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Upon Further Review: Corey Hetherman

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As I said first this is incredible work. OP knows football. It would extremely interesting to me to see Heatherman thoughts on the write up. Not to discredit the work. But just an interesting conversation for the fans to see general thoughts, additions, and critiques for the fans to digest what they see on TV. I feel pretty good OP would recieve high praise on the write up by a non coach (or **** even an active coach). **** I'd love to see any former coach or player go live talking through the write up giving color to it

/before any of you even start I realize the likelihood of Heatherman doing it given Mario and the demands of the job itself is zero.
/and I'm also not talking scouting reports that affect gamesmanship before any of you mouthbreathers even start

Edit: / @Ashevegas Cane

/just had to @ my guy. Life long Canes fan in western Nortb Carolina that went through tremendous hardship in the hurricane. God bless mamaAshevegas. She is a saint
 
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caneforlifeforreal said:
/before any of you even start I realize the likelihood of Heatherman doing it given Mario and the demands of the job itself is zero.
/and I'm also not talking scouting reports that affect gamesmanship before any of you mouthbreathers even start
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This is when you know you’ve been posting here a while
 
@Lance Roffers

About what Peter Ariz asked you in the podcast...He asked what 2 position/body types are needed at Miami going forward for this defense to hit its ceiling. The first one you mentioned was a big safety/big nickel body type around 6' 210 who can insert into run fits plus be effective in underneath coverage until the pressure gets home.

My question to you is if you believe Cam Pruitt could play that role? Also is there anyone else currently on the roster? I would assume Damari Brown, Jacoby Thomas, Dylan Day and Cam Pruitt. What do you think? Thank you for the absolutely excellent post. You sir are a true football genius and we all appreciate you contributing to this board!
 
caneforlifeforreal said:
As I said first this is incredible work. OP knows football. It would extremely interesting to me to see Heatherman thoughts on the write up. Not to discredit the work. But just an interesting conversation for the fans to see general thoughts, additions, and critiques for the fans to digest what they see on TV. I feel pretty good OP would recieve high praise on the write up by a non coach (or **** even an active coach). **** I'd love to see any former coach or player go live talking through the write up giving color to it

/before any of you even start I realize the likelihood of Heatherman doing it given Mario and the demands of the job itself is zero.
/and I'm also not talking scouting reports that affect gamesmanship before any of you mouthbreathers even start
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When Uncle Slappy was Head Corch at UTSA, his DC would give lunch and learns to fans about how he ran the defense, setups, philosophies, etc.

Very cool to attend and always enjoyable.

Packed house standing room only.

How awesome would that be here at Miyahmah!?
 
FrancisSawyer said:
@Lance Roffers

About what Peter Ariz asked you in the podcast...He asked what 2 position/body types are needed at Miami going forward for this defense to hit its ceiling. The first one you mentioned was a big safety/big nickel body type around 6' 210 who can insert into run fits plus be effective in underneath coverage until the pressure gets home.

My question to you is if you believe Cam Pruitt could play that role? Also is there anyone else currently on the roster? I would assume Damari Brown, Jacoby Thomas, Dylan Day and Cam Pruitt. What do you think? Thank you for the absolutely excellent post. You sir are a true football genius and we all appreciate you contributing to this board!
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Yup. Wish I had thought to mention him as a possibility next year. Expect it to be Thomas this year.
 
Empirical Cane said:
When Uncle Slappy was Head Corch at UTSA, his DC would give lunch and learns to fans about how he ran the defense, setups, philosophies, etc.

Very cool to attend and always enjoyable.

Packed house standing room only.

How awesome would that be here at Miyahmah!?
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Different programs. Different demands. Certainly Different pressures and worries

But **** that would be fing awesome. I mean fing awesome

I feel like that's what the weekly Coaches show was intended to be. Instead bc of disguise of gameplan and fear of saying the wrong thing, it turned into coach speak and proud of this guy and that guy. On to Boston College
 
caneforlifeforreal said:
Different programs. Different demands. Certainly Different pressures and worries

But **** that would be fing awesome. I mean fing awesome

I feel like that's what the weekly Coaches show was intended to be. Instead bc of disguise of gameplan and fear of saying the wrong thing, it turned into coach speak and proud of this guy and that guy. On to Boston College
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Nothing worse than those coaches shows with their say nothing approach.

They aren't giving anything to their opponents. The opponent in big-time football has had five analysts tearing apart every 3rd down snap, every pressure package, every run play, every bubble, every RPO, everything. Weeks ahead of time.

That breakdown is ready and given to the coaches on the field the week of the game. Then the opposing coaches actually do the install and decide on the call sheet, and game plan based on all that detailed info.

