 (Fines, Mahoney, Henley).


Add that all up and we could get to 30 in the 2018 class if the staff really wanted too.

That would leave the following needs to be filled with 2018 recruits. This is based purely on numbers:

QB - 1
DT - 6
DE - 2
OL - 5
LB - 2
CB - 4
S - 0
RB - 3
TE - 2
WR - 4
K - 2

Couple of things of note here:

1. It's going to be nearly impossible to find 6 DT's. We really need one or both of McIntosh and Norton to stick around, and we need Ford and Martin to pan out. We'll likely need to get at least 1 JUCO DT and bring in a grad transfer. Or, Bethel or DJ Johnson may need to move inside.

2. We currently have 7 Safeties on the roster (assuming Smith qualifies and 1 of Jackson or Redwine makes the move Safety). Typically, schools would only allot 6 scholarships to the Safety position, but given the importance of Safety in Diaz's defense, maybe our number is 8. That leaves us with 1 available spot because none of the 7 graduate. Obviously, we are going after more than 1 Safety. Our number is probably 3. Something has to give there. Do we load up and deal with the numbers through attrition?




I respect your analysis, but there are more rules on signing classes than just the 85 scholarship limit.

You are ignoring the "initial counter" rules, which are specifically designed to limit "oversigning".

There's no way we are getting to 30, probably ever in our lifetimes.

People are unaware of how hard it is going to be, getting back to a full 85, under the "initial counter" rules, particularly if we don't sign many "regular" transfer players.

I'm well aware of the initial counter rules.



Great, then you know we're not signing 30.
 

Canes1968

Sophomore
Joined
Jan 27, 2017
Messages
2,580
Here's how:

We currently have 80 scholarship players on roster, so 5 available scholarships right now.

We currently have 11 Seniors and Red Shirt Seniors on roster, so 11 scholarships will open up through graduation.

There are 4 players who could declare early for the NFL draft (Willis, McIntosh, Norton, Walton).

There are 7 Red Shirt Juniors who will have their degrees, so we could choose not to renew their scholarships for a 5th year (Rosier, Jones, McCray, Smith, Mayes, Gray, Langham).

There are 3 underclassmen that we should encourage to transfer if they don't show signs of providing quality depth in 2017 (Fines, Mahoney, Henley).


Add that all up and we could get to 30 in the 2018 class if the staff really wanted too.

That would leave the following needs to be filled with 2018 recruits. This is based purely on numbers:

QB - 1
DT - 6
DE - 2
OL - 5
LB - 2
CB - 4
S - 0
RB - 3
TE - 2
WR - 4
K - 2

Couple of things of note here:

1. It's going to be nearly impossible to find 6 DT's. We really need one or both of McIntosh and Norton to stick around, and we need Ford and Martin to pan out. We'll likely need to get at least 1 JUCO DT and bring in a grad transfer. Or, Bethel or DJ Johnson may need to move inside.

2. We currently have 7 Safeties on the roster (assuming Smith qualifies and 1 of Jackson or Redwine makes the move Safety). Typically, schools would only allot 6 scholarships to the Safety position, but given the importance of Safety in Diaz's defense, maybe our number is 8. That leaves us with 1 available spot because none of the 7 graduate. Obviously, we are going after more than 1 Safety. Our number is probably 3. Something has to give there. Do we load up and deal with the numbers through attrition?




I respect your analysis, but there are more rules on signing classes than just the 85 scholarship limit.

You are ignoring the "initial counter" rules, which are specifically designed to limit "oversigning".

There's no way we are getting to 30, probably ever in our lifetimes.

People are unaware of how hard it is going to be, getting back to a full 85, under the "initial counter" rules, particularly if we don't sign many "regular" transfer players.

I'm well aware of the initial counter rules.



Great, then you know we're not signing 30.

Technically, 30 is still a possibility. It's unlikely, but still a possibility.

The primary point in my OP isn't whether we will take 30. It's simply that we can make room for what we need. Numbers aside, it's unlikely we'd ever sign 30 simply because finding 30 Miami caliber players that want in is difficult.
 
Last edited:

Combo

Sophomore
Joined
May 14, 2016
Messages
1,486
Here's how:

We currently have 80 scholarship players on roster, so 5 available scholarships right now.

