UFC 239

I know most want Jon Jones to move up to Heavyweight, but I don't think that would be a good idea for him.

He doesn't have the power he used to have early in his career as a striker anymore & while he has a very tough chin & would be much faster than any HW he'd face, I'm not so sure he could deal with those early exchanges vs HW a power puncher. He would have to evade & gas out his opponents at HW & hope to catch them in the later rounds.

The most intriguing fight for Jon next, is 205 phenom Johnny Walker, I think Jones could beat him if he gets past that first round fury from Walker, but it would still be an interesting fight.
 
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Ill tell you what...Santos earned a lot of respect tonight. He is a warrior. Jones thought he was cruising through that one and I don't know if he knew how close that fight was throughout. In his head, Jones thought he won that fight 4-1, but Santos came closer to beating him than anyone in his career. That very close 2nd Round was the key round and a lot of other judges would have given that one to Santos. That 5th Round was a deciding round for one of the judges.

Great card, btw.

Absolutely masterful set up by Nunes before she blew her head off. That Masvidal KO gonna be on highlight reels forever. Very curious to see how Askren comes back from that. A KO like that changes a man.
 
I know most want Jon Jones to move up to Heavyweight, but I don't think that would be a good idea for him.

He doesn't have the power he used to have early in his career as a striker anymore & while he has a very tough chin & would be much faster than any HW he'd face, I'm not so sure he could deal with those early exchanges vs HW a power puncher. He would have to evade & gas out his opponents at HW & hope to catch them in the later rounds.

The most intriguing fight for Jon next, is 205 phenom Johnny Walker, I think Jones could beat him if he gets past that first round fury from Walker, but it would still be an interesting fight.
Jon is the GOAT. And that is his biggest problem. Several fights ago he evolved his style and it was a move for the worse, but he is so good he wins anyway. He fell in love with that front leg sidekick and all of those spinning kick attacks. He has the longest reach in the 205 division and yet he stopped throwing jabs and pretty much stopped boxing all together. That has diminished him as a fighter for sure.

But the fact he fought a very dangerous guy on the feet and did not attempt a single takedown is arrogance and poor coaching. Jon has elite MMA wrestling and his elbows from full guard should keep people up at night.

His overwhelming athleticism and talent allow him to fight a horrible game plan against the best in the division and still stay unbeaten.
 
Jon is the GOAT. And that is his biggest problem. Several fights ago he evolved his style and it was a move for the worse, but he is so good he wins anyway. He fell in love with that front leg sidekick and all of those spinning kick attacks. He has the longest reach in the 205 division and yet he stopped throwing jabs and pretty much stopped boxing all together. That has diminished him as a fighter for sure.

But the fact he fought a very dangerous guy on the feet and did not attempt a single takedown is arrogance and poor coaching. Jon has elite MMA wrestling and his elbows from full guard should keep people up at night.

His overwhelming athleticism and talent allow him to fight a horrible game plan against the best in the division and still stay unbeaten.
Agree 100%.

Those leg kicks were deadly for Jon vs multiple fighters, he used that strategy as his base offensive attack because most of the guys he fought, had no answer for it & it allowed to dominate fights by slowly breaking down his opponents & taking them to the ground while not taking much damage in return.

I think after the first brawl with Gustafson, he decided he was not going to allow anybody to get close enough to box & hit him in the face/head like that again.

These last few fights, he's not really attacking anymore, he's taking the Mayweather route of strike, evade & score his way to victory. If he can't get a head kick KO like he did vs Cormier, then he's gonna methodically strike until his opponent is worn down, then take'em to the floor like he did vs St Preux, Gus (pt2) & Anthony Smith.

He didn't go for a takedown vs Santos because he felt if he would've came in for a double leg or tried to pin him to the cage that would be too close & Santos could get a surprise KO shot. He was basically respecting Santos's power, which was a mistake imo because Thiago was clearly hurt after the 2nd round & was basically a wounded deer out there.

Jones used to win with the total package of sheer power, athleticism, wrestling & high fight IQ. Now he just wins with smart fight strategy & doesn't use his power anymore, because it's either gone or he honestly doesn't feel he needs to.

He's still no doubt the greatest fighter UFC history IMO, but I hope to see him get back to the days where he used to absolutely kill his opponents.
 
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I thought Askren would get a chance to take to the ground & make it a grappling match...

Guess not! Lol... But yeah Askren almost got KO'd vs Lawler but was able to pull out of it & withstood the barrage long enough to get Lawler in for a Bulldog.

