UM's Plan To Reopen

You just revealed yourself that this is indeed political. BTW, the Coronavirsus Task Force stood up on January 30, 2020. Of course, the left was criticizing the administration because Mike Pence, a former Governor of Indiana, was appointed to lead it. The Feds started working on a vaccine in mid-January. CDC was sending out guidance to states by mid-February. They were working with the affected states in February. They were sending guidance to airports by the third week in February. The Feds knew they had deficient test kits and an inadequate system by late January. Again, was the country prepared? No. But like any natural or man-made disaster you react and learn.

Quite frankly the only people in Government I blame are Cuomo for sending COVID-19 positive individuals back to senior homes without any protocols in place. His administration already knew what was happening on the ground in Italy and Washington state. Beds were not the issue. In the end, New York used about a third of the beds at Javits and less than 20 percent on the Comfort. What Wolfe and that POS Levine did in Pennsylvania was even worse Two-thirds of all deaths in PA are in senior assisted living. Levine pulled her mother from a facility but sent others to die. I don't agree with many Govenors decisions to stay closed but that's their call not mine. They know their situation on the ground and will have to live with their decisions.

BTW, I owned the Air Force National Emergency Preparedness teams while I was in the Pentagon who worked directly with FEMA so I am very up on how it works. Plus, I was part of the team that helped set up DHS. Government is like a battleship. It takes a lot to move it but once you move it in the right direction you have the full power and weight behind it.

Thank you for your service.
 
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Can you post source? I have been having a hard time finding a good data source for daily hospitalizations and daily deaths. Hopkins is great for daily cases, but I believe that stat is now meaningless now that the virus has been here for this long. What matters now is not how many people have a sore throat, but how much hospital utilization is going on and how many truly negative outcomes are occurring.
 



Why do you think a "deaths by date of death" chart has so much meaning, when there has been political pressure to report the cause of death differently?

You don't think that we might be having "fewer deaths" reported because the doctors are being pushed not to list "Covid-19" as the cause of death?

It's just funny to see people rip statistics and science when they don't agree with their opinions, while citing statistics and science when they seem to reinforce their opinions.
 
Please stop lying. You are the one making this political.

There is criticism of Pence leading the task force based on his failures (when he was Indiana governor) to effectively handle the HIV epidemic in Indiana. I understand why people on the right want to blame any analysis/criticism of Pence on "politics", but it's actually based on past (poor) performance in similar circumstances.

"The feds started working on a vaccine in mid-January". Uh, nope. In fact, there has been work on a coronavirus vaccine for far longer. A dean at the Baylor Med School (Dr. Peter Hotez) tried to get funding for coronavirus vaccine clinical trials 2 years ago (2018), but was rejected by Congress. But, hey, I won't make this "political" and point out which party controlled Congressional funding at that time. Fortunately, Tito's Vodka just donated $1M to fund the clinical trials.

And please stop BS-ing about what a "rapid response" we have had. Sure, Covid-19 may be "novel", but we have been fighting diseases and pandemics for decades. Cut the crap about "you react and learn". Every time a new flu or virus crops up, we don't have to start from scratch.

Why are you lionizing the efforts of the CDC? The only reason that anyone knew anything and/or did anything within the CDC was because of the information circulated by WHO in January. And the only reason we had defective testing kits is because the CDC decided to develop their own testing kit rather than using the blueprint provided by WHO.

Unlike you, I can see past partisanship. OF COURSE, the "only person" you are blaming is Cuomo. Unlike you, I can praise the great job done by both Republican governors (DeWine) and Democrat governors (Cuomo). And, believe me, I haven't really like Cuomo up until now, so don't try to pretend that I'm saying something nice about him because of his party affiliation, because prior to 2020, I thought Cuomo was a real ****head.

Look, I can respect your past work in the Air Force, but you have to be honest about the differences in response when you have a command-and-control structure (such as in the military) versus any other situation involving civilians.