Does any coach really believe by going on a coaches show and "we are looking to get that lag across the face of the C on zone run plays and been then chase that puller and cause traffic so they can't bend the arc in gap and counter runs" tells the opponent something they haven't seen or don't know?

Obviously he's not going on the show and saying "next week we really plan to attack #___ because he turns his shoulders left for zone and stays square for man."

Coaches have forever thought their profession is landing a man on the moon, when really it's just breaking patterns and recognizing patterns on the other team.
 
Thank you for the write up. Took me a while to go through it all and @DMoney and @Lance Roffers got into it in the podcast today supporting exactly what I was talking about in the discussion of who should start at DE and why it should be Lightfoot. The scheme often aligns a wiry DE to the grass and it’s by design, as D$ prefaced the conversation. Teams combat it by aligning the pass strength to the boundary and running it to the grass. It used to be the opposite in field and boundary defense, the fundamental principle that dictates how you line up, when you would have your nickel always aligned to the field and then they would set their pass strength to the boundary and take advantage of you in the passing game that way. This new defense combats that disadvantage as now. you always have a nickel on the pass strength and a DE on the run strength, but that DE/jack has to be able to cover grass. The possible disadvantage is in the run game instead of in the air.

Here is the reason and what I said and a quote from Lance. @252cane @Calinative

“Teams run lots of Mint or Tite fronts against the Power Spread offenses in today’s college game to combat the IZ run game and squeeze runners into the ILB, who is kept free in this scheme. Remember, the Jack will be opposite the nickel, who will go to the passing strength to allow the defense to line up quicker. This is an innovation that Kirby Smart started with his Mint fronts after Spread teams beat him up when his rule required the nickel to go to field side of formation and tempo caught them trying to line up often times.”

JayCane20 said:
That’s fine. Just telling you, teams are going to scheme them to the field and they’ll get smoked with open grass.
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JayCane20 said:
Still a different scheme that asks different things from their DE.

I’m not even saying it’s bad on an every down basis. We will be fine 95% of the time. But we’re going to allow ourselves to be more susceptible to being burned to the perimeter. And it only takes 1 play per game. The current personnel will get schemed up and opponents will put us where they want us and use it when they need it.

Pickett/Lightfoot need to play more to offset it.

I will cut some film to show what I’m talking about. It goes back to playing field and boundary (nickel always to the field and Jack to the boundary) vs playing matchup where the nickel/star lines up to the strength and jack lines up opposite. Hetherman is more simplistic with the automatic alignment to the strength. Teams set the formation strength to the boundary and attack the field with tossed, sweeps, options, etc. and leave the DE unblocked on an island and force them to play it to the sideline. Slow guys get beat every time.
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Glad I didn’t have to cut the film.

Something not talked about that is also a possibility and I’ve advocated for prior to Hetherman is Bain/Mesidor playing the 4i on each side of this alignment and having a lighter wiry frame (like Lightfoot) as the Jack. Get all 3 on the field at the same time. That seems perfect to me.
 
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JayCane20 said:
Thank you for the write up. Took me a while to go through it all and @DMoney and @Lance Roffers got into it in the podcast today supporting exactly what I was talking about in the discussion of who should start at DE and why it should be Lightfoot. The scheme often aligns a wiry DE to the grass and it’s by design, as D$ prefaced the conversation. Teams combat it by aligning the pass strength to the boundary and running it to the grass. It used to be the opposite in field and boundary defense, the fundamental principle that dictates how you line up, when you would have your nickel always aligned to the field and then they would set their pass strength to the boundary and take advantage of you in the passing game that way. This new defense combats that disadvantage as now. you always have a nickel on the pass strength and a DE on the run strength, but that DE/jack has to be able to cover grass. The possible disadvantage is in the run game instead of in the air.

Here is the reason and what I said and a quote from Lance. @252cane @Calinative

“Teams run lots of Mint or Tite fronts against the Power Spread offenses in today’s college game to combat the IZ run game and squeeze runners into the ILB, who is kept free in this scheme. Remember, the Jack will be opposite the nickel, who will go to the passing strength to allow the defense to line up quicker. This is an innovation that Kirby Smart started with his Mint fronts after Spread teams beat him up when his rule required the nickel to go to field side of formation and tempo caught them trying to line up often times.”





Glad I didn’t have to cut the film.

Something not talked about that is also a possibility and I’ve advocated for prior to Hetherman is Bain/Mesidor playing the 4i on each side of this alignment and having a lighter wiry frame (like Lightfoot) as the Jack. Get all 3 on the field at the same time. That seems perfect to me.
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i mean I have always understood the point and why it would be great for us to have Lightfoot step up and earn that. But I still completely disagree that we would be screwed with both Bain and Mesidor on the field together. I simply disagree that Bain can’t do it all for us.
 