But Askren has absolutely NO CHIN whatsoever, he cannot defend strikes at all. He's not good enough to be in the octagon with high level strikers, he needs to go back to One or Bellator, because he's just a wrestler with no stand up game at all.
I agree with you here. Being a one dimensional fighter in today's UFC is a death sentence. Look at what happened to Royce Gracie when he came back to fight Matt Hughes. The term MMA was initially in reference to a mixed bag of martial arts fighting each other. Boxer vs Wrester, Karate vs kickboxing, etc. Nowadays, MMA has almost become its own martial art. Guys need to train everything from punches, kicks, elbows, knees, wrestling, jiu-jitsu to be competitive, obviously always having a base art that is their bread and butter.

I don't think the Maia comparison is correct though. Demian Maia is a world class Jiu-Jitsu artist. Its a different game, a different squeeze and he still couldn't submit Masvidal. Askren is a pure wrestler. His go to move most of the time is the double leg and he just lays on people for rounds and sometimes puts together a little bit of ground and pound and can put together some basic chokes. All in all, I am happy as **** that our 305 native got the brutal knockout over that Iowa farm boy/Wisconsin cheese curd Ben Askren. I can't stand how condescending he is and how he thought he was above everyone somehow. The guy considers himself to be highly intellectual and witty and it got him knocked out in the most brutal fashion and was on the wrong side of a UFC record tonight. Maybe a little less talking and a little more mitt work for him.
 
Agree 100%.

Those leg kicks were deadly for Jon vs multiple fighters, he used that strategy as his base offensive attack because most of the guys he fought, had no answer for it & it allowed to dominate fights by slowly breaking down his opponents & taking them to the ground while not taking much damage in return.

I think after the first brawl with Gustafson, he decided he was not going to allow anybody to get close enough to box & hit him in the face/head like that again.

These last few fights, he's not really attacking anymore, he's taking the Mayweather route of strike, evade & score his way to victory. If he can't get a head kick KO like he did vs Cormier, then he's gonna methodically strike until his opponent is worn down, then take'em to the floor like he did vs St Preux, Gus (pt2) & Anthony Smith.

He didn't go for a takedown vs Santos because he felt if he would've came in for a double leg or tried to pin him to the cage that would be too close & Santos could get a surprise KO shot. He was basically respecting Santos's power, which was a mistake imo because Thiago was clearly hurt after the 2nd round & was basically a wounded deer out there.

Jones used to win with the total package of sheer power, athleticism, wrestling & high fight IQ. Now he just wins with smart fight strategy & doesn't use his power anymore, because it's either gone or he honestly doesn't feel he needs to.

He's still no doubt the greatest fighter UFC history IMO, but I hope to see him get back to the days where he used to absolutely kill his opponents.

I don't think someone who tested dirty for roids can be called the GOAT. Pound for pound GOAT has to be St Pierre, followed by Mighty Mouse. When it's all said and done, I think Khabib gets on Mt Rushmore too. He'd rather gut himself than dishonor his family and Dagestan by cheating.
 
I don't think someone who tested dirty for roids can be called the GOAT. Pound for pound GOAT has to be St Pierre, followed by Mighty Mouse. When it's all said and done, I think Khabib gets on Mt Rushmore too. He'd rather gut himself than dishonor his family and Dagestan by cheating.
A lot of fighters have used PED's doesn't diminish how great they are.

Jones is the GOAT, idgaf about Pictograms.
 
Rogan is ***tarded.... ACL was blown in the in 2nd no doubt... Jones looked like ****...
 
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A lot of fighters have used PED's doesn't diminish how great they are.

Jones is the GOAT, idgaf about Pictograms.

It does diminish how great they are. There is a vast, vast difference between an all time great like Anderson Silva juicing near the end of his career and Jones doing it in his prime. Silva had already cemented his legacy long before, his juicing didn't happen when he was dominating the division. He was trying to get a few extra years out his body, but drugs can only do so much. It tainted his legacy a little but I don't think anyone believes Silva was cheating when he won all those fights.

Jones, on the other hand, was juicing during the prime of his career and was on roids when he fought Cormier. Cormier spent years an Olympic wrestler with some of the strictest drug testing in the world and never tested positive. He was clean, guaranteed. When he fought Jones, Jones was cheating. Hence Jones was stripped of the title, and it was given back to Cormier. Getting stripped of a title for cheating doesn't diminish him? If Jones could have easily won without the juice, then why did he do it? Because he needed an edge to beat Cormier. A fighter can't be considered the GOAT when he had to resort to cheating to defeat his toughest opponents.
 
It does diminish how great they are. There is a vast, vast difference between an all time great like Anderson Silva juicing near the end of his career and Jones doing it in his prime. Silva had already cemented his legacy long before, his juicing didn't happen when he was dominating the division. He was trying to get a few extra years out his body, but drugs can only do so much. It tainted his legacy a little but I don't think anyone believes Silva was cheating when he won all those fights.