This isn't that complicated. There was plenty of intel on what was happening, and what could happen, in January (as you tacitly seem to agree). The differential is how that information was USED (or not used), and what the Executive Branch should have done to plan and coordinate a response.

Stop blaming Cuomo for what happened at a senior home, that has no bearing on the other 49 states. Cuomo is no favorite of mine, he's made some mistakes and he's done a pretty good (overall) job in spite of those mistakes. Stop acting like the federal government bears no blame.

Are you a staffer for Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez? LoL, I wanted to see if you would go there and you did. Cuomo made some mistakes? So you downplay what happened to senior assisted living folks in New York.

We agree to vehemently disagree with each other. I am not changing your mind and you are definitely not changing mine.

But I do respect your point of view and you had some good points.
 
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Why do you think a "deaths by date of death" chart has so much meaning, when there has been political pressure to report the cause of death differently?

You don't think that we might be having "fewer deaths" reported because the doctors are being pushed not to list "Covid-19" as the cause of death?

It's just funny to see people rip statistics and science when they don't agree with their opinions, while citing statistics and science when they seem to reinforce their opinions.

Have a nice afternoon, brother. Attribution: CDC. The most recent week reported on this chart was the week ending May 2.
1589565205142.png
 
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Why do you think a "deaths by date of death" chart has so much meaning, when there has been political pressure to report the cause of death differently?

You don't think that we might be having "fewer deaths" reported because the doctors are being pushed not to list "Covid-19" as the cause of death?

It's just funny to see people rip statistics and science when they don't agree with their opinions, while citing statistics and science when they seem to reinforce their opinions.
Is there is evidence to suggest this? Isn't there evidence that suggests the exact opposite in fact?
 
I've never cited anyone in the "defense department". The NSA. The intelligence community. Which, until recently, had a group devoted to the impact of pandemics on national security. This isn't just about one person with a medical degree. Pandemics impact us in more ways that just medical.

And even if you want remain focused on Fauci, and harp on him "failing" this time, he has advised multiple presidents previously and has not "failed" before. Again, maybe consider HOW his closed-door advice has been handled. And maybe consider what he has been asked to say in public statements. Whenever he is interviewed, and an interviewer asks him specific questions, he is much more forthcoming that he has been when Trump is standing right behind him.

Look, we've seen this template before, how Trump "builds up" and then "disappears" his "****e shields". Five minutes before The Apprentice first aired, you had never heard of George and Carolyn. Then, when you turned on the show, oh, these were two of the greatest businesspeople you had never heard of (at least according to Trump). And then, when they weren't needed anymore, Trump cut ties with them, they've never been heard/seen since, and they don't even work for Trump anymore. Carolyn was fired because her new-found celebrity was beginning to match Trump's.

Think about it this way. Fauci has served every US President since Reagan. That means both Republican administrations and Democrat administrations have trusted his counsel enough to keep utilizing him. But before this, almost nobody knew who he was. No other President put Fauci in front of the public every single day. But that's what Trump does, he puts people in front of him as "****e shields", and then he can scapegoat them when things go wrong. It's his modus operandi.

Every President has subject matter experts. But a complex problem will involve multiple SMEs from different specialties. For Covid-19, you need to hear from doctors, you need to hear from economists, you need to hear from diplomats, you need to hear from those who work in intelligence, and you need to hear from those who specialize in commerce/industry.

There shouldn't be "one person", not just one "subject matter expert", who everyone should be listening to. It's nice to have someone with Fauci's experience, but you need multiple voices, multiple perspectives, and open/honest discussion that is unconcerned about whether the President might then fire them for speaking frankly.

And the NIH/CDC are just the subject matter experts who form the beginning of the debate. Once they have provided the medical information, it is up to elected and appointed GOVERNMENT officials to EXECUTE (they are the executive branch). The NIH or the CDC can't do anything on their own. If the NIH/CDC says that we need tens of millions of Coronvirus testing kits, they cannot manufacture those kits on their own. The NIH/CDC is then reliant upon the federal government working on that suggested solution.