JayCane20 said:
Thank you for the write up. Took me a while to go through it all and @DMoney and @Lance Roffers got into it in the podcast today supporting exactly what I was talking about in the discussion of who should start at DE and why it should be Lightfoot. The scheme often aligns a wiry DE to the grass and it’s by design, as D$ prefaced the conversation. Teams combat it by aligning the pass strength to the boundary and running it to the grass. It used to be the opposite in field and boundary defense, the fundamental principle that dictates how you line up, when you would have your nickel always aligned to the field and then they would set their pass strength to the boundary and take advantage of you in the passing game that way. This new defense combats that disadvantage as now. you always have a nickel on the pass strength and a DE on the run strength, but that DE/jack has to be able to cover grass. The possible disadvantage is in the run game instead of in the air.

Here is the reason and what I said and a quote from Lance. @252cane @Calinative

“Teams run lots of Mint or Tite fronts against the Power Spread offenses in today’s college game to combat the IZ run game and squeeze runners into the ILB, who is kept free in this scheme. Remember, the Jack will be opposite the nickel, who will go to the passing strength to allow the defense to line up quicker. This is an innovation that Kirby Smart started with his Mint fronts after Spread teams beat him up when his rule required the nickel to go to field side of formation and tempo caught them trying to line up often times.”





Glad I didn’t have to cut the film.

Something not talked about that is also a possibility and I’ve advocated for prior to Hetherman is Bain/Mesidor playing the 4i on each side of this alignment and having a lighter wiry frame (like Lightfoot) as the Jack. Get all 3 on the field at the same time. That seems perfect to me.
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I understood the point but my thing is look Bain doesn’t fit the jack position but I think hetherman knows that. At Minnesota last year his starter at jack was a guy by the name danny strigow. Strigow was 6’4 255 and ran a 4.84. That’s not considered to be a great athlete. So I think hetherman knows that will know how to use Bain at the position.

Also I think Bain and Messidor could bouth play the 4i spot together at times depending on the matchups but I wouldn’t want to give up that much size consistently
 
JayCane20 said:
Thank you for the write up. Took me a while to go through it all and @DMoney and @Lance Roffers got into it in the podcast today supporting exactly what I was talking about in the discussion of who should start at DE and why it should be Lightfoot. The scheme often aligns a wiry DE to the grass and it’s by design, as D$ prefaced the conversation. Teams combat it by aligning the pass strength to the boundary and running it to the grass. It used to be the opposite in field and boundary defense, the fundamental principle that dictates how you line up, when you would have your nickel always aligned to the field and then they would set their pass strength to the boundary and take advantage of you in the passing game that way. This new defense combats that disadvantage as now. you always have a nickel on the pass strength and a DE on the run strength, but that DE/jack has to be able to cover grass. The possible disadvantage is in the run game instead of in the air.

Here is the reason and what I said and a quote from Lance. @252cane @Calinative

“Teams run lots of Mint or Tite fronts against the Power Spread offenses in today’s college game to combat the IZ run game and squeeze runners into the ILB, who is kept free in this scheme. Remember, the Jack will be opposite the nickel, who will go to the passing strength to allow the defense to line up quicker. This is an innovation that Kirby Smart started with his Mint fronts after Spread teams beat him up when his rule required the nickel to go to field side of formation and tempo caught them trying to line up often times.”





Glad I didn’t have to cut the film.

Something not talked about that is also a possibility and I’ve advocated for prior to Hetherman is Bain/Mesidor playing the 4i on each side of this alignment and having a lighter wiry frame (like Lightfoot) as the Jack. Get all 3 on the field at the same time. That seems perfect to me.
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Your last paragraph is exactly right as I see it. Bain and Mesidor as the 4i's. Lightfoot as the Jack.

Hetherman isn't asking these guys to two-gap, so they're going to get to rush the passer. Just as often as the 4i to opposite side of RB will fold into B-gap rather than Roscoe outside and he gets replaced by a Creeper in contain. Other times they will create traffic in the G or H-back puller.

Point being, Hetherman is still allowing his DE's who align from 3/4i/5/7 tech in this defense to get into gaps, beat their man, and rush the passer.

I'm a big fan of what I saw Hetherman do and so are some real film guys who coach and talk football.

That Flex defender needs to be able to run and Lightfoot can really run. Malik Bryant is another player who can help in that role. I like more length because the further you get from the ball in the box area, the more length matters. Inside it's happening so fast neither side is really keeping the other off of them with length, but outside that's a true thing and defenders need to keep their outside arm clean. One of the best ways to do that is with length.
 