We currently have 11 Seniors and Red Shirt Seniors on roster, so 11 scholarships will open up through graduation.

There are 4 players who could declare early for the NFL draft (Willis, McIntosh, Norton, Walton).

There are 7 Red Shirt Juniors who will have their degrees, so we could choose not to renew their scholarships for a 5th year (Rosier, Jones, McCray, Smith, Mayes, Gray, Langham).

There are 3 underclassmen that we should encourage to transfer if they don't show signs of providing quality depth in 2017 (Fines, Mahoney, Henley).


Add that all up and we could get to 30 in the 2018 class if the staff really wanted too.

That would leave the following needs to be filled with 2018 recruits. This is based purely on numbers:

QB - 1
DT - 6
DE - 2
OL - 5
LB - 2
CB - 4
S - 0
RB - 3
TE - 2
WR - 4
K - 2

Couple of things of note here:

1. It's going to be nearly impossible to find 6 DT's. We really need one or both of McIntosh and Norton to stick around, and we need Ford and Martin to pan out. We'll likely need to get at least 1 JUCO DT and bring in a grad transfer. Or, Bethel or DJ Johnson may need to move inside.

2. We currently have 7 Safeties on the roster (assuming Smith qualifies and 1 of Jackson or Redwine makes the move Safety). Typically, schools would only allot 6 scholarships to the Safety position, but given the importance of Safety in Diaz's defense, maybe our number is 8. That leaves us with 1 available spot because none of the 7 graduate. Obviously, we are going after more than 1 Safety. Our number is probably 3. Something has to give there. Do we load up and deal with the numbers through attrition?




I respect your analysis, but there are more rules on signing classes than just the 85 scholarship limit.

You are ignoring the "initial counter" rules, which are specifically designed to limit "oversigning".

There's no way we are getting to 30, probably ever in our lifetimes.

People are unaware of how hard it is going to be, getting back to a full 85, under the "initial counter" rules, particularly if we don't sign many "regular" transfer players.

I'm well aware of the initial counter rules.



Great, then you know we're not signing 30.

Technically, 30 is still a possibility. It's unlikely, but still a possibility.

The primary point in my OP isn't whether we will take 30. It's simply that we can make room for what we need. Numbers aside, it's unlikely we'd ever sign 30 simply because finding 30 Miami caliber players that want in is difficult.

For argument's sake, 30 is possible. Yes, we could make room. However, around 25 is a more likely number.

And I do agree -- if there ever was a class where you'd like to "make room," the '18 class is it.
 

TheOriginalCane

All American
Joined
Dec 22, 2011
Messages
12,685
I respect your analysis, but there are more rules on signing classes than just the 85 scholarship limit.

You are ignoring the "initial counter" rules, which are specifically designed to limit "oversigning".

There's no way we are getting to 30, probably ever in our lifetimes.

People are unaware of how hard it is going to be, getting back to a full 85, under the "initial counter" rules, particularly if we don't sign many "regular" transfer players.

I'm well aware of the initial counter rules.



Great, then you know we're not signing 30.

Technically, 30 is still a possibility. It's unlikely, but still a possibility.

The primary point in my OP isn't whether we will take 30. It's simply that we can make room for what we need. Numbers aside, it's unlikely we'd ever sign 30 simply because finding 30 Miami caliber players that want in is difficult.

For argument's sake, 30 is possible. Yes, we could make room. However, around 25 is a more likely number.

And I do agree -- if there ever was a class where you'd like to "make room," the '18 class is it.



But you're going to dig your heels in, and claim that 30 is "technically" a possibility (when it is not). First, since your initial posting did not mention the initial counter rules, then "technically" our number could be 85. Second, after all, we could ALWAYS count 5 against the prior year, so "technically" 30 is always a "possibility". But, of course, that ignores what we have done historically.

But, hey, keep fighting with me about how 30 is "technically possible", when it's not. You built a position allocation (including 2 kickers!!!) based on 30, before someone pointed out the flaw in your logic. So your whole discussion on DTs and Safeties was based on an impossible number.

It's no big deal, but you keep digging your heels.
 
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