In the US, those testing kits are manufactured by private industry. Which means that it was incumbent upon HHS and others to then place the orders for testing kits, in order to get the ball rolling. NIH/CDC can't do that on their own, so stop blaming "unelected government bureaucrats" in those agencies for something that should have been done by elected/appointed officials within the Executive branch.

The four people that are MOST responsible for the delays in the Coronavirus response are Redfield (CDC), Hahn (FDA), Azar (HHS), and Trump. The NIH is not really the problem here, and I'm not completely absolving the CDC (particularly with the first defective testing kits from January-February).

But stop blaming nameless/faceless "bureaucrats". There are real people, with names and faces, who had far greater power and a much larger role in ******** things up. It wasn't some drone deep inside the CDC who failed to order millions of testing kits. And it wasn't Fauci either.

I appreciate your response. And when I get a few minutes to read it, today or tomorrow I will.
 
Are you a staffer for Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez? LoL, I wanted to see if you would go there and you did. Cuomo made some mistakes? So you downplay what happened to senior assisted living folks in New York.

We agree to vehemently disagree with each other. I am not changing your mind and you are definitely not changing mine.


AOC? That's where you go with your partisanship?

She was elected in November 2018. Pence ran for VP in 2016, and there were plenty of news reports at that time. I have a long memory, I don't need a first-term representative to provide media reporting that was widely available 4 years ago.

And, no, I'm not "downplaying" what happened to senior assisted living folks in NY. I'm actually acknowledging that Cuomo made a mistake. I don't blindly support politicians simply because they are of a particular party. I am saying that most of what Cuomo has done during this pandemic has been better than that one *****-up. I also don't overlook the fact that so many...people of a particular ideology...have been telling us that because the elderly are at the greatest risk, we should be tolerant of the "casualties" that occur among the elderly. So, I prefer context and balance.
As I mentioned, I never even liked Cuomo before 2020 (and let's not forget, Cuomo wasn't even considered to be one of the leading Democrats, even when the Democrats had, like, three dozen presidential candidates, he was not one of them), but I'm also not going to sit here and act like the mistake he made with a nursing home should be the only thing that I ever take into consideration (especially when the Republican Lt. Governor of Texas is, literally, volunteering the elderly to take their chances with the virus).

I'm not talking about "vehement disagreement" or "trying to change your mind". When you go into the voting booth, you are entitled to vote however you choose.

But if you want to cite a bunch of facts and statistics and talk about your experience in dealing with problems such as these (not to mention inaccurately blaming me for basing my positions on partisanship, when I don't even support every Democrat or condemn every Republican), you should try to be more a bit more consistent and honest.

It is ridiculous to "not blame" anyone in an elected/appointed role within the Federal executive branch, while you to apesh!te on Cuomo for making a mistake with a nursing home (as if that mistake led to our national crisis).

That's like saying that nobody on the bridge of the Titanic should be blamed, but then there was that one son-of-a-***** down in the engine room who put more coal in the furnace when he should have been shutting off the engines.

Come on, man, I'm not asking you to change parties and I'm not asking you to change your vote. It would just be nice to have a bit of non-partisan honesty once in a while.
 
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Can you post source? I have been having a hard time finding a good data source for daily hospitalizations and daily deaths. Hopkins is great for daily cases, but I believe that stat is now meaningless now that the virus has been here for this long. What matters now is not how many people have a sore throat, but how much hospital utilization is going on and how many truly negative outcomes are occurring.
Florida Covid-19 Dashboard.
 
Is there is evidence to suggest this? Isn't there evidence that suggests the exact opposite in fact?


I didn't say that you absolutely had to conclude one way or the other, and there is absolutely evidence to support what I am saying.

I just find it amusing that when the death tolls were "rising", "certain people" complained about the statistics and what they meant. And now that death tolls are "falling", those people are suddenly in love with the more favorable statistics.

