Vertical routes between the hashes

[LuCane]

While reviewing some of the UVA game (I was actually checking for how many defenders we were inviting into the box), I saw this image pop up again: everything outside the hashes.

In this case, 6 defenders covering 4 eligible receivers completely outside the hashes.

You can do the Math. It’s a restricted space. And, there is a world of space in the middle.

It’s something I also mentioned during the GT game - where we stayed outside the hashes a ton, until we successfully tried a couple vertical routes (I believe one to Young and one to Restrepo) *splitting their 2 deep Safeties.*

Thought we could discuss the different reasons we’re limiting the field more often than is beneficial and what, within the ‘infusion of Air Raid concepts,’ we can do differently. I know many will just say ‘it’s on TVD,’ but there has to be more to it.

Have at it…

 

[423Hurricane]

While reviewing some of the UVA game (I was actually checking for how many defenders we were inviting into the box), I saw this image pop up again: everything outside the hashes.

View attachment 263696

In this case, 6 defenders covering 4 eligible receivers completely outside the hashes.

You can do the Math. It’s a restricted space. And, there is a world of space in the middle.

It’s something I also mentioned during the GT game - where we stayed outside the hashes a ton, until we successfully tried a couple vertical routes (I believe one to Young and one to Restrepo) *splitting their 2 deep Safeties.*

Thought we could discuss the different reasons we’re limiting the field more often than is beneficial and what, within the ‘infusion of Air Raid concepts,’ we can do differently. I know many will just say ‘it’s on TVD,’ but there has to be more to it.

Have at it…

None of them broke inside? I don’t see an outlet.

 

[gacaneaddict]

I am not offensive genius, but IF it was me running the offense, I would spread teams out as wide as I could using 4 WR's Young, Restrepo, Smith, and George. I would have a RB lined up next to TVD in backfield. When I got a decent gain on first game, I would tempo tempo tempo.

I would incorporate RPO into a lot of the plays. I would angle the backs out of the backfield into passing plays as they can make a backer miss one on one.

Still dont understand why we dont also put Harrell in to run a go route at least twice per game. If he is covered it probably means that coverage is really stretched deep on that side, and you should have room for an underneath throw under the route.

 

[TriStarCane]

He may not be comfortable throwing in the middle of the field. He has thrown it right to robbers and hook zone droppers a few times already

 

[Justcanes]

Saw this at the game and was mentioning to a friend why are they seemingly avoiding the middle of the field. Also, where have the mesh concepts and RPO gone? Easy reads for a qb. Don't get me wrong 9 has been bad but they haven't necessarily made it easier for him, either.

 

[am1640]

While reviewing some of the UVA game (I was actually checking for how many defenders we were inviting into the box), I saw this image pop up again: everything outside the hashes.

View attachment 263696

In this case, 6 defenders covering 4 eligible receivers completely outside the hashes.

You can do the Math. It’s a restricted space. And, there is a world of space in the middle.

It’s something I also mentioned during the GT game - where we stayed outside the hashes a ton, until we successfully tried a couple vertical routes (I believe one to Young and one to Restrepo) *splitting their 2 deep Safeties.*

Thought we could discuss the different reasons we’re limiting the field more often than is beneficial and what, within the ‘infusion of Air Raid concepts,’ we can do differently. I know many will just say ‘it’s on TVD,’ but there has to be more to it.

Have at it…

maybe if our QB did a better job of spotting a Lber or S when they occupy that area we could go back to using that space again.

 

[DTP]

How great would it be to have a tight end against all the cover two we see now?

 

[LuCane]

None of them broke inside? I don’t see an outlet.

At the top of the screen, they ran some version of what looked like a switch concept. Brashard went down the left sideline and it resulted in an easy INT.

I believe Restrepo was going to run a deep post from the right hash that would break in about 20 yards downfield. I’d have to check again. Either way, he’s probably not who I’d have challenging that Safety with that route, but that’s another topic.

 

[LuCane]

maybe if our QB did a better job of spotting a Lber or S when they occupy that area we could go back to using that space again.

I know that’s gonna be a big topic here, but he’s previously made some of those throws. I guess it’s possible something has happened that he’s not seeing it at all now. I acknowledge the possibility. If we can’t more consistently use the space between the hashes, we’re cooked.

 

[LuCane]

Saw this at the game and was mentioning to a friend why are they seemingly avoiding the middle of the field. Also, where have the mesh concepts and RPO gone? Easy reads for a qb. Don't get me wrong 9 has been bad but they haven't necessarily made it easier for him, either.

Think we saw some RPO against UVA, but it was outside the hashes, IIRC. I’m also confused where the RPO has gone. I’d imagine TVD’s strengths and weaknesses would fit well with more RPO inside.