Jones, on the other hand, was juicing during the prime of his career and was on roids when he fought Cormier. Cormier spent years an Olympic wrestler with some of the strictest drug testing in the world and never tested positive. He was clean, guaranteed. When he fought Jones, Jones was cheating. Hence Jones was stripped of the title, and it was given back to Cormier. Getting stripped of a title for cheating doesn't diminish him? If Jones could have easily won without the juice, then why did he do it? Because he needed an edge to beat Cormier. A fighter can't be considered the GOAT when he had to resort to cheating to defeat his toughest opponents.
Cormier's carrying about 20 extra lbs, of course he doesn't care enough to take PEDS, he can't even stay on a diet!

That Masvidal KO was fantastic, so was his reaction immediately afterwards. A little karma for Askren as I thought he was KO'd in the Lawler fight and definitely didn't choke Lawler into unconsciousness.

Rockhold needs to quit and concentrate on his modelling - that's his third viscous knockout in recent memory. He has all the tools to be a superstar, but refuses to improve his boxing. No chin in the world is going to withstand a free shot from a LWH when you're just standing there.
 
I agree with you here. Being a one dimensional fighter in today's UFC is a death sentence. Look at what happened to Royce Gracie when he came back to fight Matt Hughes. The term MMA was initially in reference to a mixed bag of martial arts fighting each other. Boxer vs Wrester, Karate vs kickboxing, etc. Nowadays, MMA has almost become its own martial art. Guys need to train everything from punches, kicks, elbows, knees, wrestling, jiu-jitsu to be competitive, obviously always having a base art that is their bread and butter.

I don't think the Maia comparison is correct though. Demian Maia is a world class Jiu-Jitsu artist. Its a different game, a different squeeze and he still couldn't submit Masvidal. Askren is a pure wrestler. His go to move most of the time is the double leg and he just lays on people for rounds and sometimes puts together a little bit of ground and pound and can put together some basic chokes. All in all, I am happy as **** that our 305 native got the brutal knockout over that Iowa farm boy/Wisconsin cheese curd Ben Askren. I can't stand how condescending he is and how he thought he was above everyone somehow. The guy considers himself to be highly intellectual and witty and it got him knocked out in the most brutal fashion and was on the wrong side of a UFC record tonight. Maybe a little less talking and a little more mitt work for him.

I agree with your main point, but comparing Royce to Askren is ridiculous.

Royce was good when he first started because he was beating up on bums who had never even heard of an armbar. The guy fought like journeyman boxer in his first match who was wearing a boxing glove. The guy expected it to be some sort of WWE style event and was asking Royce not to hurt him before he even stepped in the cage. All of his early fights were people that were hand picked to make BJJ look like the greatest martial art on the planet.

Royce wasn't even the best BJJ guy in his family let alone the world.

Askren is hands down the best folk style wrestler in MMA period. Folk style ground game schits on Greco and Freestyle ground game that is why when he gets on top of people and "lays on them" it is rare to see someone get back up without a ref standing them back up. If this was a real fight with no rounds being able to take someone down and hold them down with some GnP until they tired themselves out is a great tactic. It may look boring to people who have never wrestled before, but if you want to just see aggressiveness you can tune into the BKB championship.

That being said the guy is going to need to learn some striking.
 
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It does diminish how great they are. There is a vast, vast difference between an all time great like Anderson Silva juicing near the end of his career and Jones doing it in his prime. Silva had already cemented his legacy long before, his juicing didn't happen when he was dominating the division. He was trying to get a few extra years out his body, but drugs can only do so much. It tainted his legacy a little but I don't think anyone believes Silva was cheating when he won all those fights.

Jones, on the other hand, was juicing during the prime of his career and was on roids when he fought Cormier. Cormier spent years an Olympic wrestler with some of the strictest drug testing in the world and never tested positive. He was clean, guaranteed. When he fought Jones, Jones was cheating. Hence Jones was stripped of the title, and it was given back to Cormier. Getting stripped of a title for cheating doesn't diminish him? If Jones could have easily won without the juice, then why did he do it? Because he needed an edge to beat Cormier. A fighter can't be considered the GOAT when he had to resort to cheating to defeat his toughest opponents.

I am not saying Cormier ever juiced, but I have trained around Oly guys and people who have coached Oly guys. Tons of them are on juice. You just need to cycle off what can be detected during the "at risk period". They can test you whenever you want, but 99.9% of drug tests are administered in certain windows that all the wrestlers know about.
 
Cormier's carrying about 20 extra lbs, of course he doesn't care enough to take PEDS, he can't even stay on a diet!

That Masvidal KO was fantastic, so was his reaction immediately afterwards. A little karma for Askren as I thought he was KO'd in the Lawler fight and definitely didn't choke Lawler into unconsciousness.

Rockhold needs to quit and concentrate on his modelling - that's his third viscous knockout in recent memory. He has all the tools to be a superstar, but refuses to improve his boxing. No chin in the world is going to withstand a free shot from a LWH when you're just standing there.