Amusing.


 
Why do you think a "deaths by date of death" chart has so much meaning, when there has been political pressure to report the cause of death differently?

You don't think that we might be having "fewer deaths" reported because the doctors are being pushed not to list "Covid-19" as the cause of death?

It's just funny to see people rip statistics and science when they don't agree with their opinions, while citing statistics and science when they seem to reinforce their opinions.
Bro, you've been spewing your crap all over this thread. I posted something from the Fl. Health site. That little screen shot triggered you so bad? All the facts aren't one sided. Tighten up, Stalin....
 
I appreciate your response. And when I get a few minutes to read it, today or tomorrow I will.


I'm sure that we all have a lot of other things to do.

Relax, I'm just giving you a hard time.

Sometimes these responses aren't neatly summarized in 50 words or less. I wish it was that easy.
 
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AOC? That's where you go with your partisanship?

She was elected in November 2018. Pence ran for VP in 2016, and there were plenty of news reports at that time. I have a long memory, I don't need a first-term representative to provide media reporting that was widely available 4 years ago.

And, no, I'm not "downplaying" what happened to senior assisted living folks in NY. I'm actually acknowledging that Cuomo made a mistake. I don't blindly support politicians simply because they are of a particular party. I am saying that most of what Cuomo has done during this pandemic has been better than that one *****-up. I also don't overlook the fact that so many...people of a particular ideology...have been telling us that because the elderly are at the greatest risk, we should be tolerant of the "casualties" that occur among the elderly. So, I prefer context and balance.
As I mentioned, I never even liked Cuomo before 2020 (and let's not forget, Cuomo wasn't even considered to be one of the leading Democrats, even when the Democrats had, like, three dozen presidential candidates, he was not one of them), but I'm also not going to sit here and act like the mistake he made with a nursing home should be the only thing that I ever take into consideration (especially when the Republican Lt. Governor of Texas is, literally, volunteering the elderly to take their chances with the virus).

I'm not talking about "vehement disagreement" or "trying to change your mind". When you go into the voting booth, you are entitled to vote however you choose.

But if you want to cite a bunch of facts and statistics and talk about your experience in dealing with problems such as these (not to mention inaccurately blaming me for basing my positions on partisanship, when I don't even support every Democrat or condemn every Republican), you should try to be more a bit more consistent and honest.

It is ridiculous to "not blame" anyone in an elected/appointed role within the Federal executive branch, while you to apesh!te on Cuomo for making a mistake with a nursing home (as if that mistake led to our national crisis).

That's like saying that nobody on the bridge of the Titanic should be blamed, but then there was that one son-of-a-***** down in the engine room who put more coal in the furnace when he should have been shutting off the engines.

Come on, man, I'm not asking you to change parties and I'm not asking you to change your vote. It would just be nice to have a bit of non-partisan honesty once in a while.
Bro, listening to your whining over and over is equal to being cooped up with the old lady for 2 months...
 
Bro, you've been spewing your crap all over this thread. I posted something from the Fl. Health site. That little screen shot triggered you so bad? All the facts aren't one sided. Tighten up, Stalin....


Put your response and my response side by side. Clearly, you are the one who is "triggered".

I am just finding the humor in this newfound love of "statistics" by the same people who were trashing science and statistics two months ago.

"Stalin". What a silly attempt at name-calling.
 
Put your response and my response side by side. Clearly, you are the one who is "triggered".

I am just finding the humor in this newfound love of "statistics" by the same people who were trashing science and statistics two months ago.

"Stalin". What a silly attempt at name-calling.
Appreciate the attempt......
 
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Here's a crazy thought. Maybe nobody took the concept of this type of pandemic as a serious possibility that could happen in our lifetimes. Maybe because we knew so little about how it spreads and how contagious it was we weren't prepared because we didn't know. Maybe China and the WHO failed to give us sufficient notice for whatever reason, exacerbating the problem.

Maybe the politicians aren't to blame?
 
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