 

[E1k]

Its a mix of tvd not being comfortable attacking wnd his timing is late at times accross the mof and dawson being predictable with his 2x2 concepts. On this int and a restrepo drop on 3rd down I think tvd tried to zip it into the window because he know it will close fast with how they are out numbering us down field.

 

[AutoCANE]

Isn't one of the key, foundational concepts of the Air Raid "finding open grass"? I feel like I've heard the phrase "basketball on grass", etc etc. Granted I'm only looking at this one example right now

Clearly Dawson has his own take on how this offense should look. Because that amount of open grass in the middle of the field should ALWAYS be sought out

 

[E1k]

Think we saw some RPO against UVA, but it was outside the hashes, IIRC. I’m also confused where the RPO has gone. I’d imagine TVD’s strengths and weaknesses would fit well with more RPO inside.

I haven’t seen many rpos all year tbh, its been mostly just drop back passes

 

[Cane44]

jeeeezus, great pic of what's lacking.. IDC if it's our blocking TE... have him chip the DL, and setup shop right in the middle.. He can make an easy 12 & curl catch.... make those safeties respect that play over and over, and then you go long.... or a chip blocking RB also do a route right behind the LB's... I'm absolutely no X&O guy with only an outstanding Super Tecmo Bowl record, but c'monnn...

 

[Da Jumbo Mutombo]

Yikes at that play call against that defense.

So if you're TVD, where do you go there?

 

[AUcane]

Yikes at that play call against that defense.

So if you're TVD, where do you go there?

The answer to this question is the RB release. The RB is staying back to max protect but what he should do is be an outlet and win the 1v1 battle against the LB waiting in the middle. Assuming the others are outside the hashes, there really isn't another option.

That said, @LuCane, I didn't watch the game so a picture lacks context to me. Often I've seen this setup but then a WR will come across on a dig route and be in between the hashes. Roman did a student of the game clip where he talked about this - guys were coming across the middle (between the hashes) but TVD just doesn't look at them.

 

[Cribby]

maybe if our QB did a better job of spotting a Lber or S when they occupy that area we could go back to using that space again.

Or maybe use te’s or rb’s in the middle of the field ? Which is the hardest part of playing defense. now. Tvd sure had no issues finding Mallory and Arroyo wide open down the seams under Rhett. Or Rooster on wheels and angle routes. Guess what Thise have in common ? Between the hashes. The offense and concepts are beyond predictable now. They‘ve been used to death. **** even Gattis used the te’s and backs better last year lol.

Good job @LuCane , I’ve been *****ing about this for weeks now. Glad I’m not crazy.

 

[LuCane]

The answer to this question is the RB release. The RB is staying back to max protect but what he should do is be an outlet and win the 1v1 battle against the LB waiting in the middle. Assuming the others are outside the hashes, there really isn't another option.

That said, @LuCane, I didn't watch the game so a picture lacks context to me. Often I've seen this setup but then a WR will come across on a dig route and be in between the hashes. Roman did a student of the game clip where he talked about this - guys were coming across the middle (between the hashes) but TVD just doesn't look at them.

I answered it later in the thread. Restrepo’s presumed post was to come at around 20 yards. It means he’ll have run 20 yards on or just outside the hash, vertically, before we’d have anything inside. Couple things: (1) he’s not exactly a burner, so need someone there who’s going to climb quicker, (2) you’re still restricting a ton of intermediate space.

This is the INT throw that was intended for Smith. You can watch the play and the different looks.

 

[407cane]

very little separation against UVA by the wr group

nobody ever likes to give credit to the other team but they played great in coverage and we didnt' capitalize / call enough deep inn's or slant routes to keep the safeties lower

 

[Cribby]

The answer to this question is the RB release. The RB is staying back to max protect but what he should do is be an outlet and win the 1v1 battle against the LB waiting in the middle. Assuming the others are outside the hashes, there really isn't another option.

That said, @LuCane, I didn't watch the game so a picture lacks context to me. Often I've seen this setup but then a WR will come across on a dig route and be in between the hashes. Roman did a student of the game clip where he talked about this - guys were coming across the middle (between the hashes) but TVD just doesn't look at them.

Dc’s know most of the routes we run in the middle of the field are mostly digs / overs. As Tom Brady said “ the middle of the field is impossible to guard now. That’s why NE lived between the hashes. Db’s can’t intimidate you anymore so the middle of the field is **** near a layup. Then mix in the rpo. The rb’s and te’s are being used as poorly as I’ve ever seen. It’s atrocious. Rb’s stay in the flats. Te’s? I don‘t even know with that position has become here.