I assume your just joking, but tons of guys will juice while not staying on a strict diet.

Cormier just hates cutting because of all the damage cutting did to his body during his wrestling days. He even ended up with kidney failure because of his massive weight cuts. Now he refuses to even do "minor healthy cuts" to get to a reasonable weight.
 
It does diminish how great they are. There is a vast, vast difference between an all time great like Anderson Silva juicing near the end of his career and Jones doing it in his prime. Silva had already cemented his legacy long before, his juicing didn't happen when he was dominating the division. He was trying to get a few extra years out his body, but drugs can only do so much. It tainted his legacy a little but I don't think anyone believes Silva was cheating when he won all those fights.

Jones, on the other hand, was juicing during the prime of his career and was on roids when he fought Cormier. Cormier spent years an Olympic wrestler with some of the strictest drug testing in the world and never tested positive. He was clean, guaranteed. When he fought Jones, Jones was cheating. Hence Jones was stripped of the title, and it was given back to Cormier. Getting stripped of a title for cheating doesn't diminish him? If Jones could have easily won without the juice, then why did he do it? Because he needed an edge to beat Cormier. A fighter can't be considered the GOAT when he had to resort to cheating to defeat his toughest opponents.
Jones & Cormier fought twice & Jones dominated him both times with or without PED's.

They could fight 5 more times & Jones would win every time because he's simply a better fighter. Styles make fights & Jones is just a bad matchup for Cormier because Jones insane reach advantage doesn't allow for a smaller slower Cormier to push forward & get inside, he drops his hands & leaves himself vulnerable to getting his head kicked off his shoulders.

People just don't like Jones as a person so they scream about PED's but even in his clean fights he's still the most dominant fighter in the UFC. It's the Barry Bonds argument all over again, Bonds up until the 2000 season was a HOF'er & the best baseball player in the MLB before he ever used any PED's, but because he got caught & others didn't people act as if that erases all he accomplished before he used anything & it doesn't.

Jones is a great fighter whether you hate him or not, it cannot be denied regardless of what he did or didn't use.
 
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Jones & Cormier fought twice & Jones dominated him both times with or without PED's.

They could fight 5 more times & Jones would win every time because he's simply a better fighter. Styles make fights & Jones is just a bad matchup for Cormier because Jones insane reach advantage doesn't allow for a smaller slower Cormier to push forward & get inside, he drops his hands & leaves himself vulnerable to getting his head kicked off his shoulders.

People just don't like Jones as a person so they scream about PED's but even in his clean fights he's still the most dominant fighter in the UFC. It's the Barry Bonds argument all over again, Bonds up until the 2000 season was a HOF'er & the best baseball player in the MLB before he ever used any PED's, but because he got caught & others didn't people act as if that erases all he accomplished before he used anything & it doesn't.

Jones is a great fighter whether you hate him or not, it cannot be denied regardless of what he did or didn't use.

The PED argument is straight BS too. Everyone thinks only the cheating fighters get caught until they walk into a camp that actually produces UFC, Bellator, etc. fighters. Then they realize PED use is FAR more rampant than most would think.
 
I don't think someone who tested dirty for roids can be called the GOAT. Pound for pound GOAT has to be St Pierre, followed by Mighty Mouse. When it's all said and done, I think Khabib gets on Mt Rushmore too. He'd rather gut himself than dishonor his family and Dagestan by cheating.

Go to the Wat in NYC and tell people about how GSP is the GOAT because he never juiced up. You will get laughed out of the gym.
 
Jones & Cormier fought twice & Jones dominated him both times with or without PED's.

They could fight 5 more times & Jones would win every time because he's simply a better fighter. Styles make fights & Jones is just a bad matchup for Cormier because Jones insane reach advantage doesn't allow for a smaller slower Cormier to push forward & get inside, he drops his hands & leaves himself vulnerable to getting his head kicked off his shoulders.

People just don't like Jones as a person so they scream about PED's but even in his clean fights he's still the most dominant fighter in the UFC. It's the Barry Bonds argument all over again, Bonds up until the 2000 season was a HOF'er & the best baseball player in the MLB before he ever used any PED's, but because he got caught & others didn't people act as if that erases all he accomplished before he used anything & it doesn't.

Jones is a great fighter whether you hate him or not, it cannot be denied regardless of what he did or didn't use.

I still think Jones beats DC, but fighting DC at heavyweight is going to be a different fight. DC is going to come in with more power and feeling better without the cut. I'm a big Bones fan...but those two fights against DC where he got popped after the fact not only tarnishes HIS legacy, but DCs as well, and DC is a dude that genuinely cares about his.

Your example of Bonds is pretty poor...because he's an all-time great that tarnished his legacy because of PED use. It doesn't erase anything, but it does smear the record book.
 
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