Lance Roffers said:
Your last paragraph is exactly right as I see it. Bain and Mesidor as the 4i's. Lightfoot as the Jack.

Hetherman isn't asking these guys to two-gap, so they're going to get to rush the passer. Just as often as the 4i to opposite side of RB will fold into B-gap rather than Roscoe outside and he gets replaced by a Creeper in contain. Other times they will create traffic in the G or H-back puller.

Point being, Hetherman is still allowing his DE's who align from 3/4i/5/7 tech in this defense to get into gaps, beat their man, and rush the passer.

I'm a big fan of what I saw Hetherman do and so are some real film guys who coach and talk football.

That Flex defender needs to be able to run and Lightfoot can really run. Malik Bryant is another player who can help in that role. I like more length because the further you get from the ball in the box area, the more length matters. Inside it's happening so fast neither side is really keeping the other off of them with length, but outside that's a true thing and defenders need to keep their outside arm clean. One of the best ways to do that is with length.
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@Lance Roffers assuming Hetherman sets the scheme this way, who are the other personnel you'd like to see in the front 7 or total 11 to round out the defense? Are you running with only 1 DT or are you taking out an LB?
 
Thank you so much, seriously! This is a huge reason why this is by far the best Canes site. As someone who could never play football myself, I’m always trying to learn more and posts like these are truly helpful. Much appreciated!
 
Lance Roffers said:
Your last paragraph is exactly right as I see it. Bain and Mesidor as the 4i's. Lightfoot as the Jack.

Hetherman isn't asking these guys to two-gap, so they're going to get to rush the passer. Just as often as the 4i to opposite side of RB will fold into B-gap rather than Roscoe outside and he gets replaced by a Creeper in contain. Other times they will create traffic in the G or H-back puller.

Point being, Hetherman is still allowing his DE's who align from 3/4i/5/7 tech in this defense to get into gaps, beat their man, and rush the passer.

I'm a big fan of what I saw Hetherman do and so are some real film guys who coach and talk football.

That Flex defender needs to be able to run and Lightfoot can really run. Malik Bryant is another player who can help in that role. I like more length because the further you get from the ball in the box area, the more length matters. Inside it's happening so fast neither side is really keeping the other off of them with length, but outside that's a true thing and defenders need to keep their outside arm clean. One of the best ways to do that is with length.
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Don’t think that’s how it will be especially early on because guys like Lightfoot haven’t shown they are ready to start. On top of that like I said in another post the guy hetherman had at the jack spot last year at minn wasn’t athletic.

Also he went big on the d-line at minn he went with the guys being 285(DE), 310(NT), 290(DT). We would be giving up too much size with 2 guys that are 270 and a 305 lb NT
 
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Honestly most likely it will just entirely be matchup based whether we predominantly are going with like Mesidor and Bain at 4i, or Only one of them on field with like Lightfoot at Jack, or Bain at Jack, etc.

Like I can absolutely see Us playing ND, and Louisville who should both have two of the superior rush attacks we play all season even including playoffs. However even with that Louisville is more of big play with faster RBs and will have a far more threatening passing attack due to scheme and just QB/WR talent+exp. ND is going to have a frosh QB making his first start and much more likely to play bully ball though obviously Love is a big play guy too.

So I could see Bain and Mesidor being the EDGEs against ND with 2 pure DTs in game, then both being 4i with Lightfoot at Jack against Louisville. Because I bet we'd be fine being a little undersized on interior against Louisville, but against ND that seems a recipe for disaster. and then maybe many other games it's just them rotating at 4i with guys like Lightfoot at Jack...
 
Calinative said:
Honestly most likely it will just entirely be matchup based whether we predominantly are going with like Mesidor and Bain at 4i, or Only one of them on field with like Lightfoot at Jack, or Bain at Jack, etc.

Like I can absolutely see Us playing ND, and Louisville who should both have two of the superior rush attacks we play all season even including playoffs. However even with that Louisville is more of big play with faster RBs and will have a far more threatening passing attack due to scheme and just QB/WR talent+exp. ND is going to have a frosh QB making his first start and much more likely to play bully ball though obviously Love is a big play guy too.

So I could see Bain and Mesidor being the EDGEs against ND with 2 pure DTs in game, then both being 4i with Lightfoot at Jack against Louisville. Because I bet we'd be fine being a little undersized on interior against Louisville, but against ND that seems a recipe for disaster. and then maybe many other games it's just them rotating at 4i with guys like Lightfoot at Jack...
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That’s what I was saying that I think Bain and Messidor both at 4i would likely depend on the matchup because both guys have dropped weight and are around 270 now. That’s very small up front to have them full time to go along with a small jack
 
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